Posts by Fisherman

108

Leaked Elder's Video: How to deal with a suicidal sister

by cappytan in

this video will be played at one of the clam meetings in march 2016.. the content is kind of old news because it is a recut version of a previous video produced for the elder's school.

however, it's still significant because it shows that the organization still has dissenting brothers in positions of leadership.. my thanks to the leaker.

feel free to claim credit here.

Fisherman

Mephis, your catholic is showing.

63

What were Satan and his demons "doing" up in heaven, before being "cast down" in 1914?

by Dunedain in

i was just thinking about how the wts has been spouting off for years that satan and his demons were cast down to the vicinity of the earth in 1914, but really, when you think about it, what was the difference before 1914 or after 1914?.

its not like satan and his demons did not have access to the earth.

satan and his demons always were messing with earth.

Fisherman

wave hands and say "it's a mystery"

Simon, if your thinking is like mine then you do not buy into any hypothesis' or theorems or arguments, or testimonies, or hearsay recorded in any books or religions proclaiming a whole bunch of stuff (nonetheless it can considerable or even integral but not on its own) in concluding that something is real, a fact. I need a talking horse or I don't buy it. I am more skeptical than most people and my mind needs a lot more evidence to be convinced that something is true than most people.. And everybody is different some people need more proof others less. But each person knows what he needs to be convinced. But some people are gullible and just swallow anything to be true, and others just cannot see at all in-spite of the facts because they are blind or because motive or something else colors their view. Thomas was convinced.

People have a problem distinguishing belief from knowledge, and evidence from a conclusion from the evidence as I wrote about in my previous post.

A lot of people were born into a religion like jews and moslems for example, and I have spoken to scientist and doctors and lawyers and judges that are so enveloped in the thinking of such religions that inspite of their analytical thinking skills, they believe nonensical unscientific teachings of their religions.

It is also possible to be convinced using non-falacious logical thinking that an event occurred, same way a jury or a judge can be persuaded or convinced (or beguiled) to conclude that something is true. But no one will put their head on the chopping block because they just do not know -If did not see it happen.

Some fanatics will put their heads on the chopping blocks thinking that what they believe is fact. They are mistaken.

And then there exists evidence that can be measured. When YOU measure evidence YOU know it is real. But even then, you can fool yourself into concluding too much from evidence.

The only way YOU know if some supernatural reality exists is if YOU can measure it physically somehow.

Assuming that it does, not being able to understand it or not being able to reconcile what seems to be impossible about it do not invalidate that it is real. It appears to me though that a supernatural reality should follow the same rules of logic as physical reality if God required faith. It has to be able to be explained somehow in human terms and that is what the Bible is all about. The Bible explains the interphase relationship between the physical and the supernatural realm. Like a programing language you need to learn the syntax of the Bible with the mind-frame that the language works . It is all consistent and everything ties in together and everything can be logically reconciled. But a person can also say that the language does not work and never bother to learn it.The aproach to understanding the Bible is to learn it as an entire poem. An ironic poem crossword puzzle It is not an easy thing to do and it takes a lot of workbut everything fits together nicely once you get to that point when you get the whole picture -not that you undersand the meaning of everything but your mind is staisfied that you read enough to be convinced.

Bottom line is justice then relief. People need relief not proof but proof is the only solid basis (faith) to believe in relief. JWs do not need more proof.They would not be surprised to see angles come and go or any supernatural evidence whatsoever. It is comforting and faith strengthening but to JW it is not about evidence.

63

What were Satan and his demons "doing" up in heaven, before being "cast down" in 1914?

by Dunedain in

i was just thinking about how the wts has been spouting off for years that satan and his demons were cast down to the vicinity of the earth in 1914, but really, when you think about it, what was the difference before 1914 or after 1914?.

its not like satan and his demons did not have access to the earth.

satan and his demons always were messing with earth.

Fisherman

"This event loses more ad more credibility as each year passes, I wonder how much longer it can be believed?"

