Posts by Fisherman

15

We are living in the 21st Century , When , Are We Going to Bury Religious Superstition ? Once and for all ?

by smiddy in

the christian bible / cannon is different , depending on what religion you profess ,around the world.. russian orthodox ,greek orthodox ,christian gnostics ,roman catholics , polish national catholics ,c.of e , etc,etc,.

the very many christian bible translations that exist today differ according to different interpretations of the translators.. the jewish translators of the hebrew scriptures add a whole new concept to the traditional interpretation by christian translators of the old testament... throw in the mix all of the fundamentalist religions that have sprung up these past couple of centuries including the j.w.`s , s.d.a.`s , mormons , t.v.

evangelists , etc, etc,.

Fisherman

rather than an inherent thing where we feel a sense of spirituality

I never said that.

96

Is the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses really an inferior form of Christianity?

by nicolaou in

seems to be quite a few posters recently pulling down the beliefs of jw's as not biblical or truly christian.

maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, i really don't care.. in some important ways though mainstream christians often behave better than jehovah's witnesses; most don't practice shunning or impose lethal medical prohibitions on their members.

many are far more tolerant of the lgbt community and a few even make the awkward attempt to square the fact of evolution with their faith.. please note that i'm saying some, not all.. so i suppose it's fair to say that differing forms of christianity can be better or worse for individuals, families and the wider community.

Fisherman

I think our conscience must play a part in how a person defines Christianity as I believe we are individually responsible before God.

Uncantnome Being held responsible for taking correct measurements with a ruler does not entitle a person to define the ruler ( how long should an inch be .)

96

Is the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses really an inferior form of Christianity?

by nicolaou in

seems to be quite a few posters recently pulling down the beliefs of jw's as not biblical or truly christian.

maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, i really don't care.. in some important ways though mainstream christians often behave better than jehovah's witnesses; most don't practice shunning or impose lethal medical prohibitions on their members.

many are far more tolerant of the lgbt community and a few even make the awkward attempt to square the fact of evolution with their faith.. please note that i'm saying some, not all.. so i suppose it's fair to say that differing forms of christianity can be better or worse for individuals, families and the wider community.

Fisherman

Who should define Christianity?

15

We are living in the 21st Century , When , Are We Going to Bury Religious Superstition ? Once and for all ?

by smiddy in

the christian bible / cannon is different , depending on what religion you profess ,around the world.. russian orthodox ,greek orthodox ,christian gnostics ,roman catholics , polish national catholics ,c.of e , etc,etc,.

the very many christian bible translations that exist today differ according to different interpretations of the translators.. the jewish translators of the hebrew scriptures add a whole new concept to the traditional interpretation by christian translators of the old testament... throw in the mix all of the fundamentalist religions that have sprung up these past couple of centuries including the j.w.`s , s.d.a.`s , mormons , t.v.

evangelists , etc, etc,.

Fisherman

Only Christianity deals in "faith." Other religions don't use the concept, at least not in the same manner.
...where faith replaces reason or logic show how many people are willing to jump to conclusions..

You don't see it. All religions are systems of beliefs and hope in the realization of some reward in exchange for conduct. In Christianity faith means being sure ( reasons ) of the reward despite challenges, risks and uncertainties and such assurance produces conduct required by God.. -Hebrews:11:1 And in Christianity, Abraham's logic and reasons for his faithful conduct is the quintessence of faith, because although his faith was based on observable facts ( he measured miracles ) he did not know for a fact that his conduct would be rewarded although he was totally convinced that it would be, so trust was required of him. Since faith is required of Christians in order to please God, it would seem that God must provide some form of solid evidence for Christians to base their faith upon, because without solid evidence, faith is not possible.

In other religions too, people also need to have some basis for being sure (faith) that their belief (conduct, rituals, etc) will produce the results they hope (reward.) In any religion, without faith, there is no logical reason for taxing your conduct and therefore in every religion just like in Christianity, faith is required in some way.

15

We are living in the 21st Century , When , Are We Going to Bury Religious Superstition ? Once and for all ?

by smiddy in

the christian bible / cannon is different , depending on what religion you profess ,around the world.. russian orthodox ,greek orthodox ,christian gnostics ,roman catholics , polish national catholics ,c.of e , etc,etc,.

the very many christian bible translations that exist today differ according to different interpretations of the translators.. the jewish translators of the hebrew scriptures add a whole new concept to the traditional interpretation by christian translators of the old testament... throw in the mix all of the fundamentalist religions that have sprung up these past couple of centuries including the j.w.`s , s.d.a.`s , mormons , t.v.

evangelists , etc, etc,.

