>>The question "Why does God permit wickedness" is a shadow question; which may be answered with shadow answers which can give solace to a few. But they will never have the deep ring of truth we seek, as there is none there. Questions like these can be a blessing, for they may strain our chains enough that we shift attention from the cave wall to deeper within to the cave entrance right here within everyone.>> JT But if one has the courage, one will greatly evolve as a person. I wonder if the spiritual entity that is our ultimate source (God????) is evolving too. God creates us and we create him....
particlesnwaves5
JoinedPosts by particlesnwaves5
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So, Why Does God Permit Wickedness?
by minimus inwhat would say to someone that asks you that question now?
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So, Why Does God Permit Wickedness?
by minimus inwhat would say to someone that asks you that question now?
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particlesnwaves5
I think we are asking the wrong question.
The question assumes a concrete position with concrete aspects. It assumes that the Bible is best taken literally. While most fundalmentalists would agree and find an answer that suits them with a concrete interpretation of the Bible and of God and of his plan (or purpose--if you prefer), most people do not find the answers given very satisfying.
Take the story of Job(often used in witness lit), for example. If you read it as a literal happening you must accept:
- that God can let Satan kill off Job's slaves and children and later he would be pronounced happy because God allowed him to have ten more. Then the first children mean nothing.
- that it is acceptable for Job to suffer immensely because of a wager between God and Satan.
- God is an neurotic personality that has to prove something to someone who is supposed to be an psychopathic lying spirit.
- When Job tries to take up for himself with his ridiculers, and begins to question the reason behind his suffering, God launches into a lecture about his superiority to the point where Job admits he is nothing but a worm, and that is a healthy spiritual and mental attitude.
- That we must continually prove love and loyalty to God. If God were a lover of mine I would seriously consider leaving him because of his lack of faith and trust in me. How would you feel if you were in a intimate relationship with someone who allowed you to suffer greatly and needlessly because he wanted to see how you would react and not one time but many times and from all directions? Is not a spiritual relationship, the most intimate of all relationships?
I could spend some more time and space to this but I think you see that the book of Job is problematical, to say the least.
I think if we could define the problem(s) better--we would be closer to the answer(s).
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What would be your dream career?
by LyinEyes inif you could have any job, career .......something you are very passionate about , what would it be?.
i would be a photographer,,,,,,,taking picutures world wide, and hopefully be on the cover of time magazine , national geographic.. my second choice would be a makeup artist like kevin alcoin ( sp) , he could do magic and make anyone look like who he wanted them to be.
truely an artist and too bad he passed away.
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particlesnwaves5
Landscape Oil Painter and Writer of Literary Novels.
But a career as a photographer for National Geographic sounds pretty cool...
Retired seems even better!
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Where's your favourite place to be ?
by reboot inwhere do you feel most 'at home' within yourself?
do you have a special affinity with a particular place?
if i feel stressed or low i always head for the beach.i've got a very special beach near me thats empty.
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particlesnwaves5
In my head. (meditating, pondering, or dreaming)
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Things Learned Along the Way
by blondie ini have collected sayings, homilies, whatever along the way that crystallize something bigger i learned.
i will post a few every day.
if you have one, please share it.. if you lie down with dogs, you'll get up with fleas.. to belittle is to be little.. somewhere, i got the idea if i just took care of others, i would be taken care of.. blondie
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particlesnwaves5
Here are some of my favorites; I haven't had time to read all the pages so forgive me if some of these are repeats:
"If you are falling--Dive!" --Joseph Campbell
'You get more of what you focus on.' --Marsha Sinetar
"Out of your vulnerabilities will come your strength." --Sigmund Freud
"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us."--Joseph Campbell
"I have never believed one chance is all I get." --Anne Tyler.
And my all time fav:
"Don't leave personal things behind" --Kerasotes Movie Theatres
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Which One Lie Hurt You The Most About Jehovahs Witnesses?
by shamus inwhich one teaching really hurt you when you found out that it was not true?
my number one thing is finding out that the name "jehovah" was not in the bible like it was in the new world translation (tm).
christians did not call god "jehover" "jehovah" or by his first name, no more than you would call your father by his first name when you were a child.
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particlesnwaves5
I think the UN scandal is the most shocking thing to me. After years of reading horror stories of the persecution witnesses suffered in other lands to maintain extreme political neutrality--the idea that the WT organization would become a NGO member with the UN for a library card, or for what ever reason, is incredible. I think of persons who were disfellowshiped for doing a civil jobs for the army, the prohibitions to join the Y, girl/boy scouts, to do extracurricular activities, etc. Straining the gnat but swallowing the camel........It was a "camel" they created too, by the way, by demonizing the UN.
I think the second biggest "lie" to me is that a person is evil if he comes to know the "truth" and then rejects it--that she "loses God's spirit" and becomes mentally and spiritually corrupted....I feel like I am a more caring, more spiritual, more compassionate person since I left the Witnesses.
