Posts by AMNESIAN

31

Who is Robert Johnson and his WTS/UN Connection

by hawkaw in

someone very nice (alan f) passed this on to me late friday and i did not have the opportunity to pass it on to you.. if any of you guys have been following my un thread (which is now very tough to find thanks to the changes in the board) you may have noticed the 1994 un directory.

it provided three names on page 261 that were linked with the wts's name.

one person was w. l. barry (at the time he was the vice president).

AMNESIAN

Listen Amensian,
I was out of line. You are right I should wait and conduct a proper investigation of the "individual" prior to slaming him anymore. Much like what I did with the blood doctrine that clearly shows there is culpable homicide going on here. Who is responsible. I don't know but I know it is hurting this organization and its members.

My own horror knows no bounds at the thought that I at one time held the no-blood doctrine as scriptural. I often wonder what accountability any of us misguided souls may suffer before Jehovah for having taught and ensnared others, to say nothing of the deaths to which such teachings have contributed as a result of the WTS's botched interpretation and criminal arrogance. Are there some of the heavyweights in Brooklyn who know this doctrine is in error and still support it? It's nearly unfathomable and yet most of what I've come to learn about this organization is unfathomable.

One would think that Mr. Johnston must have known the score when he signed up as the alternative representative and he may have thought it just wasn't a big deal even though 1,000s in Malawi Africa may seem to differ. But you are right. One must wait and get all the facts prior to unleashing a serious accusation.

RP is very bright/thoughtful and, even in defense of the person I recall him to be, I cannot seriously construct any scenario whereby he was not fully cognizant of the extreme seriousness such a course represents. Though it certainly places him in no better or exonerating light, I would more easily wonder if he has not found himself---older and with far fewer options than even 10 years ago--- promoted to a place wherein he's succumbed to deafening fears and insecurity that, of necessity, drown out the bellow of his conscience. I don't know. Like I said above, I've often wondered how the man I perceived, knowing now what he must surely know, can still be involved with this organization.

I apologize to you and the board for sounding "strawman". I should have waited, like you said for the facts of this specific individual prior to slaming him.
As for simple black and white thinking. No I don't think in black and white. Never have. Sometimes I just don't have a lot of time to give or read things like last nights' post or this morning's post - Yet it is still no excuse as to what I said. But I am willing to listen. If I make a mistake I will admit it as I have here. I have listened to you and agree.

This sounds more like the Hawkaw whose posts in the UN threads I've followed. Thank you for making the effort to hear what I'm saying, even when I'm not saying it as tactfully and respectfully as you or anyone else deserves.

But I am not on any high horse or want thunderous applause. I would prefer people like you recognizing, gaining and enjoying freedom and honesty any day of the week over over applause.

And you will please accept my apology for this jab. In all of your posts in the UN threads, you've been very generous in acknowledging others' comments and contributions and reasonable in your discussions. I was angered in this thread by your suggestions regarding RP and was/am even more hurt and disappointed by the prospect that you might be correct that RP has sold out. I get pissy with each additional step I take toward the total loss of faith in everyone and everything I've known and believed for over half my life. Not your fault, I'm in so very much pain in my life it's become kneejerk on my part.

Please accept my apologizes Amesian and you too, Mr. Johnston.

Thank you for your humility, Hawkaw. It's quite refreshing on this board and I appreciate it more than you know.

One other thing, Amnesian - I know of only one other person who uses the
word "monolith"

You kid. Don't you???

-AMNESIAN

31

Who is Robert Johnson and his WTS/UN Connection

by hawkaw in

someone very nice (alan f) passed this on to me late friday and i did not have the opportunity to pass it on to you.. if any of you guys have been following my un thread (which is now very tough to find thanks to the changes in the board) you may have noticed the 1994 un directory.

it provided three names on page 261 that were linked with the wts's name.

one person was w. l. barry (at the time he was the vice president).

AMNESIAN

I didn't say he was a wicked person. You did.

Read what I actually said.

You said he was "compassionate", not me. My point on "compassion" is simple.

In your world lots of things seem simple. At least the ones you bring to JWD. I envy you and your world. And I don't mean that facetiously.

Compassionate people in positions of power don't let innocent little children needlessly die.

I have no desire or intention of taking issue with such an emotionally-weighted, sanctimonious battle cry.

What I will say is that in your zeal to slather everything and everyone related to the WTS with the same venomous brush, you tend to get a bit sloppy. Time and again I read here by those who claim to be in the know that there are those in Brooklyn who are mightily conflicted in their loyalties and consciences over the dire direction(s) this organization has embarked on. Until confronted with indicting evidence to the contrary, I am able to believe that the RP Johnson I knew many years ago just may be one of them. Break it down into small pieces and see if you can get that.

Oh BTW I completely understand my employer and if he/she steps out of line I have followed my ethics under my Professional licence and done what has been needed to be done.

