Posts by Fisherman

36

Seven Reasons Why Jehovah's Witnesses Are Leaving Their Religion.

by Hairyhegoat in

these are good comments to consider enjoy!.

jehovah's witnesses who leave their religion, do so for many different reasons.

here are seven.. watchtower prophecies and dates for armageddon have failed repeatedly.

Fisherman

1 They want to get involved in forbidden conduct.

2 They get angry, or stumbled, or fed up with how they are being dealt with unfairly.

3 They get tired and just want to stay home.

And that’s about it.

36

Did anyone really enjoy assemblies?

by SydBarrett in

jw
friends

the twickenham post made me think of this.

i have a few jw family members on facebook and being summertime, their pics of the convention have shown up in my fb feed.

along with their comments about "i wished it would never end" or "what a glorious weekend".

From an empiricist point of view, remarkable coincidences time and time again at the conventions made going enjoyable and the book releases, some dramas, talks from old gb, listening for hints about the GT, looking at attractive opposite sex and searching for a mate, the experience of JW fellowship and closeness to God. Inspite of hours and hours of sitting down and listening and waiting for the program to be over, the heat, the unbearable humidity with rain and sweat and discomfort. An assignment made the time go faster. Im talking about the large conventions. It was an experience and you had friends and socialized and new members got baptized, they served food.

I honesty have to say that this last Patience convention was well done—take what you want out of it but it was easy to listen to and they kept your attention.

You also have to look at conventions as worship. JW worship involves listening to discourses aka talks and not rituals jumping up and down mumbo jumbo prayers.

39

Only baptised JWs will make it?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

i think it was a john cedars video or someone else’s where the point was brought up that only baptised jws will be saved?

then one talk about kids of baptised jws hope they will make it but even them don’t know.

most jws probably think that some good people who are not baptised may make it through, but this is not official teaching?.

Fisherman

and still living at home

If DF would have to kick him out or resign as elder. If never baptized, it depends. But if living a debauched life would have to kick him out.

12

Should a person die for their religious BELIEFS?

by Fisherman in

in ancient israel many of the prophets were killed as a result of their religious assignments —from god.

even soldiers were sent out to fight against idolatrous “uncircumcised” and logically some died for example jonathan, the son of king saul.

these soldiers were said to be fighting the wars of jehovah and there was no miraculous salvation for everybody all of the time.

Fisherman

veracity of Yahweh.

Not Yahweh but Yehova —See commentaries by the scholar, Nehemiah Gordon.

Jesus used poetic language (Paratherisis) to describe the obvious striking proof that people rejected because they didn’t like it. Legally speaking, such rejection did not invalidate the evidence and what God modestly required people to conclude from the evidence.

real Scottish policeman.

The Museum tablet has a drawing of king Jehu with the king of Assyria along with other historical people of the time.

12

Should a person die for their religious BELIEFS?

by Fisherman in

in ancient israel many of the prophets were killed as a result of their religious assignments —from god.

even soldiers were sent out to fight against idolatrous “uncircumcised” and logically some died for example jonathan, the son of king saul.

these soldiers were said to be fighting the wars of jehovah and there was no miraculous salvation for everybody all of the time.

Fisherman

Hi vid,

“I might be wrong.”

That was my point. In the Bible examples, they knew (given their historicity.)

Cofty,

Bronze Age and Iron Age myths.

The only king of Israel that there is archeological evidence about is king Jehu. The British Museum has an ancient stone table about him with the king of Assyria at the time. So, that is not a myth, for example. Given the authenticity of the Bible, those historical figures were required to die in their service to God: “He who loves his soul, loses it.” Abraham and Issac’s obedience, their belief, was based on empirical evidence from God.They knew for a fact God existed. They knew for a fact that their obedience till death was commanded to them by God. They knew that it was required by God but as it turned out nobody died. But how would a person know today when God requires them to die? They would have to know God exists and they would have to know that the perilous conduct is a command from God in order to be able to chose to “obey God as ruler”.

12

Should a person die for their religious BELIEFS?

by Fisherman in

in ancient israel many of the prophets were killed as a result of their religious assignments —from god.

even soldiers were sent out to fight against idolatrous “uncircumcised” and logically some died for example jonathan, the son of king saul.

these soldiers were said to be fighting the wars of jehovah and there was no miraculous salvation for everybody all of the time.

