Posts by grows1

20

Hypocrite Greenies

by grows1 in

there are many people in the world who consider themselves "green" advocates and "green" friendly.

like john kerry- has 7-8 houses, private jets, @ 6 really big gas guzzling autos, including suv's.

people who talk green but whose lifesytles reveal their true sentiments.

Unlike some of your I depend on DOCUMENTED research and FACTS to back up my claims......... Comments regarding vegetation around the Mt. St. Helen blast site?? http://my.erinet.com/~jwoolf/cascades5.html After the eruption, Congress took a lot of Weyerhaeuser's land and turned it into Mt St Helens National Volcano Monument. By a happy coincidence, the monument lands included some but not all of the "blast zone," the region which was stripped bare by the May 18th eruption. This let Weyerhaeuser and the USFS set up a simple experiment. While the monument lands were left to recover naturally, Weyerhaeuser threw a huge amount of resources into clearing, replanting, and artificially accelerating the regrowth of forests on its lands. After 22 years, the contrast between the natural and artificially-enhanced lands is quite striking. The natural lands are recovering very slowly, while the Weyerhaeuser lands have a lush growth of fresh young trees. It's far from being a replacement for the forest that was there before, but it's also a long way ahead of the "natural" area. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/04/000427080345.htm For the last 10 years, Washington State University Vancouver Biology professor John Bishop has been asking those questions and studying the reemergence of life on Mount St. Helens. His work takes place in the most devastated area on the mountain's north side, between the crater and Spirit Lake, named the Pumice Plains. "There was no biological legacy left," Bishop said. "Plants, animals, bacteria and organic matter were all blown away, burned or buried by rock." In 1981, a single lupine plant (Lupinus lepidus) was found in the Pumice Plains much to the surprise of ecologists. This plant was several kilometers from any surviving vegetation. According to Bishop this was amazing considering lupine seeds are rather large without adaptation for dispersal. The question of how the seeds were dispersed still remains???. "It's much like you plant beans or peas in your garden to replenish the soil," Bishop said. "Lupines add nutrients back into the ecosystem. Most plants couldn't live here [the plains] without the lupine, although that has changed by now." Today lupine patches more than 20 acres in size exist on the Pumice Plains and new vegetation has grown in areas where lupine first settled. Lupine was thought to act as an "ecosystem engineer" accelerating and encouraging revegetation. "People had high expectations for lupines to spread but this didn't really happen," Bishop said. "As a graduate student in the early '90s, I saw that the lupine weren't spreading and became interested in why. I found lupines here and there, but they weren't flourishing like the original patch. Now a lot of things like to eat lupine. I found that insects were preventing lupines from reproducing so fast. They were running the revegetation show." What Bishop found were caterpillars. Caterpillars were boring and living in the root of lupine plants, feeding on lupine seeds and weaving little protective tunnels out of leaves and gravel. Bishop's work in this area focuses on primary succession--an ecological term for starting from scratch. "Our work is one of the first examples of herbivores controlling revegetation. The larger question is whether herbivores in general control plant populations," Bishop said. Bishop's other research on Mount St. Helens has focused on the evolutionary impacts of colonization and the "founder effect." Currently Bishop is also researching why there are no herbivores in the center of the lupine patch. At the edge of the patch, where the number of lupines thins out, more herbivores are found. http://www.drizzle.com/~sunnym/helens.htm On Johnston ridge, where the final visitor center is located, there are some shrubs on the ground (as you see in the picture below), but the simple fact that this area is not fully revegetated with ferns and wildflowers and blueberries only speaks to the power of the Earth... that in the span of a few short seconds a very large area could be so completely wiped out that even 20 years later, nothing would