For those that never saw the event, the event never had any significance to begin with. For those that believe the event occurred based on a teaching without any proof of the event can stop believing for any reason at any time For those convinced that the event did occur in 1914 do not need any more evidence to be convinced, or to make the event any more of a fact. They know. The problem for these later ones is what they concluded from the evidence that they saw and see. They concluded that they would be in a paradise earth in a couple of years and that ain't happening. The Jews did not need to see any more manna coming down from heaven or Moses hitting any more rocks to give them water, they saw that all of the time. They wanted relief.The people that experienced the evidence from Jesus signs did not need to see any more to believe, they were convinced but they still needed to know " when will these things be" and they still got their heads chopped off and killed and died like everybody else (yet even as they were dying, they knew what they knew to be a fact.) The churches that Jesus spoke to recorded in the book of Revelation also had all the evidence to know that the events were facts and they were still getting into trouble -because it is not about evidence Once again, it is not about credibility, it is about relief, the realization of the reward. That is why people loose faith.

63

What were Satan and his demons "doing" up in heaven, before being "cast down" in 1914?

by Dunedain in

i was just thinking about how the wts has been spouting off for years that satan and his demons were cast down to the vicinity of the earth in 1914, but really, when you think about it, what was the difference before 1914 or after 1914?.

its not like satan and his demons did not have access to the earth.

satan and his demons always were messing with earth.

Fisherman

An eternal superbeing of infinite power needing to be crucified by the Romans before he can do anything? Not so much.

God could have killed Satan a long time ago, but he did not, so he has his good reasons why he does things his way but it is not because he is not Almighty.

63

What were Satan and his demons "doing" up in heaven, before being "cast down" in 1914?

by Dunedain in

i was just thinking about how the wts has been spouting off for years that satan and his demons were cast down to the vicinity of the earth in 1914, but really, when you think about it, what was the difference before 1914 or after 1914?.

its not like satan and his demons did not have access to the earth.

satan and his demons always were messing with earth.

Fisherman

Jesus answered him: “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been granted to you from above."

Jesus did not have any power to use his authority when he was held captive in death for 3 days needing a resurrection.

God entrusted Jesus with all authority as Jesus said at that time, but Jesus did not have the power to exercise it all until after he died loyal and resurrected and in kingdom power. Fact is they killed him -authority and all. As a human creature Jesus certainly did not have the power at that time

Authority involves the duties that are delegated to an individual while power is the possession of control that allows an individual to influence the actions of others.

But even in-spite of having both power and authority, there also exists other factors why a person does not use it. God has both and he did not immediately burn down the house.

You need to think a little bit instead of making wild guesses about everything.

63

What were Satan and his demons "doing" up in heaven, before being "cast down" in 1914?

by Dunedain in

i was just thinking about how the wts has been spouting off for years that satan and his demons were cast down to the vicinity of the earth in 1914, but really, when you think about it, what was the difference before 1914 or after 1914?.

its not like satan and his demons did not have access to the earth.

satan and his demons always were messing with earth.

Fisherman

good point. It is not like the demons dominated the heavens before 1914

Try living in the same house with vermin.

63

What were Satan and his demons "doing" up in heaven, before being "cast down" in 1914?

by Dunedain in

i was just thinking about how the wts has been spouting off for years that satan and his demons were cast down to the vicinity of the earth in 1914, but really, when you think about it, what was the difference before 1914 or after 1914?.

its not like satan and his demons did not have access to the earth.

satan and his demons always were messing with earth.

Fisherman

Whether or not what the Bible records is true or whether or not 1914 is the date when war broke out in the heavens does not change that the Bible says so.

without Gods approval???

There is a difference between allowing something to happen and approving of something to happen because you do not stop it. You can think of some examples on your own (if you can think.) But here is one example: You discover that your house has become infected with cockroaches. You can immediately set fire to your house or you can call an exterminator and wait until he comes over and wages war with those little devils -either way the roaches' activities ain't your will.

Whether or not something seems crazy to you, or you whether or not you understand it from your your point of view or from the facts that you have at hand does not change if from being true if it happens to be the case. You just do not know.

What did Jesus mean in the Lord's prayer? He certainly did not mean that he approved of any of Satan's activities on earth or in heaven.

