LOL! No not really but it still would be nice to know where the stake doctrine came from.
astridkittie
JoinedPosts by astridkittie
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Argh!!!! An observation...
by astridkittie ini was trying to find an article on the wbts website about jesus' death that would give some history references about the stake issue... after a while i got rather frustrated when i was coming up empty handed.
then the realization dawned upon me that it seems that the publications for the public never seem to have any research article references... just scriptural ones, and then when an interested one "progresses", they start gaining access to the "deeper" publications with research references... of course, you're only supposed to refer to the references they give you most of the time, lol.
i may be wrong since i grew up in the organization and didn't get to experience coming in on my own, but it feels uncannily true, and it makes sense for them, toss them a scripture to make them feel like they've discovered a wonderful new point of view and then throw in some "worldly" references to hammer it in that it's the truth!
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Argh!!!! An observation...
by astridkittie ini was trying to find an article on the wbts website about jesus' death that would give some history references about the stake issue... after a while i got rather frustrated when i was coming up empty handed.
then the realization dawned upon me that it seems that the publications for the public never seem to have any research article references... just scriptural ones, and then when an interested one "progresses", they start gaining access to the "deeper" publications with research references... of course, you're only supposed to refer to the references they give you most of the time, lol.
i may be wrong since i grew up in the organization and didn't get to experience coming in on my own, but it feels uncannily true, and it makes sense for them, toss them a scripture to make them feel like they've discovered a wonderful new point of view and then throw in some "worldly" references to hammer it in that it's the truth!
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astridkittie
I was trying to find an article on the WBTS website about Jesus' death that would give some history references about the stake issue... after a while I got rather frustrated when I was coming up empty handed. Then the realization dawned upon me that it seems that the publications for the public never seem to have any research article references... just scriptural ones, and then when an interested one "progresses", they start gaining access to the "deeper" publications with research references... of course, you're only supposed to refer to the references they give you most of the time, lol. I may be wrong since I grew up in the organization and didn't get to experience coming in on my own, but it feels uncannily true, and it makes sense for them, toss them a scripture to make them feel like they've discovered a wonderful new point of view and then throw in some "worldly" references to hammer it in that it's the truth! A fact!
Anyone else notice this trend? It would also be helpful if someone could toss me one of their history references that says that criminals were traditionally crucified on stakes during the Roman Empire... somehow I remember them having at least one... I could be mistaken though.
Omg, it felt so wierd to see a picture of him nailed to a stake again too... brought back alot of old memories and feelings at once... oddly enough, my first reaction was that of wanting to run. Not run from Jesus, lol, just... it wasn't him in that picture somehow. It was like looking at a picture of a demon and then that demon trying to reach out and grab you. Your first reaction to a demon trying to grab you? Run. That's one really good lesson I learned, lol. ;) -
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Are there any Newbies out there???
by Sassy ini was just wondering if there were any new members out there who haven't yet said hello... if so.. please come in and say hi here.. .
its an easy way to get started.. .
i know there are those who will read/lurk for a while but one day they jump in and say hi.... .
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astridkittie
I'm new and I've sort of introduced myself but I still tend to not say much... don't really have anything interesting to say most of the time.
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I just stumbled upon a Witness's site... hmmm...
by somebodylovesme inhttp://www.angelfire.com/blog/the_voice/ .
lots of articles if anyone's interested.
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astridkittie
Has anyone noticed that there is no mention of the WTBS on the website as being the author of those articles? Isn't that like a copyright infringement or something?
Or did I just miss the mention of the WTBS? -
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Anyone see Passion of the Christ yet?
by astridkittie ini went to see it thursday... and i must say... this movie had me sobbing from grief and shock.
it really opened my eyes to what jc went through.
you know, you always hear about him being beat 68 times with a cat of nine tails but then you look at the picture of a man with some criss crosses on his back and it just doesn't click with you that 68 times should be alot worse than that picture... when i came home after that, it was all i could do to restrain myself from burning every picture of him like that in every publication in my house, and i wouldn't have restrained myself if those publications were mine, but they're all my dub grandmother's, and i'm sure i would've been accused of having a demon in me if i had, lol.
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astridkittie
I'm sorry, I looked for other posts but actually didn't find any when I made this one. :(
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Incense Burning - Geez, These Guys Have a Rule For Everything!
by worldlygirl inthere seems to be a problem with incense burning now!
this is from the watchtower website: http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/2003/6/1/article_01.htm.
a) they are running out of crap to publish.
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astridkittie
Did anyone notice their reference to John 4:24?
is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." -
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The Passion of the Christ movie
by Steve Lowry inwell, i just saw the movie yesterday and i'll tell ya something.
considering the reviews about how moving this movie had been for so many people, i secretly was hoping that seeing this movie might help me with my current state of disbelief and apathy about the person of jesus.
but sadly it had only the opposite effect.