grow in the soil. That the eruption had more power than just the amount of ash it dumped or the top of the mountain that is now strewn across the countryside... That the gases and chemicals released and shoved with full force into the dirt and soil so hard and so deep would have such a lasting impact on the ecosystem. This area looks like it was dropped here from another place... scooped up from a desert and plopped in the middle of lush Northwest forests. The boundaries are as abrupt as that. Very scary. Very powerful. Very soothing to know that no matter what we (people) do to the Earth, that nature is five-million times more powerful than we could ever be, both constructively and destructively. http://www.altx.com/ebr/ebr4/mcelroy.htm ??..The area of devastation around what the Klickitat Indians call Fire Mountain was pretty complete on the north side segment. Observers likened the blast to a nuclear explosion. Of course they did. A billion board feet of lumber destroyed. Mudslides thirty feet deep burying areas around Spirit Lake, which is virtually at the foot of the mountain's northwest slope, and raising its level drastically. A "moonscape" of "otherworldly shapes and smells," the journalist tosses off, ignoring how "otherworldly" virtually denies what he is saying?if it was ever clear to begin with. The magma smell of mineral rubble for that was what St. Helens was built on from previous eruptions: pumice, pyroclastic debris, gray fine-grained andesite lava, dark, glassy dacite dome material. In less than a day 21 million yards of debris were transported down to the Columbia channel, enough to fill 500 miles of dumptrucks and in fact cause a ship to ground out??? In minutes trees were knocked down over an area of a hundred and fifty square miles. In the immediate zone arrays of gray blowdown trunks arranged like iron filings in the directions of that killing changing wind cover the slopes and look less like logs than an alternative cover or wrapping laid down in sweeping floats of hatchmarks at various angles??.Willow and cottonwood have come back where there are underground springs, and elk and deer have come back to browse on them which in turn has encouraged growth. I am a fool to waste consciousness wondering why growth so moves us. I had better say, "me." What the area and the mountain have most curiously "done" for years now is what most marks the scientists' reports of studies at Mt. St. Helens since the eruption of 1980. What the earth has done and (we like to think reciprocally) what we have done. It is new growth out of the ashes ???.Pocket gophers that actually survived the blast under large deposits of ash?a volcanic winter?helped the revegetation process. Almost all birds in the subalpine zone were killed instantly by the eruption; bird populations vary now with plant variety?Pine Creek was much affected because coniferous trees went down and with them seeds. Twenty lakes in the blast zone felt it in their chemistry, but microbial activity brought them back within the first two years. You find particular beetle species depending the particular "blast event" at that site: pyroclastic/debris site dominated by ground beetles and tiger beetles. (Our family knows that ground beetles hide during the day; is that how they survived? Tiger beetles hard to catch, sometimes green iridescent backs like a Tlingit mask, and will bite you, a child once told me.) The news and the research reports carry a similar reassurance?. http://www.ornl.gov/info/reporter/no16/lnjune_00.htm ???Virginia told Newsday that, of 286 plant species present before the eruption, 156 had re-established themselves on the debris avalanche by 1994. Areas that were strewn with huge, dead trees are now green again with head-high saplings. She and other researchers remarked on how rapidly many species reestablished themselves after such seemingly utter destruction, and the lessons it offered about other kinds of disturbances. ?The real value of all these studies is what we can learn about management for other human-created systems,? Virginia told The New York Times. ?We have strip mines and roadsides and all kinds of devastation created by human activities.? ????? http://www.rsiphotos.com/gallery_detail.php?CategoryID=6&PhotoID=90 Photos can be viewed at the above website. If you are interested in educating your woefully inadequate minds, I suggest you visit some of the above websites or find some on your own.

