Let me try it again
Draconian
JoinedPosts by Draconian
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44
Another Awake! Caption Thread
by Stephanus inhere's an awake!
cover that tries to give the impression that the demand for bloodless surgery comes from other than the dubs (strange that they should try to find support for such a "scriptural" doctrine by saying "everybody else is doing it!
here is the "blank":.
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44
Another Awake! Caption Thread
by Stephanus inhere's an awake!
cover that tries to give the impression that the demand for bloodless surgery comes from other than the dubs (strange that they should try to find support for such a "scriptural" doctrine by saying "everybody else is doing it!
here is the "blank":.
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Watchtower Captions
by Stephanus ina typical 'tower cover depicting a before and after shot of "da good life", watchtower style:.
with the text (rather sloppily, i'm afraid) editted out:.
and some contributions by me (towards the worldwide work, natch!):.
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When does it get better?
by MonkeyPrincess inwhen will the guilty feeling of leaving the org go away?
i am feeling at my lowest point right now, and its terrible.
this after visiting my parents and feeling that awkward tension building between us.
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Draconian
The guilt about celebrating birthdays is particularly sad. The JW doctrine against celebrating birthdays is ASININE. I'm sure they would cite some twisted interpretation of the Bible to justify it, but you know what you are robbed of when you DON'T celebrate birthdays?
Each person is an individual. A long time ago people lived in monarchies and dictatorships and life was cheap, but now we have a general sense that potentially anybody can do great things regardless of birth and class, given the chance. Lincoln was born in a log-cabin, a big millionaire like Andrew Carnegie (the steel baron of the 19th century) was a dirt-poor immigrant from Scotland but ended up endowing a good number of the United States' public libraries with his charitable donations.
So, potentially, the world is a little better with you in it than without you. I dunno, you MIGHT end up being a mass-murderer, but let's just ASSUME the world's a little better. :-) And since your arrival in the world is a significant step for betterment, it is worth it for your family and friends to commemorate it and say, "Hey! You're here. You've been here for exactly x years and the world is a little better for it. We love you." It doesn't mean you're practicing astrology or some junk and demons will leap into your eyeballs the moment you blow out some candles. Geez!
Christmas, the birthday of Jesus, we don't know exactly when. Most people back then couldn't track the exact day of the year they were born anyway (when you were a primitive or a farmer you were not into calendars of any sort). Dec. 25th will serve as good as any other day. It's cold and dreary and people need cheering up. Never mind overblown stories that Dec. 25th is descended from occult observances. You observe it for your OWN reasons, you're not secretly or unwittingly venerating El Diablo, just like a guy celebrating his own birthday on Sept. 11th is not unwittingly celebrating Muslim terrorism. There's just so many days in the year, evil events share dates with good ones!
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When does it get better?
by MonkeyPrincess inwhen will the guilty feeling of leaving the org go away?
i am feeling at my lowest point right now, and its terrible.
this after visiting my parents and feeling that awkward tension building between us.
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Draconian
MonkeyPrincess, hang in there. I was never in the JWs but recruiters for cults were a problem on university campuses in the 80's and so in response my university held Cult Awareness Weeks for us.
The book MOONWEBS by Josh Freed spoke of the famous case of "Benji", a Canadian caught in the Reverend Moon's Unification Church (the "Moonies"). It was a silly cult but claimed to be the Only Way, and Benji came to believe the smiling Korean was the return of Jesus Christ, but even after his ordeal and being exit-counselled and returned to normal society, "Benji" still had intense anxieties and guilt over doing anything that contravened the will of "Father" [Reverend Moon]. He had to take time out, live by himself, take it slow, read some anti-cult information but also general "worldly" books and newspapers, for many months to shake that awful feeling. Of course many years afterwards it helped that Moon was arrested for tax-evasion and spent a few years in prison washing dishes, so the "Heavenly Father" tarnished his halo. The hardcore followers that are left will probably work it into the theology as Moon's "martyrdom" period, and so it goes! "Benji's" story was also made into a film called TICKET TO HEAVEN.
Your case is different; it is many years since the founders of the Jehovah's Witness cult. The founders lived pretty ridiculous or objectionable or hypocritical lives, but the machinery of the cult is established and discrediting the founders has less relevance for today. But it helps; their foibles are in government court records and the JWs can't just waltz in and erase history.