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astridkittie
You know... I'm not really studied enough in the idea of grace to be explaining it, at least, I couldn't explain it in any way that would make much sense right now, as I'm struggling with some belief issues of my own in that area, but... I do know where you're coming from about not feeling anything about the Bible and Jesus and all... I didn't either for a really long time. And I think it's good that you're going through this, because now I realize that period of complete coldness helped me to be completely free of any doctrines or beliefs that could injure my ability to decide for myself where my spirituality would lead me, not to mention it kept me from latching on to another religion without knowing my own spiritual convictions. When you come out of the JWs, your spirituality is really screwed up. You've learned that your "only true religion" is a lie, but you're still stuck thinking there has to be one true religion, and you look all over the place for it only to be disheartened and turned to stone when it comes to religion. The reason why it's so good that you go through this is to keep you from immediately jumping into another religion just to replace the Society's pacification. It gives you the oppurtunity to gain your own spiritual freedom. The only issue is you probably still think that spirituality is all about what religion you follow, and the truth is, most probably no religion around is going to suit your individual needs. Most of what Jesus taught actually lent spiritual freedom and flexability... some people can fit into the box of a particular religion and be perfectly happy, but most have to make their own box, so to speak. Just like different people have different nutritional needs, different people have different spiritual needs.
I guess what I'm saying is... if believing in God and his love is enough for you, great. :) Just realize that religions aren't the only spiritual options you have for interpreting the Bible, and FIGHT IT if the WBTS has ruined the Bible and Jesus for you. It's just another trick to keep you from being true to yourself. -
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astridkittie
No dating, no body modifications *body piercings especially*, not being able to eat the bread at the Memorial really bugged me, especially when I was a kid, mainly because I'm such a curious person by nature I wanted to know what it tasted like and still do :P, and not being able to seriously consider other religious doctrines and other points of view, most of all developing my own independence of thought, bugged me most of all :P
In fact the last one was why I left... I tried to control my wanting to be independent thought-wise repeatedly, failed repeatedly, and finally got to feeling like such a hypocrite for having these feelings and staying in the organization that I figured I might as well leave and since I'm doomed already go ahead and indulge these feelings while I still could. -
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Anyone see Passion of the Christ yet?
by astridkittie ini went to see it thursday... and i must say... this movie had me sobbing from grief and shock.
it really opened my eyes to what jc went through.
you know, you always hear about him being beat 68 times with a cat of nine tails but then you look at the picture of a man with some criss crosses on his back and it just doesn't click with you that 68 times should be alot worse than that picture... when i came home after that, it was all i could do to restrain myself from burning every picture of him like that in every publication in my house, and i wouldn't have restrained myself if those publications were mine, but they're all my dub grandmother's, and i'm sure i would've been accused of having a demon in me if i had, lol.
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astridkittie
I went to see it Thursday... and I must say... this movie had me sobbing from grief and shock. It really opened my eyes to what JC went through. You know, you always hear about him being beat 68 times with a cat of nine tails but then you look at the picture of a man with some criss crosses on his back and it just doesn't click with you that 68 times should be alot worse than that picture... when I came home after that, it was all I could do to restrain myself from burning every picture of him like that in every publication in my house, and I wouldn't have restrained myself if those publications were mine, but they're all my dub grandmother's, and I'm sure I would've been accused of having a demon in me if I had, lol. But still... I felt so much anger, like I had been robbed of fully understanding the pain he went through... and at the same time, I felt horrible, because during that movie I wanted so badly to take his place so he wouldn't have to go through all that, I felt I don't deserve this kind of sacrifice, I deserve it 10 million times and over more than he did, I even thought for some moments that I would even prefer mankind to have stayed doomed than for him to make that kind of sacrifice... I mentioned that to some friends and they gave me a really odd look, lol. It's strange... I struggle with the idea of grace, not with accepting the idea that it's true, but with wanting it, because I really don't feel like I'm worth the trouble or deserve it, correction, I know I don't, and I have issues wanting it because I know I don't deserve it and well, it's like knowing someone you really, really love is in pain because they're trying to help you. You don't really want to accept that help, you just want to suffer and deal with it just so they won't be hurting. I mean, it's over and done with, over way before I was born, and I can't do anything about it, and that just kind of upsets me more, that I can't do anything about it and never could. Which I guess makes me feel even more guilty. Ugh. It's a mess, lol.
Well, um, I guess you can tell how moving that movie was for me... I was just wondering if anyone was just as moved by it as I was. I was also really impressed by the accuracy of it compared to other films that have been made about the same subject... there were some non biblical scenes in it, but they blended in nicely without getting doctrinal or bending the story so to speak. I'm not normally one to see a movie in the theater more than once, but I'm actually considering going back to see this one again. :) -
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Stumbling...
by astridkittie inin another post, someone made a reference to e-watchman's sudden call to duty.
i went to the link provided and when reading the sample letter decided to check out the 11-22-98 issue of the awake mentioned as being "un propaganda".
now... the first time i read this, i was shocked that i had read it before without blinking an eye as a jw.