20

Hypocrite Greenies

by grows1 in

there are many people in the world who consider themselves "green" advocates and "green" friendly.

like john kerry- has 7-8 houses, private jets, @ 6 really big gas guzzling autos, including suv's.

people who talk green but whose lifesytles reveal their true sentiments.

grows1

Do you protest the lifestyles of the elite? That?s what my whole article was about- elitists royals (by birth, blood, politics and/or power) who espouse rules for us (the dirty unwashed masses) to live by but don?t think any of it applies to themselves Do you write your politicians? All the time Do you participate in local beach/park clean-ups? Not organized cleanups- I bring xtra garbage bags (paper) when I go and clean up all the trash left by others Do you volunteer in your community? Every chance I get Do you cook from scratch? Almost every day. Freeze and reuse. Never throw away food. Have a dog and 2 birds that loves table scraps-nothing goes to waste Do you buy local? Every chance I get. Do you promote peaceful, positive energy? What is that? Do you mean vibes or real energy- like nuclear, fossil fuels, coal. If you mean real energy then yes, I advocate finding and using all of them and nuclear energy,too. Do you use phosphate-free household cleaning products? No. phosphate is a fertilizer. My ditch is the brown water recipient of my washing machine. I have wild lilies and other unknown named plants that thrive in my brown water. I have the most beautiful ditch in the area. Do you eat seasonal, local produce? Yes. Go to the local farmers markets all the time. Do you take your own bags to the grocery store? Have 3 lg mesh reusable bags that have some holes from being used so much- can't stand the smell of plastic bags. Do use paper bags I get from the grocers as small trash cans liners. Do you practice preventive health? Yes and no Do you use non-aerosol products? Yes for personal and no for bug spray- I draw the line with Bengal bug spray. Will NOT live with bugs. Eco friendly has it limits. Do you boycott Walmart? No. Buy most of my stuff from local merchants but cannot buy everything locally. Live in a small semirural community. Do you help the poor? Yes Do you eat farmed fish? Yes and no. Buy farm raised fish off season ( is there any other kind in Mississippi) except for the fish my friends and family catch. Do buy fresh fish, shrimp, crabs right off the boats here on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. Do you wear Nike or other sweatshop-produced products? Buy Klog shoes for work and home- made in USA I am a conservationist but not a tree hugging, nature worshipping eco crazy. I believe that God gave us this planet as our home to have dominion over but to use wisely, to His glory. I believe that trees are a RENEWABLE resource and are here for our use, not to be worshipped. Do I believe that we should strip the planet? Of course not! But I think that the reasonable harvesting of trees is beneficial for both man, animals and plants. I don't know where you live but here in the south it is impossible to strip the planet of vegetation. You can ROUNDUP till you are blue in the face and the next week there is a jungle growing where you swear you just killed any and all vegetation. Try not mowing your lawn for 2 weeks down here and see if your neighborhood association doesn't take you to court for being an eyesore. I have honeysuckle growing 25 feet up my pine trees (and 50 feet in all directions) and threatening to overtake my neighbor's yard. Trumpet vines I planted have multiplied beyond belief. Wild blackberry plants thrive in vacant lots near me. You have to be the world's biggest black thumb to kill anything down here. Pine trees are harvested around me all the time and you would not believe how FAST new trees and other vegetation grows up in bare land. Within a month you can not even tell that there was once bare land there. Now if this takes place in poor soil places like Mississippi what does that tell you about places that have rich soils? Do you really believe that the Amazon CAN be destroyed by anything other than a global catastrophe????? I believe that we should explore, mine, drill and use our own oil, gas and coal where ever we find it. Don't want oil wells off your shores or energy plants in your back yard? Fine. Then I don't think that YOU (meaning states that have denied drilling and mining permits) should get any energy from those states and people who DO allow it- like Texas, Louisiana, Okla, etc. Develop your own sources of energy however you can. In the meantime try not to cut down all of your forests warming yourselves during the winter months or try cooling your homes in FLA or Calif with all of that hot air your eco friendly politicans blow off. I do not think that we should be dependent on foreign sources for our energy. I also think that we, as a society, should develop solar and nuclear energy. But I don't think that the gov should pay for it- anything the gov funds tends to stay in research for generations and never gets developed beyond the research funding stages (except NASA). I think that PRIVATE investors should pay for it. If you believe in something enough put YOUR money into it-NOT MINE or someone elses. Don't steal from someone else to fund your dreams. Another thing I was trying to get people to think about was how some of us (me included) tend to think that everyone who doesn't think or act like us is somehow evil or greedy. What kind of car someone drives is not really my or your business. This is a free country. We are free to own however many houses and cars we want. I may not like it but we ARE free to choose to buy SUV's or minicars if we like. What I do object to is people who are green hypocrites like the elitists who want the rest of us to live in a one lightbulb shack groveling at their feet, while they rule from the estates, private islands, villas and castles of Europe and America.

