AMNESIAN

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Posts by AMNESIAN

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  13

  Making a Difference!

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some may ask themselves why they post on forums such as this one.

  they may wonder what compels them to do so.

  you may wonder what causes others to keep at this so frequently.

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  AMNESIAN

  So, the other day at BRCI

  Yet another acronym. What is BRCI, please?

  -AMNESIAN
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  19

  WT June 1, 2001 (part II)

  by Defender in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the second article of discussion in this issue is titled: "moving ahead to final victory!".

  the article starts to talk about christs enthronement as king and in paragraph one, along with an illustration of crowned jesus riding on a white horse, it states: "we today, have clear evidence that this foretold enthronement took place in 1914.. since watchtower article discussions are always a one way dialogue, where the society speaks and the rank and file just listens, it is easy to make assertions.

  in a normal two way dialogue, when one says "i have clear evidence" for something, the other party will not just nod his head in agreement, but would rather demand to know and see what this clear evidence is and would want to proceed and examine it thoroughly.

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  AMNESIAN

  Outstanding. Will someone point me to part one or bring it up top?

  Thanks.

  -AMNESIAN-
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  10

  Soooo... what about those Lakers....

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  they won.

  not that i care (don't 'do' sports anymore since the tix are priced so way out of my 'league' that i am 'silently' protesting...).

  but, i thought it might be an interesting 'topic' for some.

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  AMNESIAN

  Past and current losers continue to make excuses:

  You mean the refs won for the Fakers. Everyone knows who the real MVP is. Go 76ers. Allen Iverson 4eva.

  Doesn't it seem like Shaq gets away with murder under the basket? I am a Pacers fan and couldn't believe the way he was allowed to shove Rick Smits around last year in the Finals.

  <cough> Jealousy. <cough> Envy? Tsk tsk. Such predictably pathetic whining on the part of the embittered vanquished. Call it however you need to to deal with your pain, fellas, but you might as well settle in for the ride; the decade's young and so are Shaquille, Kobe, Derek, and Rick.

  -AMNESIAN-
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  27

  Why are JW women so loyal to the Borg?

  by beroea in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why are jw women so loyal to the borg?.

  during the last 12 year i have been doing a lot of research about mainly the chronology of jw about the year 1914. my family are still in and very active and i serve still as elder.

  my research has make me dropped the whole chronology about the year 1914 and also the authorities of dfs/gb.

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  AMNESIAN

  Borea,

  I recall your posts from H20 when it seemed your "journey" was just beginning. You sound like you have made up your mind to leave if your family comes out, too. How do you continue in your position as an elder with all of its "teaching" and the entire package that makes up the job of one "taking the lead"? Doesn't your wife (and children) still watch you standing before the congregation spouting stuff that, in private, you claim to no longer believe? I would imagine that you have her quite confused with your mixed messages.

  Anyway, if you don't mind saying, what brought you to the point of starting to research things even while you still continued as an elder? What made you start to question things?

  AMNESIAN
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  42

  Notes from 2001 District Conv.---Friday

  by LostMyReligion in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here are a few notes i took at the friday session of the 2001 "teachers of god's word" district convention.

  i thought i would share these upbuilding theocratic point with my new friends, along with my thoughts as i was listening to the program.

  1st instruction of the day: sing loudly and listen to the prayer!

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  AMNESIAN

  Lovingkindness wrote:

  Remember the Watchtower article "Can You Be True To God Yet Hide The Facts?" ? Well, the WTS has to submit to all the expectations they wrote concerning the other Churches. In the article they wrote and I quote some of it:

  " What results when a lie is let go unchallenged? Does not silence help the lie to pass as truth, to have freer sway to influence many, perhaps to their serious harm? When persons are in great danger from a source that they do not suspect or are being misled by those they consider their friends, is it an unkindness to warn them? They may prefer not to believe the warning. They may even resent it. But does that free one from the moral responsibility to give that warning? If you are among those seeking to be faithful to God, the issues these questions raise are vital for you today. Why? because God's servants in every period of history have had to face up to the challenges these issues present. They have had to expose falsehood and wrongdoing and warn people of dangers and deception" .... " in the interest of pure worship"......." It would have been far easier to keep silent or say only what people wanted to hear. But faithfulness to God and love of neighbor moved them to speak. They realized better is a revealed reproof than a concealed love."

