Posts by AMNESIAN

17

To: Borgfree / Elder Culpability

by Amazing in

jw
friends

hi borgfree: on freefallins post you noted the following, i know there are some serving as elders etc.

who may be decent people apart from the wt.

however, the people they hurt by enforcing the wt doctrines are just as hurt as if done by an unloving elder.

AMNESIAN

I think we have to respect the choices that other elders make. In the end, we all accept the natural consequences of our choices. I see nothing to gain by second guessing others in this regard and hope that others don't judge me for way the I handled my situation. I did the best that I could, as I'm sure you did too.

Boy, LE, do I ever disagree with this.

This kind of reasoning can only be justified when one's choices affect only him as the chooser. That's not the case with elders. These men stay in the business of judging others---their hearts, their motives, their intentions, no less!--- and affecting the very course of our entire lives but are not to be judged by us? Rubbish!

Elders who remain such for the WTS, no matter how well-intentioned and decent they perceive themselves to be, are as guilty of perpetuating egregious abuse and inflicting monstrous damage on others--- no matter how thoughtfully they claim to execute such--- as the wicked elder who feels no need absolution for his rotteness. It is unconscionable to justify carrying out atrocities on trusting innocents by claiming to do so in the service of some greater cause. To suggest that they shouldn't be judged by us sadly smacks of the same type "counsel" the Society excels at dispensing to inflict guilt on the multitude for believing their lying eyes.

-AMNESIAN

4

Climbing mount impossible.

by sleepy in

jw
friends

thats what witnesses have to do every day.. why?.

first they are told they are imperfect , that they can never fight the desires of the flesh.. then they are told that they must follow the example of jesus who is perfect.. so they are encouraged to engage in the ministry work attend all meetings do bible study amongst other tasks.. if they fail to do so the magazines and talks make clear they are spiritually weak.

so they must try harder .. to progress you must do more on the ministry go to more meetings and do more study.. yet at what point does imperfection kick in and rule out doing more of these things.. if you fail to go on the ministry on a saturday morning even though you are not in work are you spiritually weak or imperfect?.

AMNESIAN

sleepy:

A witness can never decide he is doing all he can because the magazines and talks will always tell him to do more.

Put this particular way, this is quite the insightful observation.

On the one hand we were regularly told that Jehovah is pleased with whatever each of us conscientiously decided he could give. Good so far as it goes. But there was never a mag article or talk that commended you for your faithfulness to your decision without urging further effort. We were not left to make that personal determination. That's where the literature and the rest of the "counsel" stepped in to "encourage" you to do more than whatever you had already conscientiously determined you could do. The message was always to do more than you could ---or wanted to--- do. God loves a cheerful giver, indeed.

-AMNESIAN

23

A WOMAN'S PLACE IS AT HOME!!!!!!

by crownboy in

jw
friends

all of us know how patricharcial the watchtower society (and most fundamentalist religions) is.

men pretty much "run the show", there probably are things a two year old "brother" would probably get to do before a poineer sister can.

because the sister is a female(maybe .

AMNESIAN

Yeah! That's right! It's a fucking riot! Especially when you're a kid hearing and watching that done to your Mom.

Oh, I'm sure your mother would argue that she was the one having the real laughs. I'm guessing the two of you have grand, knee-slapping sessions looking back on these very funny memories.

Seriously, I hope you and your mom are healing, sweetie.

-AMNESIAN

23

A WOMAN'S PLACE IS AT HOME!!!!!!

by crownboy in

jw
friends

all of us know how patricharcial the watchtower society (and most fundamentalist religions) is.

men pretty much "run the show", there probably are things a two year old "brother" would probably get to do before a poineer sister can.

because the sister is a female(maybe .

AMNESIAN

What do you tell a woman with two black eyes?
Nothing, you've told her twice already.

LOL! Derek, now that was FUNNY!

Side-spliting </sarcastic disgust>.

-AMNESIAN

7

Dateline by 12/31/01??

by Quandary in

jw
friends

it has been stated that the dateline episode would run before the end of the year.

does anyone have any factual information about the status of the expose?

AMNESIAN

Hopefully not. The last two weeks of the year are the worst possible time for the segment to air in terms of drawing the largest possible audience. Most shows are in re-runs cuz the nets know nobody's watching.

Better it air in January or during February sweeps.

-AMNESIAN

35

Last Days

by disneycuty in

jw
friends

do you believe that we are in the "last days?

"

AMNESIAN

Do you believe that we are in the "Last Days?"

I can't speak for "we," but I am not---not any longer. After nearly 30 years, my last daze has come to its end.

-AMNESIAN

42

Did Crisis of Conscience damage you?

by Mulan in

jw
friends

it has been suggested, by a man we know, that those who read crisis of conscience, are left with a feeling of despair and are "cast adrift" after reading it.

it is his opinion that the book shouldn't have been written, because it does harm to people.

i do not agree, and would like to hear from anyone who has an opinion to share, so i can print all this out and show it to him.. comments, everyone, please????

AMNESIAN

Marilyn,

My sense is that the vast majority of JWs who reach the point of deciding to read CoC have already begun to experience niggling-to-profound doubts and skepticism---if not full-blown disbelief. It doesn't figure, at least to me, that one who is still a true-believer with faith wholly in tact would even consider reading such a publication. These, imo, are done no harm as they have already started to detect something fishy. That was the case for me, anyway. And once I read CoC, yes I did experience a deep sense of despair even while huge holes started to fill in around the areas I'd begun to have doubts ---the divine appointment and direction of the the gb, for starters.