But the problem is that the human mind is very, very flexible. It can be trained to do anything. You may be amazed and wonder at those guys who do feats like watch a train go by, add up the serial numbers on all the boxcars and get the total exactly right. It's a fact they can do it, and HOW they did it is a slow painful story of practice and starting with simple things. This flexibility of the brain is an evolutionary trait to help us survive by learning to do any of the things we need to survive, even things we haven't thought that we would need before. I took advantage of it, learned to draw with pencils (and sometimes colored pastels) only this year. It's neat, I do a portrait, they say how long has it been since I've been drawing and they are amazed that I say, "June".
But the human mind can be trained to BELIEVE anything as well, exploiting that same mechanism. By careful steps you were led down a certain path, with an elaborate set of reward/punishment tricks built in. Outsiders can help you rejoin them, you snap out of it back to reality, but you are still hurting because the rewards are gone and the punishments are in full force (that is, since you BELIEVE there was some reward in being a JW in the first place, and likewise the threats and punishments are what you believe in.) What will help is to realize that the apocalyptic calamities or the implied threats of a dire life outside the JWs is an ILLUSION. Life is not so bad among the Great Unsaved, really! :-)
The exit phobia that is instilled in every JW is, "This is God Orginization, and if you leave us it is the same as leaving God. And every bad thing that happens to you is God punishing you and in the end....God will KILL you!"
Someone else mentioned the above. It occurs to me, isn't that just the sort of thing an evil organization bent on DISTANCING people from God might say? The best way for someone to spread evil is claim he is acting ultimately for good, all the evil stuff he is doing is actually for good, and you would understand too if you were only sufficiently educated in the doctrine. It's icky reverse psychology, the wolf in sheep's clothing. Like the Communist who impoverishes and oppresses the common man even as they claim they will uplift him. Now I'm not saying Satan founded the Jehovah's Witnesses, we don't know that for sure, since none of the Jehovah's Witness publications are signed! :-)
As for joining a different religious group, be careful, you are as vulnerable as a lover on the rebound after a break-up. At least join members of a religion who are serious about brotherly love and are, say, a little more easy-going than the JWs.
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Social Skills 101 for Newbies
by codeblue in.
pettygrudger and i jokingly chatted about writing a book about this subject...maybe just a "thread" could be of help to newbies that are having problems in learning how to associate beyond jw's.. any suggestions for this new topic?.
codeblue
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Draconian
Bahahahaha. "...For Dummies" books also have a section "The Part of Tens", a set of chapters at the end sort of like top-ten lists: different chapters for top ten tips, top ten extra projects, whatever. Anyone want to do Top Ten Lists for JW Refuseniks?
I count that some chapter numbers were used over, we are actually up to Chapter 30.
Chapter 31: Lord of the Rings: Catching Up and Appreciating Multi-Million Dollar Occult Hollywood Imagery
Chapter 32: Dungeons & Dragons: Tips on Rolling Satan's Bones
Chapter 33: Why the Devil Won't Poke You, Man, For Playing Pokémon
Chapter 34: The Ivy League: Universities Are Not Evil (But They Will Still Suck Out Your Soul!)
Chapter 35: Blood-Donor Clinics: Sharing Your Sinful Bodily Fluids
Chapter 36: Beyond Square-Dancing: From Elvis Presley to Tupac; Catching Up on Satanic Music History
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More decption in Feb 1 WT
by why144000 inhow is this for deceptive writing.
in the feb 1 2004 watchtower under the title 'how can you satisfy your spiritual needs' the artice gives three examples of professional people who have become witnesses, a doctor, a lawyer and an architect.
all come complete with two pictures each.
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Draconian
Sirona: Freddy Mercury? I thought his music was pretty pointless, but okay, with your other examples like Van Gogh and Einstein I get your point. :-)
JWs, take heed. You don't need a religious cult or an extremist political group to give your life MEANING. It's all up to you.
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Watchtower Captions
by Stephanus ina typical 'tower cover depicting a before and after shot of "da good life", watchtower style:.
with the text (rather sloppily, i'm afraid) editted out:.
and some contributions by me (towards the worldwide work, natch!):.
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26
Have you gained weight since leaving the Borg?
by badwillie inwell, sadly i have.
probably like 15 pounds or so.
i feel like shit physically.
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Draconian
I can recommend Weight Watchers for some real weight-loss that lasts at least a year. I got a WW keychain for losing over 10% of my body-weight, which was 316 lbs. at the beginning. Then I stopped the program last year but at least didn't gain anything back. Weight Watchers don't advocate extreme stuff or cutting out any kind of food. In any case, avoid the Atkins Diet or any fad diet of the month which invokes certain tricks or cuts out specific food items, it's not needed. You know what's fattening, just discipline yourself to eat less of it, and more of the no-risk veggie foods, etc.