  Please provide the issue date and page number of Watchtower quotes.

  AMNESIAN
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  82

  Has anyone felt like leaving God altogether?

  by lookingnow22 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know that the answer is yes, but it would help me to hear your sentiments on this.

  .

  after you decided that the wbts, and thus jw's were not god's chosen earthly organization did you feel like you wanted to leave and forget god altogether?.

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  AMNESIAN

  Lookingnow asked:

  I know that the answer is yes, but it would help me to hear your sentiments on this. After you decided that the WBTS, and thus JW's were not God's chosen earthly organization did you feel like you wanted to leave and forget God altogether?

  I am struggling mightily with this of late. I have not altogether physically departed the organization but my heart is far far removed from it. I don't want to "leave" Jehovah as well and yet I feel so bitterly betrayed by the organization and angry with Jehovah that I have not found a way to pray to him with any constancy or to seek Him and his guidance in my life in these difficult days. I cannot come to a satisfactory answer as to why He would have allowed me and loved ones to be so deceived by an organization that has caused so much irreversible damage and despair in my family. Although I have unshakeable faith that Jehovah exists, my trust and confidence is shattered that He cares anything about me personally or my family. (I can't tell you how hard it is for me to believe I just admitted that. I usually can't and don't, even to myself.)

  My dear spouse and a close friend who have both also begun to have serious doubts and misgivings about the WBTS and GB still, however, manage to enjoy a fierce assurance of God's love. I regret deeply that I have begun to seriously waver in such conviction.

  So I, too, am anxious to hear the responses others make to this inquiry.

  AMNESIAN - after swallowing so many lies, now the forgetful hearer
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  19

  Dear Brother "You Know"

  by AMNESIAN in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  brother, please, if you would, inform as to exactly what your genuine view is of the wbts and, particularly, the gb in relation to bible prophecy, christianity, and its self-professed role as the so-called "fds" and sole spokesman for jehovah?

  much of what you post (or, at least, the posts i've read) is clearly at tremendous odds with their published teachings, yet, on its face, your position seems to be as one of their staunchest defenders/supporters.

  i don't wish to in any way ridicule you ---there's a bit too much of that around here (from you included!

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  AMNESIAN

  Brother, please, if you would, inform as to exactly what your genuine view is of the WBTS and, particularly, the GB in relation to Bible prophecy, Christianity, and its self-professed role as the so-called "fds" and sole spokesman for Jehovah? Much of what you post (or, at least, the posts I've read) is clearly at tremendous odds with their published teachings, yet, on its face, your position seems to be as one of their staunchest defenders/supporters. I don't get it!

  I don't wish to in any way ridicule you ---there's a bit too much of that around here (from you included!) toward the dissenting opinion that I personally find very distasteful and similar to WBTS tactics--- but am genuinely interested in just exactly what it is you truly believe and teach. It obviously is not what the Society teaches. Take no offense, but are you really a believing, practicing Jehovah's Witness, who, in good conscience, teaches others what has become such an embarrassingly mangled mish-mash of shifting, seriously eroded doctrine and baffle-'em-with-bullsh*t "new light" ?

  If so, how do you reconcile the grievous errors, lies, deceptions, and injustices it/they continue to themselves perpetrate, or allow to be perpetrated, against its trusting, blinded membership --- of whom I have been a part now 29 years, my spouse, 45 years--- in the name of Jehovah and Jesus? Respectfully, how is it your confidence in them has not been completely undone as to their claim to being God's spirit-directed organization or, even, as to their having any spiritual integrity whatsoever whether spirit-directed or not?

  I ask you because you seem, for the most part, fairly lucid and thoughtful (unless you, like "Brother" Fredhall, is having us on. He is so clearly not what he would have this audience believe that I know better than to take him seriously.) You, otoh, seem quite serious, thus posing quite a different dilemma for me that I sincerely would like to try to sort out. Mostly for personal reasons.

  I'd sincerely appreciate your candid response and ask forgiveness if you've answered these questions in a previous post. I'm sporadically in and out of here.