One thing I want to say about it all--I don't know what motivates the people at the top. But I was listening to, or reading, something about how if you really want to be convincing about something--you have to believe it yourself. I think that even the guys at the top might really believe the things they say but have deluded themselves. The WT beliefs are a collective illusion.
I guess the most personal lie was that we should be working toward a glorious future after armeggedon and put aside personal pursuits. Sacrificing educational goals, enduring things that I should have done something about, losing all concept of the present....Seeing only evil in this "system of things". To be sure there are serious problems, but there is also a lot of good if one has eyes to see it.
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The Holographic Universe - Question for Skeptics
by Sirona inon the recommendation of "particlesandwaves" in another thread i'm reading the book "the holographic universe" by michael talbot.
the general theory is described here http://www.earthportals.com/hologram.html.
its fascinating.
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particlesnwaves5
<So P&W, is it "disorganized religion" that you prefer? Please describe what element of "organized" religion you reject! (We probably agree) What would you retain given individual needs and collective sociatal needs! Or is it warm and fuzzy to take the Russell road of discounting "all religion"?
carmel>
I just don't want to be a part of any religion but neither do I condemn it. I have friends who are religious and quite happy with their beliefs. I don't knock it because it gives them a sense of security and spiritual family. I believe a smattering of different ideas right now. I don't feel I quite fit anywhere but right now I'm not sure I want to. I do resist the indoctrination that seems to be a part of many religions and am striving to learn how to think for myself.
As far as society goes, I think a person is obligated to treat others well, and have respect for the earth. Does that mean all should believe and worship the same? I don't think it is obligatory, for a culture to thrive. How about you? -
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The Holographic Universe - Question for Skeptics
by Sirona inon the recommendation of "particlesandwaves" in another thread i'm reading the book "the holographic universe" by michael talbot.
the general theory is described here http://www.earthportals.com/hologram.html.
its fascinating.
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particlesnwaves5
I don't know if I buy every thing in the book. But I thought it was interesting. I do like the fact that the author actually did some research and cites the work of other scientists to back up some of his assertions.
I am also reading books about String Theory like The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene and his newest one, I am browsing at at the bookstore.( I always wait till things come out in paperback to purchase.) Brian Greene seems to be more rational that Michael Talbot. But in his latest book he does not negate the thought that aspects of the universe could be holographic in nature. I have never been into hard science but I do like to expand my mind and ponder it if it is broken down in a way I can understand it. I think alot of people would be more into science if it was made accessible and interesting.
Here's one thing I don't agree with, (just in general, I don't think anyone here has said it) that there are things that could never be understood by humans. I think that is a smokescreen for a closed mind.
For some people like myself, organized religion is a turn off, after being in the Witnesses. I guess I am searching for something spiritual to believe in that does have something substantial behind it. For a while I continued to believe that there is no such thing as an immortal soul. When you are dead that is it. But I don't believe that, anymore, either. In the physical world, nothing is ever destroyed. It just changes form. I think there is a world of consciousness in which the same thing is true. But I am not sure at this point how far I want to fly with that. I definitely think it is a more hopeful belief than thinking we all end up just being worm food.
I would also like to hear what skeptics and others think about the subject. Thank you for making a new topic of it.
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What if men had been in subjection??
by FlyingHighNow inwhat would the wtbts be like if women were the leaders and men were in subjection?
would women treat men better than men have treated them?would the org.
be so controlling?would women be happier?would men and children be happier?would the org.
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particlesnwaves5
All this talk about subjection and do I think would I like to take the lead? Yes, sometimes, when I have a good idea, I would like to be in charge of implementing it, delegating aspects of it to capable people, and making sure there is follow through. I do take the lead, at times at work. There is quite a bit of satisfaction in accomplishing things and being responsible.
Hey, what mother is not a leader?
But, being in control of other adult people, to the point where they believe their eternal lives hinge on my favorable regard???????? I think a person would have to be extremely deluded to want that type of position.
I think the hardest thing in the world is gaining mastery over my own self. Sometimes I think that is what tyrants are all about--they have no idea how to rein in themselves or even have enough awareness to realize they have a problem so they strive to control others, they distract themselves from their real problem and deficit.
In many cultures, the shaman is a woman. I think women are quite capable of inspiring others spiritually.I think it is the power structure in many religions that is the problem.
I think real spirituality is an individual journey and the real challenge is guiding one's self to a place of peace and compassion, connecting with the Great Spirit that is willing to lead us all.
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What if men had been in subjection??
by FlyingHighNow inwhat would the wtbts be like if women were the leaders and men were in subjection?
would women treat men better than men have treated them?would the org.
be so controlling?would women be happier?would men and children be happier?would the org.
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particlesnwaves5
Sounds like somebody has some issues, man.