Fisherman

A sense of spirituality is a human experience,

People just believe in a higher power. And those who claim that they do not believe will try anything in a helpless situation. The recipe or snake oil that people use in the form of method and ritual to attempt to reach out to that higher power is taxing, very expensive and time consuming. A lot of people are finding that they are short on time and cash in our modern age and so are cutting time consuming and expensive religion as part of their schedule and expense. This results in empty churches which will force the churches to close. Many people have realized that the potion they have been using or that their parents used does not work and don't buy it unless they absolutely have to, like for a wedding or a funeral. In some countries in the past, the church was part of people's daily lives, and who would ever think that it would be possible for Spain, a fanatically catholic society, to cut religion from their culture -but they have.

In Islam and Judaism, religion is integrated into the culture and it is just the way people live and who could ever think that it would be possible to disintegrate these respective religions from people's lives and culture and customs. And in the US, religion is integrated into the Constitution and it appears impossible to ax religion. Green backs are baked by the US army and a trust in god declaration ( just in case.) Hence, besides people not needing snake oil anymore, religion is woven into the fabric of society, government and economy and that is why it can only be surgically removed, it cannot disintegrate on its own even if it dries out .Yet, even without expensive potions being sold, as long as there are people, people will always believe in a higher power and attempt to reach out to it.

26

Living as Christians at the C.L.A.M this week

by Truthexplorer in

this weeks meeting under the section - living as 'christians', starts off with 'repentance makes a difference', which is a talk given by an elder taken from w06 11/15 27-28 par 7-9. in a nut shell it discusses those who have been disfellowshipped and then show repentance.

it then goes on to discuss reinstatement and how a certain amount of time must pass by before this can take place.

it makes the following point in the paragraph.. 'a disfellowshipped person is not automatically accepted back into the congregation after a certain amount of time has passed.

Fisherman

Oh, Really? Not according to.....

Is that what you think? The book you refer to was not meant for you to read, not because it is hiding something secret but because there is more to what you think it says. And the text has an explanation. Let me put it to you like this. An elder that commits a gross sin while he is serving is no longer ireprehensible and is disqualified. That is the rule. On the other hand, lets say Joe Pub also comitted a gross sin in the past many years ago and it came to light. Depending on the circumstances of his case, he may be shown mercy. But you do not have the authority to decide what is just in connection with WT judicial matters.

26

Living as Christians at the C.L.A.M this week

by Truthexplorer in

this weeks meeting under the section - living as 'christians', starts off with 'repentance makes a difference', which is a talk given by an elder taken from w06 11/15 27-28 par 7-9. in a nut shell it discusses those who have been disfellowshipped and then show repentance.

it then goes on to discuss reinstatement and how a certain amount of time must pass by before this can take place.

it makes the following point in the paragraph.. 'a disfellowshipped person is not automatically accepted back into the congregation after a certain amount of time has passed.

Fisherman

I get the whole idea about repentance and works befitting repentance, and obviously keeping the Congregation clean; but what I don't get is why an individual continues to be shunned having sincerely expressed their heartfelt desire to return to God?

Only God can read hearts and the therefore only He knows with certainty when a person is truly repentant. You are mistaken about the parable of the prodigal son. It is about God's forgiveness and how He rejoices and takes you back and prepared the fattened cow, and you know and experience his affection and approval. That is what repentance is all about.That related illustration It is not about how "God's organization" handles your case. Your conduct affected other people and you have to be handled and besides there consequences of sin that you have to face. Sometimes a committee errs and shows a sinner that is not repentant mercy. But since elders do not read hearts, they do not know whether you have repented or not however, as the WT sees it they have a duty to try to help you and according to the WT and what you subscribed to at your baptism. They have the authority to determine whether you have repented or not in connection with and as it relates to God's organization. It is not for you to decide that. I am not persuaded by claims of sincerity or female tears or show of emotions, sincere or not. There are several forms of repentance, sadly and godly. A person may be remorseful or sincerely sadly repentant as Esau was when faced with consequences or he may be godly repentant as David was when he realized the enormity of his sin. It is none of your business to adjudicate your own judicial case or any WT case. You are free to disagree with a JC findings and you can appeal a JC decision. Buit you do not have the authority to declare yourself repentant or some one else.