  Thanks.

  AMNESIAN - after swallowing so many lies, now the forgetful hearer
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  31

  WTBTS Monitoring Discussion Boards??????

  by normie67 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just curious many say that the org monitors dbs, but anybody have concrete proof of this??

  oh by the way at the recent ca dbs were mentioned from the platform!!!

  the thought was "some jws were visting jehovahs witness discusssion boards and trying to correspond with some"...might not be exactly what was said(not an actual quote)...they mentioned put a doubt in your mind and start questioning your beliefs!!!

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  AMNESIAN

  Gopher wrote:

  ::Welcome to the board! Enjoyed your post.

  You're very kind. Thank you.

  ::I hope you will share you story with us (if you haven't already done so elsewhere). I'm sure you have something interesting to tell after nearly 3 decades of pounding the pavement.

  Indeed. The truth is I haven't worked up the emotional energy to even fully acknowledge "my story" to myself, much less share it. Perhaps in time.

  ::BTW, love your moniker "Amnesian". ROFLOL! It takes the cake for creativity.

  Believe me, it succinctly sums up *my* "present truth." =^) Thanks again.

  AMNESIAN, reaching out for the office of forgetful hearer after 29 years of regretful listening
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  31

  WTBTS Monitoring Discussion Boards??????

  by normie67 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just curious many say that the org monitors dbs, but anybody have concrete proof of this??

  oh by the way at the recent ca dbs were mentioned from the platform!!!

  the thought was "some jws were visting jehovahs witness discusssion boards and trying to correspond with some"...might not be exactly what was said(not an actual quote)...they mentioned put a doubt in your mind and start questioning your beliefs!!!

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  AMNESIAN

  Thirdson wrote:

  ::..."some" (WTS for a huge amount)

  "Fraid I got nothing to add on-topic to this thread. I just *had* to post a reaction to the above spot on observation.

  Lol! I've often wondered how many of us JWs *get it* when the Society uses terms such as "some," "a few," "occasionally," etc., with the manipulative intent of casting some less-than-flattering-to-the-organization's-meticulously-crafted-image "admission" into a barely significant, not-even-worth-mentioning light. It automatically conveys just the opposite impression among those with a "discerning" ear when you recognize their aversion to full (or any!) disclosure. You know darn well that trees are not being sacrificed on the WBTS altar at the present rate in order to dispense "food" for merely "some," "a few," and "occasional[ly]" publisher[s]/situation!

  -AMNESIAN, a forgetful hearer, sadly longing to forget much of the last 29 years...
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  15

  Seek Jehovah or His Organisation?

  by ozziepost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  today's watchtower study (feb 15, p17) seeks to reassure jws that jehovah will take action against all opposers to the wtbts.. it states: "unscrupulous men slander jehovah's witnesses, branding them a 'dangerous cult'.

  god is aware of their actions-and these will not go unpunished.

  "(para 11).

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  AMNESIAN

  Ozzie wrote:

  >>Today's Watchtower Study (Feb 15, p17):

  >>Jehovah's witnesses R&F are exhorted to remain faithful and to 'seek Jehovah'. How? Paragraph 5 states that "'Seeking Jehovah' today involves developing and maintaining a warm personal relationship with him in association with his earthly organisation."

  >>A similar point is repeated in paragraph 19 which states; "...by displaying a meek, submissive attitude toward God and his arrangements for salvation?"

  >>This does not seem to 'gel' with Jesus, words recorded at John 17:3"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge (or, "knowing you") the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."

  Nor does it gel with the very theme text on which this study article claims to be based. Zephaniah's prophecy states quite simply the requirements for salvation: "Seek Jehovah...Seek righteousness, seek meekness." Period.

  >>The question may be asked "If salvation resulted from knowing Jehovah and Jesus in the first century and this was the good news or gospel, and nothing else, why is that not sufficient in the 21st century?"

  And conversely, the question may be asked "If salvation in the first century resulted from a warm personal relationship with Jehovah *'in association with his earthly organization'* and this was the good news Jesus and his disciples preached, why was there never any such mention anywhere in any of the gospels for those of us seeking in this 21st century?"

  >>It is not explained with scripture references in the Watchtower article how the organisation is linked to salvation.

