Ima going to log in here as an Osage. We never surrendered. We were cheated like all NA's were. The Cherokee were mentioned here, after Jackson screwed the Cherokee over they were awarded some of the Osage homeland. What they had to endure before they were granted my tribes lands is too horrid for our schools to teach.
The Osage History should remind some that some of us remember the lies.
what the hell ever happened to 'free choice'?
it is the law that we must change - no choice.
yet look at the new disaster this creates!
corporations deal with chemical pollutants. You may view these laws as an 'intrusion', I view them as an essential protection for the future generations
I'll toss this one out there, these laws are circumvented in the real world of Construction. Here in the US anyways, the dollar rules, everyone has their price. I'll not relate my personal history with rules being bent for $$$.
One needs to trust in government to insure anarchy dosent reign, but damn...how optimistic can we be?
Seriously...I want proof.
what the hell ever happened to 'free choice'?
it is the law that we must change - no choice.
yet look at the new disaster this creates!
Besides being a foul mouthed Drunk.
That stance is more common than many here would admit I suspect.
I out myself and claim to be another "foul, mouth drunk".
That of course dosen't explain why any one here would debate any of this nonsense that dosen't
apply to this thread.
Sorry Amicus..Whitey will throw you in jail for that..LOL!
Yeah, but at least I'd be there for a reason. Not like the blacks, hispanics and poor whites that couldn't afford attorneys.
This gives me a viable reason to slit a JW throat...right?
How much can a victim of genocide take?
what the hell ever happened to 'free choice'?
it is the law that we must change - no choice.
yet look at the new disaster this creates!
Six,
Dammit, when can we find a consensus to change what we know is wrong?
Really, honestly...can we really change our world for the better? I'm there if it's feasible, I'm a bit disgruntled with the US record...back to at least early 18?? that is.
I welcome a new thread, "The optimum US government".
what the hell ever happened to 'free choice'?
it is the law that we must change - no choice.
yet look at the new disaster this creates!
Sheesh,
I think that you took the initial post that we were trying to discuss out of context, Hillary_Step. I understand why you viewed it as a discussion of "right of government vs anarchy" as opposed to discussion of the law requiring cfl lighting. Reread the opening post.
All of this garbage that has followed is a total turn off to me. Incessant bickering is ultimately worthless.
what the hell ever happened to 'free choice'?
it is the law that we must change - no choice.
yet look at the new disaster this creates!
Government, like the law, works on the reality of approximation, not perfection, but with all respect, this has nothing to do with the point.
The fact is that it is necessary for responsible Government to 'intrude' into peoples personal choices over numerous matters. That it might get some of its mandates wrong some of the time is a given, but this does not undermine the principle of the necessity of government intervention in any way. If CFL bulbs better serve the community, as they do, then it would be irresponsible for them not to mandate their use.
It seems to me that the US is terrified of anything that might even remotely be interpreted as 'socialism' with the same rationality that they might view witches in Salem.
Once again, I agree. But, your statement dosen't address the subject of the discussion here.
We're not talking about the "right" of government to pass legislation. We're discussing if this piece of legislation will ultimately be beneficial or eventually be viewed as a fatally flawed piece of legislation.
I understand your overview. I'm probably closer to a socialist than a capitalist if I were to take the time to sort out my personal views. I'm more a realist than either though. I find that I go for the grey, when I can. Compromise is what makes representation work. Well, in my bloated country anyways.
The "duty of governments to pass beneficial laws" discussion is for another thread though. This thread is about CFL's.
I haven't changed my stance on that topic. Sell me, I'll listen.
what the hell ever happened to 'free choice'?
it is the law that we must change - no choice.
yet look at the new disaster this creates!
You can buy CFLs that are the same size as incandescent.
Where? I've never seen a CFL that isn't medium base. If, the major light manufacturers are making other base configuerations, why aren't they available now? It's possible to make other configuerations of course, but why not ease into this technology rather than demanding it?
And by 2016, there will probably be good LED replacements for both.
When those LED replacements are available I'm with you. That isn't the only option either, but this is like beating the donkey to move faster rather than the old carrot on a stick.
my jw brother in law is one the phone with me right now.
when it rains it pours when it comes to sorrow.
Mountain,
Heh, is this the point when I link Leslie West and Mountain's "Missippi Queen"?
You and your brothers tastes in music were in sync with ours. The Winter brothers were always a blast in concert. What were some of your favourites?