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astridkittie
In another post, someone made a reference to E-Watchman's sudden call to duty. I went to the link provided and when reading the sample letter decided to check out the 11-22-98 issue of the Awake mentioned as being "UN propaganda". Now... the first time I read this, I was shocked that I had read it before without blinking an eye as a JW. Reading it a second time, I realized nothing in it actually promoted the UN... just provided information on it and then went on to say that it could never achieve what God's Kingdom would. Now I'm questioning if the rigidness I learned came from my fellow JWs or from the Society's literature itself (i.e. if I got the "UN is evil" idea from others or if the Society's literature elsewhere conveyed that idea to me) and... goodness, I can't even figure out how to word everything I'm confused about right now. Just if the Society is being a slippery snake to appear one way when actually making you think another way or if everyone's just misunderstanding it all or something and one part of me is wanting to hit the WBTS for being so conniving and fake and another part of me is wondering if maybe they're as innocent as they seem just people misunderstand what they're saying or something. I guess I really HAVEN'T figured out for myself whether what they say is the truth or not yet because what they say is always so... passive, or something, and when you read others criticizing parts of the literature it's usually archaic pieces of literature like from the 1970's and earlier or it's so nicely worded that whatever the person is saying about it almost seems false compared to the text because the text itself doesn't technically say anything that the person is denouncing, if that makes any sense at all.
More than anything I just have major issues with believing anything any more. It's like I'm constantly disbelieving everything, I think half the time I don't believe I even really exist, and then when I don't believe in anything it creates such a empty place in me full of confusion that I grab on to something that I WANT to believe *like untrustworthy people* just to keep myself from going completely under... but just grabbing on to something and honestly believing in it becomes harder and harder as each thing I grab on to shows up to be false. I ask for concrete proof of things, but such concrete proof often doesn't exist... I can't figure out whether I've just gotten to the point where I can't see honestly concrete proof as concrete or whether it really isn't concrete. The best way I can think of to describe it is that I'm completely and utterly lost, even in areas where most people aren't lost, right down to my perceptions of what's right and wrong and the world, all of that has fallen down and I'm left with nothing but trying to grasp on to what OTHER people's perceptions are and then I doubt those because they could be wrong and am once again back to nothing. I'm told to just be myself... and I know who myself is, don't get me wrong... but somehow I'm afraid that being myself is wrong somehow, that allowing my emotions to flow and my thoughts to flow is wrong somehow, I'm scared to death that I may not be feeling the right thing or thinking the right thing or doing the right thing and when I grasp on to a perception or list of ideals I'm worried that THEY'RE not the right thing either. And it's like since I can't figure out what the right way to think, feel, be, and the right perceptions are, I can't figure out whether or not anything else is right either. Because of all this it's like... I have a belief system, one that I WANT to believe is true, but I CAN'T believe is true because I'm so confused about everything. I WANT to be myself but I CAN'T be myself because I'm so afraid that it's not right to be myself... that my true self is somehow impure, evil, and needs to be restrained and molded to fit the truth, but I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TRUTH IS. If I try to relax and just be myself I end up feeling like a hypocrite because I'm being myself while I still don't know if it's right to and I'm still confused as to whether I should.
It's like... when I was a little kid and used to have these horrible nightmares... I was told that it was the demons playing with me and if I prayed to Jehovah he would make them stop... I prayed and prayed my heart out, and they didn't stop... so I assumed that it meant that I was bad and that was why he didn't answer my prayers. Ever since then I've had the fear, practically belief, that the real me is actually evil somehow and that maybe if I controlled myself to be the right way I would have some small chance of being redeemed... as I got older I still felt the real me tugging away, and I left the Witnesses because I wasn't entirely sure it was the right way because it wasn't working at making the real me go away and I was being a hypocrite by staying if it was the right way because I couldn't be the way I was supposed to be inside. And ever since then, even though I see with my own two eyes how hypocritical the Society is itself and would never think of going back to the JWs, I still am lost as to what the definition of "truth" is even and if being myself is evil and if it is what way I'm supposed to be. It's like I've still got it in my head that Satan is stalking about like a roaring lion and making the darkness seem like light so it's practically impossible to believe anything is the truth or that any way is the right way. And then again... it absolutely devestates me to think that God could be a person that would destroy people for walking the wrong path when they can't possibly tell what the right path is or if they're walking it... but even if he is... I'm scared to death of being rejected by him, just like a kid is frightened of being rejected by a parent he's done nothing but try to please out of love. And the idea of there not being a God frightens me beyond words... it's like... I look to him so much, practically like an actual father, because when I was younger I didn't have a father and when my mother left me when I had tried so hard to make her happy and be the perfect daughter God was all I had left to try to please and be loved by. Because I would so desperately love to believe that he would accept me as I was and love me like I loved him, despite my mistakes realized and unrealized. That he could accept me just because I loved him and I tried my best to do what's right... and I'm trying so hard to do what's right... but I can't do what's right when I don't know what's right and I don't know if just trying is enough for him.
Can anyone relate? I think advice from someone who can relate would help more than from someone who's never felt this way... I know this post is long and I just kind of spilled my guts out and I'm sorry for it all being so depressing.