  Not in this article nor any other that I've ever read. Salvation's link to association with the organization is always adamantly asserted with never an unambiguous scriptural citation ever provided in support.

  >>Also, not explained, are the "arrangements for salvation" that it's necessary to show submission to. Could this be 'code' for the organisation again?

  I hilite my mag in two different colors. Light green for that with which I have no problem, i.e., am satisfied with the scriptural support. I use my flourescent yellow for the fishy stuff and that which is pure moonshine. The "in association..." and the "arrangements for salvation" are two insertions I hilited bright yellow in this article. They were just such glaringly spurious assertions.

  >>Did anyone else come away from today's Watchtower Study feeling that the scriptural backing for these statements was lacking?

  I certainly did. I am very offended by the manipulation and tampering the WBTS shamelessly and arrogantly passes off as "food at the proper time."

  I've got editorial notations all over the margins of this article. I found myself, during the meeting, looking around, appalled, at so many trusting and decent and humble folks in the KH grazing through the WS
  Q&A, offering up their scripted "fruit of the lips" seemingly semi-conscious after the "special" talk. I did manage to chuckle once, though, at one poor young brother. He mouths the organization-speak so effortlessly, and unthinkingly, that he submitted the irreconcilable pairing of two of our favorites when he responded to one question, toward the end of the lesson (presumably to get his one "comment" in before the bell rang) with "Jehovah's day will come quickly, in His own due time."

  While on the subject, I had a coupla other problem with this article in addition to the two already referenced by ozzie.

  Under the sub-heading "Woe to Insolent Wrongdoers", par 16 states:

  "Says Zephaniah 3:1,2: 'Woe to her that is rebelling and polluting
  herself, the oppressive city! She did not listen to a voice; she did not accept discipline. In Jehovah she did not trust. To her God she did not draw near.' How tragic that Jehovah's efforts to discipline
  *his people* went unheeded!"

  The article is clear, at this point, that this denunciation is directed at Jehovah's own people, Judah and Jerusalem. The paragraph continues:

  "Deplorable, indeed, was the ruthlessness of the princes, nobles, and judges. Zephaniah decried the shamelessness of the religious leaders, saying: 'Her prophets were insolent, were men of treachery. Her priests themselves profaned what was holy; they did violence to the law.'" (Zephaniah 1:3,4)

  Strong condemnation of God's own people, no? The question for par 16,
  though, amazingly, asks "What did Zephaniah's prophecy say about Judah's princes and religious leaders, and why do these words fit *Christendom*?"!

  The answer?

  Par 16 continues: "How well those words fit the situation of Christendom's prophets and priests today!"

  So who exactly represent God's "own" people today? According to this Watchtower, it is Christendom who has rejected Jehovah's efforts to discipline "her" and, thereby, fullfill Zephaniah's prophetic judgements today. But, if that's true, that would make "her" God's "own people" today. But we know that JWs, of whom I am one, claim that they are God's "own people." How can we claim to be God's only "own people" when the scriptures promise and describe wonderful blessings in store for the faithful but avoid applying the denunciations that are to come to God's "own people"? They are trying to have it both ways, as usual.

  One last take on yesterday's WS. Par 17 states:

  "Jehovah considerately warned his ancient people regarding the action he was about to take. He sent his servants the prophets---Zephaniah and Jeremiah, among others---to urge the people to repent."

  Zephaniah and Jeremiah and the other prophets warned Jehovah's own people, right? And if JWs represent Jehovah's people today, why does par 17 make the following modern-day application?

  "A similar waringing is being sounded at this time. If you are a publisher of the good news, you are having a share in this *warning work*. Keep on declaring the good news without letup! Whether the people listen or not, your ministry is a success from God's standpoint as long as you are carrying it out faithfully; you have no need for shame as you do God's work with zeal."

  How can the preaching work being done today by JWs toward all non-JWs parallel the warning work Jehovah's ancient prophets did among and toward his own worshippers and religious leaders?

  >>Wishing they would be honest,

  As do so many of us who are still, for various reason, trapped between the lie and the half-truth and not "encouraged" by it.

  Thanks for your post. Obviously, it resonated.