AMOS

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Posts by AMOS

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  13

  Why did he do it?

  by ozziepost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  have you wondered why god allowed the watchtower organisation to start in the first place?.

  is it really god's organisation, that's just got corrupted?.

  was it ever god's organisation?.

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  AMOS

  Dear Had enough,

  Strangely enough, the only two things I am thankful to the org for is that I believed in God and believed in the Bible which helped me no end in the depths of darkness and loss. I was 3rd generation WT brainwashed. No other exposure to anything. My husband was "high up", both had been in Bethel, etc etc. Ultra devotion was our scene. As a teenager I read a book by an ex JW, and whilst agreeing with his exposures of the organisation, where else do you go? It's like saying, the earth is bad, rotten, no good to live here, but where do you go that can sustain life? The moon? Mars? I did not understand the author’s concepts about Jesus or about the real "good news". The JWs in their wisdom, put out Byingtons Bible, and being a good JW bought it and used it as my reading Bible. I came across Ephesians 2:8,9 and asked my most learned husband "What does grace mean" and from that point my JW world started falling apart. One thing I am grateful to the JWs for is my deep belief in God and his Word, but now I didn't trust the WT version of the Bible anymore and started using a Hebrew and Greek interlinear. I also had thousands of why's and how come's? Stuff I started finding out about the translation, about the organisation was horrific for me. My husband was very angry because I was reading Christian literature as well - The Fight by John White, (I actually found out that eternal life is free – you cannot buy it, you cannot work for it, you cannot earn it) - Basic Christianity by John Stott. Whilst I have multiple comments in the margins about doctrine (after all I didn't know I was brainwashed) I learned about the love of God and dared to think that He might actually love me. With all the organisational work, never being sure whether or not I was going to survive Armageddon anyway, (I might sin fatally just the day before) I had started to come to view Jehovah as some sort of volcano, and here we were as JWs - as poor villagers at the foot of the volcano, running up and down the mountain with our vegetables and trinkets, selling our magazines, trying to make an offering to this angry mountain and stop the lava flow coming down to destroy us all. Even my dear devoted JW father used to say that the organisation was full of "redbacks" - lethal spiders in Ozzie land!

  I also recall when I was trying to fit and box everything in my mind, rationalise all the answers, that I had this experience where I saw myself witnessing at the door to a Roman Catholic. Here I saw myself trying to "prove" the JWs were right, and the RC saying to me" Oh yes, I am looking for the truth and deeply searching for it but I know the Roman Catholic church is right and the Pope gives us direction". It hit me like a slap in the head that this is exactly what I was doing as a JW. I had set my parameters when searching for the truth - parameters set by the WT organisation so that one CANNOT find the TRUTH because we are using JW guidelines. It was at that point, in total terror - I thought the earth was going to swallow me up that scenes of that horrendous brainwashing episode at the last convention I had been to about Dathan and the rest being swallowed up for questioning Moses/Aaron? washed over me. But up until that time I had never asked the ultimate question - Is it God's organisation and what evidence do I have? I was physically ill thinking that Jehovah was going to strike me down for this thought, but that's when I told Him, "I want to serve you, I want to follow you, I want to find the truth from you, I don't know what to do, I don't know where to go, I don't know whom to trust, if it's your organisation, then show me, if it's not then show me so that I cannot misinterpret." Strangely, the two "tests" I put to Jehovah to show me if it was his organisation or not came to reality within 24 hours. Very merciful of Him. Then I rested, went to the meetings like a moron (true sense)just listening.

  My suggestion is GO SLOW. Read a different version of the Bible. Some of the answers (your major ones) will be answered, some never will this side of eternal life. After all, if we are truly dealing with God, then his subjects can’t possibly interpret and predict His every move. When we box God – it might make us feel better with false answers for a period – but then we are not dealing with the God of the Universe, only one of our own making, which ultimate is an image and hence idolatry.
  Keep knocking and keep searching. Anything too difficult just put into the “too hard basket for the time being” and just keep going. There are thousands of supporters here for you.
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  17

  U can leave the truth but the truth cant leave U

  by skeptical 1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  forgive my brutal honesty but thats my take on this site so far.

  thats not to say that it serves no useful purpose.

  but it does seem that many of you are totally consumed with proving to yourself and others that jw's don't have the truth.