Would I have preferred not to know? No. The despair for me was that the book had been around for nearly 20 years---and I had major doubts for the last 10--- before I dared check it out.

Otoh, although I believe that Ray was conscience/duty-bound to write CoC, I don't think that it need be read by all JWs, a great number of whom are probably no better or worse off being Witnesses and would probably despair beyond ability to recover if stripped of "The Truth" by being forced to face the truth.

-AMNESIAN

32

FELLOWSHIP

by ricoananas in

jw
friends

i've been reading lots of messages in just a few days of logging on to this site and have to say that in the beginning it was bothering me to still be doing the jw thing.

i dropped out after 25 years, the last 14 as an elder.

now, however, i'm beginning to realize that the posts have been giving me a feeling of fellowship with many people who have gone/are going through experiences similar to mine, a kind of fellowship that i rarely if ever felt being among other jw's.

AMNESIAN

That would be "Suavé Rico", no ?

I've been reading lots of messages in just a few days of logging on to this site and have to say that in the beginning it was bothering me to still be doing the JW thing. I dropped out after 25 years, the last 14 as an elder.

I didn't quite understand your comment here. Are you "still doing the JW thing" or dropped out or what?

-AMNESIAN, forgetful hearer

28

they wont leave me alone!

by zanex in

jw
friends

i have a problem..i have been df'd for like 6 or 7 years i lose count but point is my parents are still stuck in the alternate dimension called jw and they seem to think that there is still a "chance" for me.

lol..funny shit i think but anyway, the town i live in just happens to house some of my friggin elder pop's elder friends...like i thought when i got df'd that meant they would leave me alone but now that i have a wife and kid that arent jw related at all my parents seem to think that my wife will "convert" i trust my wife better than that and i know that there is no way that she would ever do that..she is as cynical as i am..my prob is that they have infiltrated me at my work and i dont want to have to be an asshole about it but i just need them to leave me be...anybody got any ideas on things i can do shy of buying a fully automatic weapon and perching myself on my front doorstep?

anyway..i can hear the psychiatrist callin my name...lol..

AMNESIAN

...how a jw can be friends with you for 30yrs come to the hall and an annoucement is made and they can turn off thier feelings right then and there as it were- what type of mind control can cause a person who had been told that a friend of 30yrs is now DFed NOT EVEN WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED
YOU WOULd AT LEAST think the person would call the person and say:
"John-- what is going on- i heard you are now DFed - John what happened man?"
instead the avg jw would never call this person since they have been indoctrinated to ACCEPT THAT whatever he did the elders tried to help him and he refused-
in my view the avg jw never even gives consideration to the fact that the elders could have been wrong/handled the case wrong/ been unqualified even by WT own standards. etc
they merely are taught week in and week out to accept whatever they are told-

Hi JT,

Your days away from the 5 weekly "beatings" are apparently dulling your recollection---a blessing, btw, I hope to enjoy myself one day

Never, ever minimize the incessant "counsel" that to question in any way the decision of the elders is tantamount to disloyalty to God himself. If only I had a dollar for every time I've read that "the elders have information that you don't have" or, a particular favorite, "...wait on Jehovah to correct matters." No matter how strong one's suspicions of incompetence and/or corruption on the part of the elders, how is even the courageous, independent-minded dub to counter that kind of ham-handed abuse without risking his own standing in the congregation?

A friend recently told me that, after hearing that a young woman with whom she'd studied and to whom she'd become a "spiritual mother" had been df'd, she went to her home to see about her and ask the very question you raised, "...what happened???" She'd barely gotten in her front door from the visit before two sky-blue polyester suit sportin', hi-water pants/clip-on tie wearing, "pleather" book-bag carrying "shepherds" appeared at her door to give her her one and only warning that if there was a repeat offense, she'd be dealt with judicially.

Sure, she was furious, but what's a dub to do, especially one of the contemptible "weaker vessel" persuasion?

-AMNESIAN

44

Why can some question and others not

by joelbear in

jw
friends

we are not jehovah's witnesses because of a variety of circumstances, but one thing we all share is that we question.. what factors come together to make us questioners?.

intelligence?

but i know a lot of very smart non-questioning jehovah's witnesses.. bravery?

AMNESIAN

Hi Yoyo

I was not long ago where you are about "apostate" lit, but here's something that came to strike me as odd:

That "Brooklyn" (who that constitutes is left to the devining of each individual JW) demands that JWs accept in whole, without question or quibble, the "truth," "new light" (which can deviate mightily from "our previous understanding"), instruction, "suggestion," "encouragement," criticism, prophetic interpretation, Bible interpretation, clarified/enhanced/expanded/"tacking" explanation, justification, exhortation, counsel, directive and the like from them that arrives within the plain-wrappered pages of anonymously-authored "spiritual food," but that it is verboten to even thumb through any written word of "apostates" and "opposers" who gladly self-identify, calling out all who would refute their claims.

It stopped figuring to me that the "truth" is disseminated incognito, while author(s) of "apostate lies" sign their names to their stuff. Logic started to suggest to me that perhaps that should be the other way around. Sheds...er...new light on the whole "Witness Protection Program" concept.

-AMNESIAN