Bully for you. I don't suppose, then, that your employer happens to hold the deed to absolutely every aspect, real and imagined, of your and your wife's lives---past, present, and any future---, everything from when and whether you eat to how you will survive in your pension-less old age? Before you take flight from there, I do not, do not in any way, feel that such circumstances justify a knowing and willful violation of human rights and ethics and decency. I am just saying that some are able to imagine how good and decent men and women can find themselves unwittingly to have gradually become mired and trapped on the wrong side of complex issues. (Though regarding a much less egregious circumstance, one of my favorite movies, "Quiz Show" comes to mind---check it if you don't already know it) Again, not all of us are blessed to live our lives in the simple, black and white world you apparently inhabit.

As for hating the WTS. I don't hate the WTS but I dislike the people who knowingly know what is going on in doctrines like in the blood doctrine. They know it is wrong but are letting it continue. That is culpable homicide. Ye sthe guy is a nice guy and yes you are right about the problems in being in a cult. But these people in positions of power, nice or not, need to be held accountable for their actions.

Regardless of who RP was or is, if he is in fact now one of the Brooklyn crime bosses, either by his own premeditated decisions and/or actions or by mere compliance out of his own fear and/or self-preservation instincts, he is still morally reprehensible and must be held accountable. That said, I doubt it would muffle your thundering JWD ovation if you were to take a more balanced approach when dealing with specific WTS individuals by name as opposed to no-harm-no-foul vilifying of the WTS "monolith" when making such vile accusations. At least until you get the goods on the individual under investigation.

-AMNESIAN

31

Who is Robert Johnson and his WTS/UN Connection

by hawkaw in

someone very nice (alan f) passed this on to me late friday and i did not have the opportunity to pass it on to you.. if any of you guys have been following my un thread (which is now very tough to find thanks to the changes in the board) you may have noticed the 1994 un directory.

it provided three names on page 261 that were linked with the wts's name.

one person was w. l. barry (at the time he was the vice president).

AMNESIAN

......extremely bright ........ eh .....
Nice guy ..... eh ....... compassionate .... eh ...
If he is so nice and compassionate and in a position of power, why is he letting little Children needlessly bleed to death?
Compassionate people don't let little children needlessly die and put little children ahead of a corporation.

Slow yo' roll, Hawk,

Climb off your high horse. Am I mistaken or did you post somewhere around here that you were never a JW? If true, no matter what efforts you've contributed to this UN-NGO thing, you have absolutely no (as in nada, zip, zilch, zero) clue about being a JW, much less about struggling to balance your conscience against your desire to believe that the organization represents Jehovah.

So what, we're lying about the kind of person we perceived RP to be? We're fans, groupies of his and cannot see how wicked RP is?

Get over yourself. I know this UN thing is your Rose Parade float, but, I'm telling you the man I knew and I'm no chump in the character judging department. You've provided nothing in the way of evidence that dispels that for me. I can't defend who he is today cause I don't still know him, but I do know that, at their core, most adults have a harder time passing a kidney stone than changing who they are.

Surely, in your lather against the WTS (for whatever mysterious reason a never-been-a-JW has such!), you're not so naive as to suppose that anyone, even WTS loyalists, perceives his world and lives his life from a purely black or white perspective. RP may be a rotten, sellout scoundrel for the WTS by now. Otoh, he might be a godly, ethical man who is deeply conflicted and wishes for the organization (and himself) a way out of its own miseries and missteps.

Tell me, have you so investigated your employer that you confidently endorse its integrity in all matters crucial to you? Do you continue to work for it because you are convinced of that integrity?

Geez. Give me an intercoursing break.

-AMNESIAN

31

Who is Robert Johnson and his WTS/UN Connection

by hawkaw in

someone very nice (alan f) passed this on to me late friday and i did not have the opportunity to pass it on to you.. if any of you guys have been following my un thread (which is now very tough to find thanks to the changes in the board) you may have noticed the 1994 un directory.

it provided three names on page 261 that were linked with the wts's name.

one person was w. l. barry (at the time he was the vice president).

AMNESIAN

This photo is from the January 15, 2001 WT. It is one of two very recent photos of him to appear in the literature. I cannot recall the other. RP is the elder, obviously:

RP served as CO back in So Cal in early 70s. Extremely bright, genuinely humble and down-to-earth. A soft-spoken, compassionate and discreet counselor who related to and interacted with the friends as one of their brothers and not as one who felt superior or entitled. A speaker you could listen to for hours without checking your watch. No matter how many years passed between your last encounters, he'd always greet you by name and ask about your children by name. If you responded that the "child" had been disfellowshipped, he'd make it a point to say "Make sure to tell him/her I asked about him/her." This is no exaggeration. Believe me, most of the COs I've known over the years have been anal cavities whom I only barely tolerated. RP was the exception, a redwood among mere sprouts.

Grace: Shy, sweet, quiet. A lovely, lovely woman.