Surely there could have been a better way.

Maybe you should be God and do things your way or in a way that suits YOU. There are a lot of factors at play that make up the nature of reality. Maybe if you were God, you would not have created roaches to begin with? Sounds smart to you? But you are not God, and God in his Al-mightiness and All Knowingness surely has his reasons for doing things the way he pleases.

63

What were Satan and his demons "doing" up in heaven, before being "cast down" in 1914?

by Dunedain in

i was just thinking about how the wts has been spouting off for years that satan and his demons were cast down to the vicinity of the earth in 1914, but really, when you think about it, what was the difference before 1914 or after 1914?.

its not like satan and his demons did not have access to the earth.

satan and his demons always were messing with earth.

Fisherman

The Lord's prayer, spoken in the first century by Jesus, is an acknowledgement that God's will had already been completed in heaven.

That is your interpretation and conclusion. I disagree that God's will was being done in heaven in an absolute sense before Satan is kicked out and that event had not occured when Jesus uttered those words. Compare Rev 1:1 (soon) with Rev 12:7,8. It was not God's will (for one thing) for Satan to reside in heaven, (his activities there, converting angels to demons, etc.and as my previous post explains) and that is why God had him kicked out. In a relative sense, God's will was being done on earth when Jesus prayed to God for the cup to pass him but it did not as it was also being done in heaven when God manipulated events so that Jesus could come to earth and save mankind. God's will is being done in heaven in an absolute sense when God becomes king and that happens after Jesus died loyal, is resurrected, exalted, becomes the Messianic king in heaven and that had not happened when Jesus said the Lords prayer. The basis of ousting Satan if you take the time to read the book of Revelation is the blood of the lamb and there was no basis when Jesus said the Lords prayer because the Lamb had not died faithful to God yet. READ REv 12:10

Anyway, that is what it seems to me. Just my opinion.

63

What were Satan and his demons "doing" up in heaven, before being "cast down" in 1914?

by Dunedain in

i was just thinking about how the wts has been spouting off for years that satan and his demons were cast down to the vicinity of the earth in 1914, but really, when you think about it, what was the difference before 1914 or after 1914?.

its not like satan and his demons did not have access to the earth.

satan and his demons always were messing with earth.

Fisherman

Great post! Very thought provoking!

I think that you mean: “What is Satan and demons doing in heaven before he is kicked out of there.”(It does not make any difference to your question when he is kicked out, 1914 or any other date.)

Here is my opinion:

Satan and his demon are resisting God’s will and his Holy Spirit in heaven. The war that broke out in heaven shows that Satan is in opposition to God in heaven.

Seems that Satan (I also mean his demons also) has God given power and authority that God entrusted to him when he was a Holy angel and he continued to exercise it, in opposition to God until the war takes place, the time when God kicks him out. In the Bible, Satan is referred to as the god of this world and the ruler of this world in connection with the earth. This title (god) describes Satan’s great power and authority and ruler ship and will over the earth and humanity, but such great power (god) can only be held from heaven. After the war in heaven when he is cast down to earth (whatever that means literally since he continues to exist in a spirit realm - but not in heaven,) heaven is secure and God can operate from there without opposition and Satanic presence (what a relief for all the angels-and for God.)

So, what was Satan doing in heaven? Satan had been entrusted with power and authority when he was a holy angel, (same as when a Sovereign entrusts some entity with delegated power, nuclear or otherwise, and then the empowered trustee turns on the Sovereign to achieve his own means or he tries to take over in opposition to the Sovereign; his time will come when he will be stopped, no doubt about that, but in the meantime he causes a lot of harm and damage while he is in power.) he continued to use that power and authority in opposition to God until the time came when he was dealt with, that time is the war with Michael.

4

It is the thought that counts

by Fisherman in

spain was one of those countries that was more catholic than the pope.

and back in medieval times people had no choice but to go to mass and confession and be good catholics –or else.

anyway, back in them days, in spain, when someone went to confess their sins to a priest, it was face to face.

Fisherman

kaik, your avitar does not dignify your intelligence. My humble opinion.