20

Were the pre-flood people that wicked?

by indoubt in

i have to say upfront that i am not sure about anything at this point of my life (i.e.

but i am trying to believe that there is a god, and that he is loving and cares about us...

i saw horrific pictures the other day about the floods that just occurred in dominican republic.

grows1

Indoubt You have read one of my favorite astrophysicists articles. I truly enjoy his articles. Now to the destruction of people, animals etc during the flood. Nachmanides alludes to a state of PHYSICAL corruption in his readings of Genesis. Genesis states that Noah was perfect in his day and a man that followed God. My thoughts- Could this mean more than just moral corruption- maybe a physical corruption of the genetics in the living beings in that day? Meaning that maybe Noah and his bloodline were in some way the only pure genetically pure beings left at the time of the flood? Corruption is not just a psychological events- it could also denote physical attributes. When thinking along those terms, cell cultures are referred to as corrupted when contaminated by particles or cells from a different group, thereby rendering them impure and useless for reasons of research or identification. We tend to think in human terms because we are human. Maybe there is more to the story of Genesis than just the obvious- a deeper meaning that we, as humans, are unable to comprehend, at this time or at any time. Nachmanides is an interesting 13th century Jewish sage who wrote about the 10 dimensions of our universe 700 yrs ago. Now physicists are confirming his writings. If you can, buy or borrow his commentary on the Torah. You will be amazed by that 13th century mind.

20

Hypocrite Greenies

by grows1 in

there are many people in the world who consider themselves "green" advocates and "green" friendly.

like john kerry- has 7-8 houses, private jets, @ 6 really big gas guzzling autos, including suv's.

people who talk green but whose lifesytles reveal their true sentiments.

grows1

There are many people in the world who consider themselves "green" advocates and "green" friendly. Like John Kerry- has 7-8 houses, private jets, @ 6 really BIG gas guzzling autos, including SUV's. People who talk green but whose lifesytles reveal their true sentiments. What they REALLY mean is that they want YOU to live a life of bare necessities and of want, but that they feel that the rules and regs they want everyone else to live by don't apply to themselves.They are the elites of the world- the John Kerry's, the Bill Clinton's, Al Gore's, Prince Charles' and the "Royals" of the world- if not by birth then by politics and power. And, of course,lets not forget the most hypocritical bunch in the world- the Hollywood crowd. They live life to the fullest and largest- no busses, bikes,trains, no no-class airlines or walking for them. No 1000 sq ft homes, limited to one each. No energy conservation or rationing for them. The best and most of everything, in large quantities, is their motto. Limos, Rolls, MB's, Lexus SUV's, Cadillac SUV's (always 2 or 3 ,too), private jets, mansions beyond the low classes wildest imaginations (in more than 2 or 3 countries- so that they can relax in the most serene surroundings at the best times of the year, unbothered by all of us unwashed masses). Rationing, conservation and a utilitarian lifestyle is for the peasants and 2nd and 3rd class citizens of the world- us. So how does YOUR lifestyle add up, greenie wise. Do you live in a modest home of less than 1,000 sq ft if you are single? Less than 3,000 sq ft for a family? Do you use less than 1,000 KWH a month for a single person or less than 2,000 for a family? Do you walk where ever you can to save fuel? Do you use public transportation if it is available? Do you bunch trips together to save fuel? Do you use recycled paper? How about toilet paper made from recycled material? Do you use glass reusable container instead of plastic? How about cloth rags instead of paper towels? If you have little ones do you use cloth diapers or dispo ones, glass bottles or dispo liner ones? There are a million ways to conserve. How "green" are you? And do you really have a right to complain about someone elses auto using too much gas if you are living a life in other ways that belies your "green" stated beliefs? How much of a green hypocrite are you?

159

The Answer to high Gas Prices.....

by ThiChi in

any thoughts on mr. taylor?s claims?.

u.s. demands greater oil output, lower prices.

