Fisherman

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Posts by Fisherman

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  122

  1995 generation change

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.

  it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.

  with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.

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  Fisherman

  The generation meaning has to be a group of people and not a time period.

  I don’t see much of difference in the context of the return of Christ.
  
• 
  122

  1995 generation change

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.

  it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.

  with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Fisherman

  Waton, WT definition of the great crowd I quoted is exactly what Slim replied to TD. Slim doesn’t argue whether or not wt doctrines are valid but only that wrong wt beliefs about the great crowd don’t invalidate their definition of the GC thereby needing a change as TD was suggesting.

  Regarding your interpretation of the Bible, there are many interpretations. We have to wait and see how everything plays out.
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  122

  1995 generation change

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.

  it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.

  with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Fisherman

  This is how WT defines “the great crowd” in the publication Insight Book:

  “The sum of the evidence, therefore, points to the “great crowd” as representing all those persons who are not of the heavenly “bride” class, or 144,000 sealed ones, but who stand approved at the time of the “great tribulation” and are preserved alive on earth.” —Insight on the Scriptures
  
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  122

  1995 generation change

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.

  it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.

  with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Fisherman

  140 years. As far as i am concerned- these are all "last days" and to the point, it should NOT last that long.

  LOL, chewy chewy tootsie roll But even while analyst JW see there is a problem it doesn’t really affect their faith because they are convinced.
• 
  122

  1995 generation change

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.

  it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.

  with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.

  1. 
  2. 
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  Fisherman

  “1914 is completely, entirely, absolutely a "history book" date - no one alive can recount their own "1914 experiences".

  It is reasonable to conclude that the signs of the last days Jesus gave were for the benefit of individual Christians living in the last days but since most of those 1914 individuals that died of old age are of the anointed class, they got resurrected ( according to JW) right away so they are alive in heaven and see from there.But since the Sign of Jesus Return prophecy is about experiencing the last days on the planet earth it is reasonable to conclude it should all happen within a real individual’s lifetime—which is TD’s point about the Great Crowd.
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  122

  1995 generation change

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.

  it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.

  with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Fisherman

  Waton you seem to be missing the point. Based on the latest understanding of how some parts of prophecy might not have a greater fulfillment, this could apply to 1914 generation fulfillment.

  How long a generation is, is the only issue here because regardless of identity, Last Days shouldn’t reasonably last hundreds of years.
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  122

  1995 generation change

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.

  it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.

  with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Fisherman

  Waton

  “wt's current doctrine does not match Jesus' words.”

  That’s just interpretation of Jesus’ word. Maybe WT is right or maybe they will need to change the interpretation. For example, recently WT changed how they interpret prophecy, subtly explaining it in a WT article. According to the article if I recall, not all prophecy has a greater fulfillment, further (and this can subtly affect the interpretation of the Olivette) not all parts of prophecy may have a greater fulfillment. Therefore, using this method as a standard, generation might only apply in 70CE and not in 1914–or maybe it does.

  I agree that length of generation is typically 80 years( and wt always had believed this).

  But Jesus was very ironic in applying the Bible and what he said and taught was not always clear “cause and effect”, so it is possible that generation he used in the prophecy could have an ironic length or meaning. Take for example his words describing the generation “ by no MEANS pass away” also his words, “ my words will not pass away”. Why would he say that unless he wanted to guarantee the certainty of the prophecy. Given that generation part of the Olivette applies to 1914, at this time JW erasing words in a crossword puzzle written in pencil and plugging in another another interpretation of length of generation or meaning of generation. Safe to conclude that at this time JW don’t know what Jesus meant by generation.

  
  
• 
  122

  1995 generation change

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  now, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.

  it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.

  with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Fisherman

  TD, I think Slim nailed it. Back in 1935 WT believed that the “other sheep” (Christians with an earthly hope)would also make up the Great Crowd that would survive into the Millennium because it was believed that the end would come in their lifetime. Since the GC is made up of OS, they don’t stop being OS because they are GC. In fact, WT refers to them as GC of OS. Obviously, the millions that died of old age and other causes believing they would live into the Millennium were not part of the GC to begin with since being part of the GC described in Revelation means surviving into the new order. — So if you make it into the Millennium a person is of the GC if the JW dies beforehand, he is OS.
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  340

  Calling Cofty and others regarding evolution

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i have started down the path of trying to understand evolution, and to get the linear lies that the jws planted in my head out of it.

  i bought an audiobook called "evolution: what the fossils say and why it matters" by donald prothero.

  i heard it recommended on an atheist podcast that i listened to.

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  Fisherman

  Our life is really about learning and experiencing. That is what we do.

  Including the observation of mechanisms and systems that already exist in the universe, that evolutionists separate from having any agent.
  
  
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  13

  What do Jehovah's Witnesses think of modern day Israel?

  by bleak in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i mentioned this to the two ladies who came by yesterday.

  they indicated to me through bible readings (like 2 timothy 3 and another) that jw's are not what are called "christian zionists.

  " is this true because if it is not (that jw's actually do support israel), i want no part of the jehovah's witnesses.

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  Fisherman

  The Republic of Israel like every other country and nation on earth exists (except JW) based upon and depending on, military force, nuclear weapons, military bases, political alliances, and the like.