26

Living as Christians at the C.L.A.M this week

by Truthexplorer in

this weeks meeting under the section - living as 'christians', starts off with 'repentance makes a difference', which is a talk given by an elder taken from w06 11/15 27-28 par 7-9. in a nut shell it discusses those who have been disfellowshipped and then show repentance.

it then goes on to discuss reinstatement and how a certain amount of time must pass by before this can take place.

it makes the following point in the paragraph.. 'a disfellowshipped person is not automatically accepted back into the congregation after a certain amount of time has passed.

Fisherman

If Watchtower leadership commits a grievious error, they are not punished nor do they face any consequences."

If they commit a sin they face the same consequences as any John Pub would.

26

Living as Christians at the C.L.A.M this week

by Truthexplorer in

this weeks meeting under the section - living as 'christians', starts off with 'repentance makes a difference', which is a talk given by an elder taken from w06 11/15 27-28 par 7-9. in a nut shell it discusses those who have been disfellowshipped and then show repentance.

it then goes on to discuss reinstatement and how a certain amount of time must pass by before this can take place.

it makes the following point in the paragraph.. 'a disfellowshipped person is not automatically accepted back into the congregation after a certain amount of time has passed.

Fisherman

the current thinking is to DF and then reinstate

Although elders are given the power of discretion in JC decisions, they also must follow guidelines, in other words they must df under certain circumstances although it would appear that the person repented. For example, a person comes back to the KH after 16 years and confesses he joined the army, killed a couple of hundred people, married a couple of times but now is living with someone different, abuses drugs, tobacco, alcohol, and steals, and now he repented and wants to be accepted in the community after 16 years of being away. But he confesses, he did not get snagged. Have we got news for this fellow! Well, he has to stop what he was doing, come to meetings, wait 6 months or longer and then he can request to be reinstated.-But in the mean time....... - Sometimes there is a reason other than true repentance for a confession and that reason may not be determined at the hearing so confession does not secure that the sinner will not be DF.

Say a person is a first offender that has been practicing sexual immorality for years and now he confesses and wants to come clean. That person could be shown mercy and publicly R at the discretion of the committee. Or maybe he committed adultery or some other unholy act or even practiced it ,he could also only be publRe. but it depends. Sometimes a person confessed because he got snagged and is shown mercy anyway.

With repeat offenders, and someone that was PR before and has not stopped has shown that he is not repentant and therefore, this time...... But the rule is not to df and then reinstate. The rule is that is is better to make a mistake and show mercy given that it fall within the guidelines of that case. But if a person commits a gross sin and immediately confesses, that is proof right there that the person is repentant. And he should not be DF inspite of other disciplinary actions taken against him.

A JC is not about acquitting someone or finding alleged sinner guilty although guilt must be established before there is any basis for taking judicial action (But if you have come this far, you are guilty I bet) It is about the person's heart and whether he is repentant.

If you are a male JW, you are through. It does not matter whether you are DF or reproved especially if you are and elder or leader. You lost your respect and you will never recover. True you can be appointed elder in time and time heals all wounds but face it, you are disgraced and things will never be the same again .

If you are a female it is hard enough finding a mate if you are a sister in the org. Many sister never find mates. Now, who would want to get yoked with a problematic sister that was dF given better choices?

Bottom line is that it makes some difference whether you are DF or PR but not much. Both get disciplined and disgraced. When it does make a big difference is if your immediate JW family are unbalanced. Certain conduct cannot be tolerated from people living with you -JW or not so- and saying DF is harsh should not be used as a pretext so you can do whatever the heck you want in relation to your immediate relatives and expect to be treated the same. But everything considered JW family members need to be kind to DF family members if they want to help them.

NOTE: My remarks above are only about the human consequences of DF and does not address the "spiritual" aspect, etc.. of DF.

23

How will the Watchtower Cult end?

by WireRider in

some announcement of sorts?.

there are all kinds of conspiracy theories.

their head count and time cards are all faked by the gb, and "congregations".

Fisherman

How will the Watchtower Cult end?

That will never happen. JW claim that they know that there is a human element which is part of the WT org. inspite of it being "God's org." JW is a community of many millions all over the world.. They are JW not because of the WT org but because they conclude that they have a relationship with God and they also conclude that God drew them to the WT and uses the WT to unite them and direct them regardless of any WT blunders.And even seeming WT blunders were something that God allowed to happen. Think of the worst possible scenario that could befall the WT org. JW would not loose their faith over it. Nothing, it is impossible for anything to change what JW believe that they know, individuals yes but not the core of the JW people. They trust in God inspite of the WT being run by people. They stand firm and they are not budging. Of course if God does not come to the rescue then it will end with all religions as mankind enters the end of religion era. But never let it cross your mind that JW will end and survived by all the other religions. That will never happen.