Fisherman

In ancient Israel many of the prophets were killed as a result of their religious assignments —from God. Even soldiers were sent out to fight against idolatrous “uncircumcised” and logically some died for example Jonathan, the son of king Saul. These soldiers were said to be fighting the wars of Jehovah and there was no miraculous salvation for everybody all of the time.

Jesus also died as a result of his mission and his ministry and so did the Apostles. They could have avoided their lives being cut short. And later on Christian converts were persecuted and put to death. In fact Jesus warned that Christians should expect persecution. So, we have all these Bible examples of religious people that died for their religious beliefs. Should these religious people have chosen to die for their religious beliefs?

There is a distinction, however, between: A clear command from God or from his proxy JC ( and delegates:)“We must obey God as ruler rather than men.” “Fear not those that kill the body but cannot destroy the soul.” and an interpretation, belief or view of what a scripture means or how it applies —subject to error.

So when a person reads the Bible today, how would he know for sure what a Bible verse means or applies that GOD requires him to die for a religious belief ?

We need to distinguish though a religious belief that is a command from God that must be obeyed even when threatened with death ( given that such commands exist) and the right to practice and identify with a religion whatever your beliefs are for example in Russia the government comes along and goes after the JW for their religious practices and JW as a people are not going to stop practicing their religion or identifying as JW. And this is different because an individual would not want renounce his religious belief and practices and identity and they look to God for their existence and they are going to do what they feel is right whether or not they are being forced to stop,

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Fisherman

People worry about commas and ignore the greater understanding of what dead is.

Irrelevant. Jesus did not ascend into heaven until much later after his resurrection( John 20:17) so it is axiomatic that the evil doer did not go to heaven or paradise that day.

11

The G.B. are now going to be EQUAL with Christ in heaven!!!!

by BoogerMan in

they are not just going to be "joint kings and priests," oh no, because the latest washtowel is sneakily implying that they will be "joint kings and high priests.

october 2023 study watchtower p. 28, par.

13 - "after jesus was resurrected, he entered the most holy of the spiritual temple, where all the anointed eventually join him.".

Fisherman

Viq

Thanks for v21.

Jesus gives back the kingdom to God; nothing is said about his co-rulers who axiomatically follow suit although they throw their crowns of everlasting life at God’s feet.

I never thought in terms of partnership although the kings of Israel are described as Jesus’s companions ( nwt changed translation from partners to companions) I don’t think Jesus is a partner-in the sense of the word -with God on rulership because God is ruler and gives all authority to Jesus. That relationship would be similar to a proxy or power of attorney and not a partner. Also, a partner has a will of its own whereas Jesus is doing God’s will in ruling as the Messianic king so that is not a partnership. The Messianic kingdom by the way is everlasting, having no end (poetically). It is only because Jesus voluntarily , sua sponte gives back the kingdom to God.

Thinking in terms of a husband and wife relationship in a perfect marriage both equally care for their home and children with the same authority. They are co-rulers in their role as parents and in caring for their home. Partners sort of speak. But Thayer equivocates in describing the Messianic kingdom as a partnership. V21 is not describing a partnership. Jesus role as king of God’s kingdom is not partnership with God and neither is the Messianic kingdom rule. GOD rules through the Messianic kingdom that does God’s will.

11

The G.B. are now going to be EQUAL with Christ in heaven!!!!

by BoogerMan in

they are not just going to be "joint kings and priests," oh no, because the latest washtowel is sneakily implying that they will be "joint kings and high priests.

october 2023 study watchtower p. 28, par.

13 - "after jesus was resurrected, he entered the most holy of the spiritual temple, where all the anointed eventually join him.".

Fisherman

We know that the Bible says that Jesus’ Apostles will be with him in heaven as the bride of Christ. Let’s say that symbolically that relationship is like that of Adam and Eve when God brought Eve to Adam. Although she was a complement of Adam, it is debatable that Eve was Adam’s equal. But in the joint heirs aspect of the Seed Prophecy, it appears that Jesus shares the Messianic Kingdom rule jointly with the “Heirs of the Promise.” That prophecy applies to some entity. JW “anointed” profess to be that entity.

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

Fisherman

I skimmed through all the posts but didn’t read them in detail. The Bible says that Jesus was dead for 3 days so obviously the NWT comma is in the right place because Jesus did not go to paradise that day.