I suppose it may not be proper here to advertise a corporation but if you're interested you can guess what the Weight Watchers Web-site is.
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What Did You Find To Be The Most Confusing Belief Of Jehovah's Witnesses?
by minimus injehovah's witnesses certainly have some unique beliefs and some are very, very confusing.
anything that you never quite understood?
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Draconian
I am going to say some sharp things which will hurt and offend some. The most confusing doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses is that they are living in some important, pivotal time, that they are the crux of change. But many religions and especially destructive cults have a silly notion that some special Armageddon or Judgment Day of some sort is coming, soon!
I started thinking about this when I had some discussions in a science-fiction role-playing game forum. What shape would religions take in the future? The FUTURAMA cartoon, set in the year 3000 AD, jokingly mentions that the only religions left in America are Oprahism and Voodoo! But seriously, I tried to answer that question, wrote an article about it, by looking at how religions twist and turn and developed in the past. I had a rough "evolve-a-religion" scheme with dice-rolls to see how a religion turns out in the future. Does it change, fuse with something, get influenced by the sayings of some influential prophet, split geographically? What happens to the number of followers after each change? Then maybe after enough thousands of years you see strange new religions with funny names like the Dalai Islamists or the Jiu-Jitsu's for Jesus or the Puss'n'Buddhists (all mentioned in the spoof of Frank Herbert's DUNE, called DOON by Ellis Weiner and the National Lampoon).
My main contention was that RELIGIONS HAVE A SHELF-LIFE. No matter what the doctrine, it's always the same basic message: there were amazing epic mythic things that happened in the distant past, to ignorant shepherds, they rubbed shoulders with God on a daily basis and you don't! It's certain in the modern world that you live twice as long as ignorant shepherds 3,000 years ago, you've seen less war in your life, you're ten times more educated and certainly twenty times cleaner. But, guess what, God appeared to them and not to you because YOU'RE NOT PURE ENOUGH. That idea confuses, irritates and chafes.
This is the most confusing doctrine of the JWs and sadly all other religions. Members sitting in the pew of their particular temple get increasingly confused and resentful, an urge builds up to reset the religious calendar to the Year Zero so amazing miraculous things can happen in THEIR lives. So some prophet or leader engineers a split or schizm or radical change in the religion (or a fusion with some other religion's ideas) so every believer can get the "special" feeling the believers in the shelf-life past-date religions don't have. Most are careful to include customs and doctrines of the old religions as a "bridge", not a complete break, in order to lure converts. That's why Catholic cardinals wear Jewish yarmulkas on their heads -- ever notice that?
So 100 years ago this annoying little dot.com religious start-up called the Millenium Dawn (later called the JWs) started up and it was the same old story. After 1850 years with no new FAX or instructions from Jesus Christ, the founder said he received "new light" or something. He fiddled with Christian doctrine willy-nilly and the religion eventually developed an enviable oppressive bureaucracy you all know and love, and got followers. The cult, I think, won't survive because we are much more literate and better-documented today and the warty origins of the JWs will not pass into the mists of time like so many other religions; it is not documented solely by rabid believers. They can't lie and say their founder was great because we have the court records of the time proving he was defrauding people with "Miracle Wheat", etc.
So the JW lie is that the JWs are special and different, a new page has been turned in history, and a great Judgment Day is coming. That's because it's easier to have a religion saying, "Join us and be saved while others are burned in Hell." than a religion admitting that "Join us and you'll have pretty much the same life as all the non-believers in a modern Westernized country with no war and great medical care and the increased lifespan compared to the people of Biblical times and all the same civil-rights as you." But such doctrines of extreme incidents are VERY confusing.
You can tell I'm cynical about religions. I will always say to the ex-JW's who are reading that it's great you got out of the cult. Wonderful, I applaud your efforts or the help of your family and friends who convinced you to do so. But as a committed Atheist I don't think it's necessarily always the solution to bounce out of one religion only to hop into another. You have the added choice of Atheism to consider. We're pretty easy-going, we won't mire you in extensive doctrines or fragment into lots of sects debating about exactly HOW you're not supposed to believe in God, heheh. But if you want to toy with some religion because it's got a more appealing extreme-times philosophy or they have the best cell-phone coverage of all the religions, well I guess that's your right too.