"finance ministers from the united states and other major industrialized countries, hoping to affect the outcome of a battle within the organization for the petroleum exporting countries, formally demanded yesterday that oil-exporting nations raise production and lower prices to a level 'that is consistent with lasting economic prosperity,'" the new york times reports.

grows1

The US economy drives the world's economy. If the USA doesn't buy other countries products then more than likely the products don't get sold. Period. France is a good example. When a lot of people in the USA refused to buy France's products because of their ACTIVELY undermining of US policies in Iraq, the French economy slipped, no careened, into the pits by about 20-25%. Where were all of the other buyers in the world that should have benefitted from the price drops and availability??? Nowhere, that's where. Nobody else in the world jumped in to take up the slack because no one else in the world has the money that we have. So our being the 5% that buy's everything up will remain the 5% who buys everything up because most other countries DO NOT HAVE THE DISPOSABLE INCOME THAT WE HAVE- all or most of their income goes to buy their meager necessities or paying for the enormous tax burdens of the socailized European countries. Poor countries of the world are dying to sell us their goods so that they can lift their destitute populations out of poverty. If we don't buy their products who will? Their equally poor neighbors who can't even afford to feed their own families because they don't have good jobs? Maybe you are satisfied with your lot in life (because you have a good job and income) but there are billions around the world who are literally dying to sell us (or anyone) their products so that they can also have enough to eat and maybe offer their kids a better future. I don't feel at all guilty about consuming products that no one else has money to buy- maybe they will in the future if we continue to buy their stuff.

159

The Answer to high Gas Prices.....

by ThiChi in

any thoughts on mr. taylor?s claims?.

u.s. demands greater oil output, lower prices.

"finance ministers from the united states and other major industrialized countries, hoping to affect the outcome of a battle within the organization for the petroleum exporting countries, formally demanded yesterday that oil-exporting nations raise production and lower prices to a level 'that is consistent with lasting economic prosperity,'" the new york times reports.

grows1

Article on naturally refilling wells.........Sustainable oil?
Posted: May 25, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Chris Bennett
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

About 80 miles off of the coast of Louisiana lies a mostly submerged mountain, the top of which is known as Eugene Island. The portion underwater is an eerie-looking, sloping tower jutting up from the depths of the Gulf of Mexico, with deep fissures and perpendicular faults which spontaneously spew natural gas. A significant reservoir of crude oil was discovered nearby in the late '60s, and by 1970, a platform named Eugene 330 was busily producing about 15,000 barrels a day of high-quality crude oil.

By the late '80s, the platform's production had slipped to less than 4,000 barrels per day, and was considered pumped out. Done. Suddenly, in 1990, production soared back to 15,000 barrels a day, and the reserves which had been estimated at 60 million barrels in the '70s, were recalculated at 400 million barrels. Interestingly, the measured geological age of the new oil was quantifiably different than the oil pumped in the '70s.

Analysis of seismic recordings revealed the presence of a "deep fault" at the base of the Eugene Island reservoir which was gushing up a river of oil from some deeper and previously unknown source.

Similar results were seen at other Gulf of Mexico oil wells. Similar results were found in the Cook Inlet oil fields in Alaska. Similar results were found in oil fields in Uzbekistan. Similarly in the Middle East, where oil exploration and extraction have been underway for at least the last 20 years, known reserves have doubled. Currently there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 680 billion barrels of Middle East reserve oil.

Creating that much oil would take a big pile of dead dinosaurs and fermenting prehistoric plants. Could there be another source for crude oil?

An intriguing theory now permeating oil company research staffs suggests that crude oil may actually be a natural inorganic product, not a stepchild of unfathomable time and organic degradation. The theory suggests there may be huge, yet-to-be-discovered reserves of oil at depths that dwarf current world estimates.

The theory is simple: Crude oil forms as a natural inorganic process which occurs between the mantle and the crust, somewhere between 5 and 20 miles deep. The proposed mechanism is as follows:

* Methane (CH4) is a common molecule found in quantity throughout our solar system ? huge concentrations exist at great depth in the Earth.