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  AMOS

  skeptical 1
  What initially makes the organisation's interpretations easier to swallow is that it is more concrete than spiritual. eg. After WWII in Europe with intense hardship, tremendous loss of life, why wouldn't the concrete concept of no more war, no more money problems, no more hunger, no more death, seeing your loved ones who just died in bombings appeal to you? The lovely doctored pictures in various books now providing visual support to the concrete dream. It is everything you want and need to hear. If someone had come along and said "I'd like to share with you how to come into a relationship with Jesus and the Father", this is a spiritual concept and relationship and not particularly appealing, dare I use the word, to our sinfulness. Why JWs and other man religions make so much sense is because so much of it is of human origin - mind you under the guise of God's Word. Jehovah is put in a box, JWs and others have disected him, know all the answers, and we certainly want answers and guidance in life. When you ask "what is the alternative" you immediately mention other cults or organisations. Until you wait for God (Jehovah) to show you the "way" or "the truth" (Jesus) you could be shopping from one religion to another, but always based on your expectations and your predetermined (brainwashed)concept of the truth. On hyprocisy, every sinner is some way displays hypocrisy at some time in their life. We know the right way to go, especially for other people, but when it comes to me, well... I believe the apostle Paul had this struggle, knowing the right thing to do but....and we would hardly call him a hypocrite. When you mention you have to "look long and hard" to find hypocrisy in the JWs, it all depends on what glasses you are looking through. I recall the struggle after being raised a JW in trying to find the truth - it is there alright - but until we say, as I experienced "I don't know what is the truth anymore, I don't trust anyone anymore, I don't trust any version of the Bible and I'll go back to the Hebrew and Greek Interlinear and asking Jehovah that "whatever, whereever the truth is" you want to be part of that and Him, your mind is still closed because you have set parameters around your search for truth. It causes great pain to those of us who have left and indeed found the TRUTH in Jesus, not some organisation, so see our former brethern caught in the barb wire on their way out of the organisation. It causes even more pain, that their stories are duplicated millions of times through the same issues with other religions or cults. Keep searching - the TRUTH is out there but just not in the form you have been brainwashed to believe.
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  65

  The dim people

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the dim people.

  the new world society.

  the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.

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  AMOS

  Norm, surely one can only choose if you have the ability mentally, emotionally, physically to make a choice and act on it. If you have choices put before you that you can "see" - if you are blind you can't see, if you are deaf you can't hear. If your neural pathways have been so programmed - there is not much room for lifting the lid and as you say so correctly, the paralysing fear. The lucky people are those who deep down, never accepted the Borg as THE truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth - they had some reserve of free thinking. As for the rest of us.... I also acted on silent thinking, asking big J why, why, why. Paid a heavy price, but the freedom was worth it.
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  65

  The dim people

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the dim people.

  the new world society.

  the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.

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  AMOS

  patio34. Thanks for your quotes from Smith. What I was originally trying to say was that all beliefs (or even unbeliefs)are influenced by others. Where there is an unwillingness to challenge the belief or unbelief there is a mindset that is almost impervious to logic. For example, you quote from Smith as an authority just as JWs quote the WT as some sort of authority, or Muslims quote the Koran as some sort of authority, so you displaying an external influence on your thinking. Smith's argument that babies are born atheists makes as much sense as saying that children are born not believing in the USA. A baby is born with not much more belief than in its mother's breast! All knowledge is gained from external sources. Logically, what a baby is born either believing or unbelieving has little bearing on reality, such as the existence of USA. Be as open to challenge your unbelief as believers must be open to challenges of their beliefs. Cheers
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  65

  The dim people

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the dim people.

  the new world society.

  the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.