We last saw them (for the first time in over 20 years) a few years ago and neither seemed to have changed. I know he is considered an organization heavy now, but can't help but wonder whether and to what degree he's been affected by the pharisaic direction the organization has pursued.

JT apparently knew RP very well and more recently than we, from his stint at Bethel. Perhaps when he spots this thread and has time he will grace us with more of his keen (and hysterically witty!) insights and recollections.

-AMNESIAN

8

AIDAFRIQUE???

by AMNESIAN in

jw
friends

i see recurring references in various posts.

what is it and what has it to do with the wts?.

reply here, email, and/or links very much appreciated.. -amnesian

AMNESIAN

Thanks very much blondie and nelly for big and speedy help.

-AMNESIAN

8

AIDAFRIQUE???

by AMNESIAN in

jw
friends

i see recurring references in various posts.

what is it and what has it to do with the wts?.

reply here, email, and/or links very much appreciated.. -amnesian

AMNESIAN

I see recurring references in various posts. What is it and what has it to do with the WTS?

Reply here, email, and/or links very much appreciated.

-AMNESIAN

23

Reported From A Circuit Assy. Recently

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

during the baptism talk in a recent assembly the co delivering the talk apparently made this statement:.

'you have often been warned about bad association outside the congregation - we want to warn you about bad association within the congregation.

some might approach you with misinformation about jw's they have picked up from enemies of the truth and try to confuse you do not listen to them talk to your elders about them.'.

AMNESIAN

rem, currently reading 1984

So am I. Re-reading it, that is. Certainly resonates differently now after spending over half my life in a truly Orwellian world than it did back when I first read it in college.

HS, thank you for the bulletin.

-AMNESIAN

23

Reported From A Circuit Assy. Recently

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

during the baptism talk in a recent assembly the co delivering the talk apparently made this statement:.

'you have often been warned about bad association outside the congregation - we want to warn you about bad association within the congregation.

some might approach you with misinformation about jw's they have picked up from enemies of the truth and try to confuse you do not listen to them talk to your elders about them.'.

AMNESIAN

The CO giving the baptism talk anywhere, much less a CA? Are you certain? Never seen it.

-AMNESIAN

37

Media Dept London HQ - UN Letter

by Celtic in

jw
friends

hawk was most helpful in supplying letter to the board here a day or so ago re: wtbts membership of dpi un.. i rang the media department in london today who said that they were well aware of the letter and its contents.. asked why the organisation seems to be in contradiction to its litureture the wt and awake, concerning the beast of revelation, i was told by the department that the society has never been affiliated to the un.

the only reason why they belonged to the dpi was to access their, (the un), library resources.. i asked if the comments (non-affiliation) could be sent to me via email.

i was told that that was not nessarsary as the un had already supplied information.

AMNESIAN

As I have evidenced with numerous posts, w/links in Hawkaw's big thread, the UN Association was just one of many acts of forncation with governmental and non-governmental groups over the past 10 years

That's the problem. It's time for some of this stuff to be broken out of the "big" threads and posted on their own. It's likely being missed by those who feel they've gotten all they can out of the lengthy UN-NGO thread(s) and are no longer trying to keep up with the posts but would be instantly riveted to more and different evidence with its own subject header.

What you're referencing raises whole and significant other associations that deserve their own independent spotlight.

-AMNESIAN

20

Glacial Change/Dec.1, 2001 WT

by metatron in

jw
friends

latest wt (questions often pretended to be from readers).

lets you pray for df'd people in private.

wow, this.

AMNESIAN

They may be moved to pray that he may draw strength from God's inspired Word and that Jehovah will act toward the sinner in harmony with his will.-ps 44:21, ec. 12:14
While some may be in a position to observe sufficient evidence to believe that the simmer has repented, this may not be the case with the congregation in general. They would be puzzled, troubled, even stumbled if they were to hear someone praying publicly about the erring one. For this reason, those who feel moved to pray about the sinner should do so only in private...

So [again with the] Brother or Sister "Some" in the congregation would be "puzzled, troubled, even stumbled if they were to hear someone praying publicly about the erring one" when all the friggin' prayer requests is that the so-called erring one "...may draw strength from God's inspired Word and that Jehovah will act toward the sinner in harmony with his will"???

In what way does setting such a code of what is considered acceptable conduct reconcile with a Creator (and Son) who again and again calls for erring ones to return to him no matter what they've done? Praying for their repentance by name in a public prayer ---even if no one ever dares do it--- is specifically prohibited by the Pharisees because "some" in the congregation who call themselves true Christians would be stumbled by a public request that begs for such ones to "return to God who mercy shows and who forgives in his own large way"???

I am not being sarcastic or facetious when I say that this completely astounds me. (Btw, it was the whole business of who we were "allowed" to pray for that finally blasted the lid off the many doubts I'd vigilantly kept under lock and key for quite some time.)

-AMNESIAN