* At the mantle-crust interface, roughly 20,000 feet beneath the surface, rapidly rising streams of compressed methane-based gasses hit pockets of high temperature causing the condensation of heavier hydrocarbons. The product of this condensation is commonly known as crude oil.

* Some compressed methane-based gasses migrate into pockets and reservoirs we extract as "natural gas."

* In the geologically "cooler," more tectonically stable regions around the globe, the crude oil pools into reservoirs.

* In the "hotter," more volcanic and tectonically active areas, the oil and natural gas continue to condense and eventually to oxidize, producing carbon dioxide and steam, which exits from active volcanoes.

* Periodically, depending on variations of geology and Earth movement, oil seeps to the surface in quantity, creating the vast oil-sand deposits of Canada and Venezuela, or the continual seeps found beneath the Gulf of Mexico and Uzbekistan.

* Periodically, depending on variations of geology, the vast, deep pools of oil break free and replenish existing known reserves of oil.

There are a number of observations across the oil-producing regions of the globe that support this theory, and the list of proponents begins with Mendelev (who created the periodic table of elements) and includes Dr.Thomas Gold (founding director of Cornell University Center for Radiophysics and Space Research) and Dr. J.F. Kenney of Gas Resources Corporations, Houston, Texas.

In his 1999 book, "The Deep Hot Biospere," Dr. Gold presents compelling evidence for inorganic oil formation. He notes that geologic structures where oil is found all correspond to "deep earth" formations, not the haphazard depositions we find with sedimentary rock, associated fossils or even current surface life.

He also notes that oil extracted from varying depths from the same oil field have the same chemistry ? oil chemistry does not vary as fossils vary with increasing depth. Also interesting is the fact that oil is found in huge quantities among geographic formations where assays of prehistoric life are not sufficient to produce the existing reservoirs of oil. Where then did it come from?

Another interesting fact is that every oil field throughout the world has outgassing helium. Helium is so often present in oil fields that helium detectors are used as oil-prospecting tools. Helium is an inert gas known to be a fundamental product of the radiological decay or uranium and thorium, identified in quantity at great depths below the surface of the earth, 200 and more miles below. It is not found in meaningful quantities in areas that are not producing methane, oil or natural gas. It is not a member of the dozen or so common elements associated with life. It is found throughout the solar system as a thoroughly inorganic product.

Even more intriguing is evidence that several oil reservoirs around the globe are refilling themselves, such as the Eugene Island reservoir ? not from the sides, as would be expected from cocurrent organic reservoirs, but from the bottom up.

Dr. Gold strongly believes that oil is a "renewable, primordial soup continually manufactured by the Earth under ultrahot conditions and tremendous pressures. As this substance migrates toward the surface, it is attached by bacteria, making it appear to have an organic origin dating back to the dinosaurs."

Smaller oil companies and innovative teams are using this theory to justify deep oil drilling in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico, among other locations, with some success. Dr. Kenney is on record predicting that parts of Siberia contain a deep reservoir of oil equal to or exceeding that already discovered in the Middle East.

Could this be true?

In August 2002, in the "Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (US)," Dr. Kenney published a paper, which had a partial title of "The genesis of hydrocarbons and the origin of petroleum." Dr. Kenney and three Russian coauthors conclude:

The Hydrogen-Carbon system does not spontaneously evolve hydrocarbons at pressures less than 30 Kbar, even in the most favorable environment. The H-C system evolves hydrocarbons under pressures found in the mantle of the Earth and at temperatures consistent with that environment.

He was quoted as stating that "competent physicists, chemists, chemical engineers and men knowledgeable of thermodynamics have known that natural petroleum does not evolve from biological materials since the last quarter of the 19th century."

Deeply entrenched in our culture is the belief that at some point in the relatively near future we will see the last working pump on the last functioning oil well screech and rattle, and that will be that. The end of the Age of Oil. And unless we find another source of cheap energy, the world will rapidly become a much darker and dangerous place.

If Dr. Gold and Dr. Kenney are correct, this "the end of the world as we know it" scenario simply won't happen. Think about it ... while not inexhaustible, deep Earth reserves of inorganic crude oil and commercially feasible extraction would provide the world with generations of low-cost fuel. Dr. Gold has been quoted saying that current worldwide reserves of crude oil could be off by a factor of over 100.