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  AMOS

  Norm, I think I said that when you have a mindset (not specifically religious people), then logic, reasoning won't work. Sorry if I wasn't sensitive enough to your anger and how you are still feeling. Is it possible that instead of the brainwashed Jdubs being the dim witted, it is really individuals who are - whatever labels you gave them - prior to being brainwashed. After all, would a sensible, logical person fall for that stuff. I had no choice - I was raised in it and can plead (?) ignorance. However their message is very appealing to people who are very vulnerable to predators. Once one is brainwashed are we then not just victim blaming?
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  65

  The dim people

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the dim people.

  the new world society.

  the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.

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  AMOS

  Hi Tina & Ozzie
  Logic is shaped by experience, education and belief. For some people logic tells them there is no god but for the vast majority of the human race logic tells them there is a god or gods. Whose logic is the most logical? Logic is as subjective as belief. If by logic you are referring to scientific discovery as the criterion the most you can say is that with the instrumentation available at the moment scientists have not been able to measure the existence of god. Two hundred years ago, scientists were not able to measure the existence of viruses and hence did not believe in their existence. The inadequancy of scientific measuring systems does not prove the non-existence of anything. The most you can say is that "at the moment science has been unable to determine whether god exists". No true scientist is ever able to say more than that. To state categorically there is no god is another way of saying that you know all things about everything, past present and future and that you have been in the whole universe to know there isn't a god. If you don't know everything then one can't logically say that there is no god, only that there possibly isn't a god, in which case it is equally possible that there is one.
  My point was simply that when we have mindsets - these must have had input from the outside then until we examine our mindsets, religious or otherwise, we can be manipulated by those mindsets. The question really then is, what's your poison? Cheers
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  4

  Watchtower Study - Aug 12

  by hippikon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  though he had every right to cut off com-munication with humans, jehovah did not do so.

  enlightenment.. 5, 6. in what ways did jehovah commu-nicate with his people before the first century c.e., and how did this bene-fit them?.

  do you discern how the holy spirit has influenced your life for the better?.

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  AMOS

  Hi Individuals wife:
  Your scenario sounds too familiar. I recall being at an assembly years ago, exhausted with minding 3 small children, while the husband did the "spiritual JW bit" being in charge of departments etc. and sitting down and thinking about Jesus' words, "come to me for rest - my load is kindly and light" and I recall thinking what a lot of nonsense, how burdensome and hard trying to be a JW was with no guarantee of not dying in Armageddon anyway. There was never any rest. Thank God I now have the peace that passes all understanding and am free.
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  86

  Submit your favorite quote!

  by Spartacus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when a difficulty is deep and painful, the triumph is glorious and jubilant.. -spartacus 2001

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  AMOS

  From "Purpose Driven Church", can't remember author. When you always do what you've always done you'll always be where you've always been.
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  65

  The dim people

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the dim people.

  the new world society.

  the chosen, brain dead, scared people.. the watchtower's obedient parrots.

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  AMOS

  Norm,
  Phew, that was a bit rough. That's the problem with brainwashing - you can't see, hear, feel or touch it. But mind you, it's no different for the rest of the world, once a certain mindset is accepted it's just as hard to shift anyone from their position, whether they be RC, or a cultist, or a political party follower or just have a mindset about social issues. That's why it's so hard to communicate with someone who is brainwashed - as soon as a button (trigger word, such as cross, Xmas ) the tape turns on. Unfortunately, logic, facts, reason does not work - anymore it does with most people. I suppose the bottom line is it doesn't matter whether you are a JW, a Mormon, SDA or some other cult, or just a plain atheist - except for the misery it causes to so many. Just Satan at work blinding the minds of people - not about the borg but the good news about Jesus.
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  3

  To alamb

  by TweetieBird in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  you stated in another post.... "i personally am eternally grateful that someone went out on a limb to talk to me.

  after the first 5 minutes, 35 years of beliefs melted away and i was able to see beyond the lies.

  the puzzle finally fit.".

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  AMOS

  Tweetie
  There is no technique, no words or method that works for all. Let God do his work and faithfully keep sowing the seed and watering in the meantime.