A Hedberg Conference, sponsored by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, was scheduled to discuss and publicly debate this issue. Papers were solicited from interested academics and professionals. The conference was scheduled to begin June 9, 2003, but was canceled at the last minute. A new date has yet to be set.

Hypocrisy? Contradiction?

by Simon in

it's kind of ironic that in the same week that photo's of princess dianna lying dying in a mangled car wreckage are broadcast to little outcry that there seems to be a lot of ballyhoo about photo's of carefully arranged coffins carrying us troops back home.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/world/europe/04/22/diana.photos/index.html.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/us/south/04/22/mortuary.photos.ap/index.html.

grows1

Pictures or video's of Diana's (or anybody's) last minutes on this earth are intrusive, disgusting, disrespectful, in poor taste and demeaning. And that's the nice things about them. For people to try to capitalize off of another human being's suffering and/or death is the lowest form of human greed. The pictures of the soldiers coffins are in the same category- someone trying to capitalize on someone else's death. What is even worse is that there are enough people in this world to make these kinds of things profitable. A pox on all their houses!!!!!

36

So what exactly IS an apostate?

by somebodylovesme in

i was under the impression that an apostate was anyone who left the witnesses, was df'ed/da'ed, or was just actively opposed to them.

but i was reading in my hubby's old "reasoning book" that an apostate is one who professes to believe in christ (but not the jws), claims to serve god (but is not a jw), tries to pull away current jws or attack them.

so, by that definition, would someone who fades away and professes no religion still be considered an apostate if he or she didn't try to take anyone with them and did not attack the religion?.

grows1

Who is an apostate???

APOSTATE

Definition:

1. [n] a disloyal person who betrays or deserts his cause or religion or political party or friend etc.

2. [adj] not faithful to religion or party or cause

Synonyms: deserter, ratter, recreant, renegade, unfaithful See Also: quitter

Webster's 1913 Dictionary Definition:

1. \A*pos"tate\, n. [L. apostata, Gr. ?, fr. ?. See

2. {Apostasy}.]

3. 1. One who has forsaken the faith, principles, or party, to

4. which he before adhered; esp., one who has forsaken his

5. religion for another; a pervert; a renegade.

7. 2. (R. C. Ch.) One who, after having received sacred orders,

8. renounces his clerical profession.

11. \A*pos"tate\, a.

12. Pertaining to, or characterized by, apostasy; faithless to

13. moral allegiance; renegade.

15. So spake the apostate angel. --

17. A wretched and apostate state. --Steele.

20. \A*pos"tate\, v. i. [L. apostatare.]

21. To apostatize. [Obs.]

23. We are not of them which apostate from Christ. --Bp.

Thesaurus Terms Related Terms: atheist, atheistic, backslider, backsliding, blasphemer, blasphemous, bolter, collaborationist, collaborative, collaborator, convert, defector, degenerate, demurrer, deserter, disloyal, dissenter, dissentient, dissident, faithless, fallen, fallen from grace, fifth columnist, impious, irreligious, irreverent, lapsed, mugwump, nonconformist, objector, opinionist, opposition voice, profanatory, profane, proselyte, protestant, protester, quisling, rat, recidivist, recidivistic, recreant, recusant, renegade, renegado, renegate, reversionist, runagate, Sabbath-breaker, sacrilegious, sacrilegist, schismatic, seceder, secessionist, sectarian, sectary, separatist, strikebreaker, tergiversant, tergiversating, tergiversator, traitor, traitorous, treasonable, treasonous, turnabout, turncoat, turntail, unbeliever, undutiful.......

By this definition, just about anyone and everyone is or was a religion different from the religion they were "born" into or was raised in is an apostate- including most JW's.

1

Should jws work for certain employers?

by badboy in

jw
friends

.

i understand that certain companies/employers donate to babylon the great.. should a jw therefore work for such people?

grows1

Why not? Since becoming a UN NGO the WTBTS IS Babylon The Great by their own org's definition!!!!

6

The arab god... singular or plural

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

i was looking around on the arabnews.com web site and i found the following "question from a reader".... the person writing the answer sounds a lot like a jw... "oh no... just because god refers to himself in the plural does not mean he really is.

sadly, the very next qfr is where someone is wondering if it is ok to raise his hands while saying a prayer.

i'm reminded of the legalistic bs of the organization.

grows1

This is what I found when perusing the Koran by topic.

The Koran

On Creation and on GOD

Creation of everything

- in due measure and proportion 54:49

- in opposite duality 36:36,43:12,51:49

4:41. But how (will it be with them) when We bring of every people a witness, and We bring thee (O Muhammad) a witness against these?

16:40. And Our word unto a thing, when We intend it, is only that We say unto it: Be! and it is.

17:71. On the day when We shall summon all men with their record, whoso is given his book in his right hand - such will read their book and they will not be wronged a shred.

21:47. And We set a just balance for the Day of Resurrection so that no soul is wronged in aught. Though it be of the weight of a grain of mustard seed, We bring it. And We suffice for reckoners.

21:48. And We verily gave Moses and Aaron the Criterion (of right and wrong) and a light and a Reminder for those who keep from evil,

21:30. Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?

21:31. And We have placed in the earth firm hills lest it quake with them, and We have placed therein ravines as roads that haply they may find their way.

21:32. And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.

21:34. We appointed immortality for no mortal before thee. What! if thou diest, can they be immortal!

21:35. Every soul must taste of death, and We try you with evil and with good, for ordeal. And unto Us ye will be returned.

21:36. And when those who disbelieve behold thee, they but choose thee out for mockery, (saying): Is this he who maketh mention of your gods? And they would deny all mention of the Beneficent.

26:208. And We destroyed no township but it had its warners 26:209. For reminder, for We never were oppressors.

36:65. This day We seal up their mouths, and their hands speak out to Us and their feet bear witness as to what they used to earn.

36:66. And had We willed, We verily could have quenched their eyesight so that they should struggle for the way. Then how could they have seen?

36:67. And had We willed, We verily could have fixed them in their place, making them powerless to go forward or turn back.

41:39. And of His portents (is this): that thou seest the earth lowly, but when We send down water thereon it thrilleth and groweth. Lo! He Who quickeneth it is verily the Quickener of the Dead. Lo! He is Able to do all things.

41:40. Lo! those who distort Our revelations are not hid from Us. Is he who is hurled into the Fire better, or he who cometh secure on the Day of Resurrection? Do what ye will. Lo! He is Seer of what ye do.

42:52. And thus have We inspired in thee (Muhammad) a Spirit of Our command. Thou knewest not what the Scripture was, nor what the Faith. But We have made it a light whereby We guide whom We will of Our bondmen. And lo! thou verily dost guide unto a right path,

43:55. So, when they angered Us, We punished them and drowned them every one.

43:56. And We made them a thing past, and an example for those after (them).

43:57. And when the son of Mary is quoted as an example, behold! the folk laugh out,

43:58. And say: Are our gods better, or is he? They raise not the objection save for argument. Nay! but they are a contentious folk.

43:59. He is nothing but a slave on whom We bestowed favour, and We made him a pattern for the Children of Israel.

43:60. And had We willed We could have set among you angels to be viceroys in the earth.

50:30. On the day when We say unto hell: Art thou filled? and it saith: Can there be more to come?

51:47. We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).

51:48. And the earth have We laid out, how gracious is the Spreader (thereof)!

51:49. And all things We have created by pairs, that haply ye may reflect

76: 2. Lo! We create man from a drop of thickened fluid to test him; so We make him hearing, knowing.

76: 3. Lo! We have shown him the way, whether he be grateful or disbelieving

95: 4. Surely We created man of the best stature

Pickthal's Quran Translations

(Who is the WE in these verses if the Divineness of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are not being expressed here as being of and in the ONENESS of the GODHEAD) ??????????

This is a tract that I use to approach Muslims. Gives them something to think about.