Posts by trumangirl

22

Hello, I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I'm here to convert you....

by undercover in

the thread about the 6 million bible studies reminded me of some things that always bothered me about going door to door.

1. as mentioned in the other thread, there were times that cos and elders would tell us to not identify ourlselves as jws.

tell them we are "students of the bible" or "concerned neighbors", etc.

trumangirl

What about the instruction to not accept any written material the householder offered us? My husband always thought that was silly when he was a JW.

I remember once when I was a young pioneer, a christian woman accepted our literature, invited me and the other pioneer I was with in for a chat and a drink, and after discussing 1914 with us, she asked us to read a booklet she had that would show us an alternative viewpoint. My pioneer friend told her "we don't accept literature". "Why not?" asked the woman, genuinely. "Because we know we have the truth and our ministry's purpose is to bring the good news to others". "Well that's a conundrum isn't it?" said the woman.

I wish I'd taken the booklet!

20

Fish & Chips He Said Crisply..

by Englishman in

jw
friends

americans call 'em chips.

we call them crisps.. .

now..these are fish and chips.

trumangirl

And in New Zealand, crisps are called 'chippies'. Fries are 'chips'. Or 'hot chips' if you want to be really clear. (Unless you work at McDonalds, in which case you call them fries).

12

Psyco baby killer welcome at Sunday meetings!

by Ranch in

i am providing the link to this story if you are interested in reading the whole thing.. http://www.dailylocal.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=12257203&drd=1671&pag=461&dep.

hear are some quotes,greist is the east coventry man who stabbed his pregnant wife to death and butchered his unborn child in may 1978. two years later at trial, former judge thomas a. pitt jr. declared him not guilty by reason of insanity.. .

o?brien had served as an expert witness for the commonwealth.

trumangirl

I just want to remind everyone that if someone was psychotic that is NOT THE SAME as being psychopathic or paedophiliac.

People who have suffered from psychosis have suffered a mental illness and it is not their fault if they commit bad things while psychotic.

Having said this I appreciate that people can be fearful of mental illness, but the fact is that when such illness is being treated, the chances of being attacked by a mentally ill person is less than the chance of being attached by a normal healthy person.

63

Do you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God?

by desib77 in

do you believe the bible is the inspired word of god?

have you somehow attempted to prove this to yourself or have you just accepted it?

trumangirl

I don't know what I believe. - Me too Minimus.

One thing I know is that the Bible brings out the best or the worst in people. The bible has been used for political and selfish ends by intolerant people, but it has also been a source of inspiration to some of the best political developments and justice and altruism in mankind down through time (particularly in the western civilisations I'm referring to, like human rights).

And there's something about Jesus' and Daniel and Revelations' prophecies that are still so intriguing. Can't see that there isn't something in it, just because the WTS's interprations have been wrong doesn't mean Jesus' prophecies won't come true (somehow).

68

Is there proof of Evolution out there? help needed

by trumangirl in

i've faded, but i still would like to have faith in a creator/god.

but i am really not sure if my belief in god is the result of being brought up a jw and being stuck with a particular world-view.

the best thing i can do is challenge myself by reading some material that explains proof of the evolution, but i have not seen anything that does this yet, i've only seen explanations of the theory, not the proof.

trumangirl

Yes but what about the refutation that some features of living things (I'm not sure what the exact examples are) have to have developed as a system, all at once, in order to work at all. It's the principle of necessary complexity or something like that. Which is quite different from Yahtzee, which is an incremental game. Besides, someone intelligent has to play Yahtzee! I'm not a big player myself but it's not purely a game of luck is it? there's some strategising involved?

12

Aug 1 WT says Rutherford "Strong yet Humble"

by trumangirl in

i just had to post this quote from a box on the first study article - "jehovah reveals his glory to humble ones".

august 1st 2004.. strong yet humble.

at the 1919 cedar point, ohio, usa, convention of the bible students (known today as jehovah's witnesses), 50-year-old j f rutherford, who was then overseeing the work, gladly volunteered as a bellhop, carying luggage and escorting conventioners to their rooms.

trumangirl

I just had to post this quote from a box on the first study article - "Jehovah Reveals his Glory to humble ones". August 1st 2004.

Strong yet Humble

At the 1919 Cedar Point, Ohio, USA, convention of the Bible Students (known today as Jehovah's Witnesses), 50-year-old J F Rutherford, who was then overseeing the work, gladly volunteered as a bellhop, carying luggage and escorting conventioners to their rooms. On the last day of the convention, he electrified the audience of 7,000 with the words: "You are an ambassador of the King of kings and Lord of lords, announcing to the people . . . the glorious kingdom of our Lord." While Brother Rutherford was a man of strong convictions, known for speaking forcefully and without compromise for what he believed to be the truth, he was also genuinely humble before God, often reflecting that in his prayers at morning worship in Bethel.

Is it my imagination or are they euphemistically admmitting that Rutherford was bull-headed and arrogant about "what he believed to be the truth"?

But he was happy to be seen being a bellhop and to be heard giving a humble prayer, so that means he was truly humble!

I look forward to comments!

68

Is there proof of Evolution out there? help needed

by trumangirl in

i've faded, but i still would like to have faith in a creator/god.

but i am really not sure if my belief in god is the result of being brought up a jw and being stuck with a particular world-view.

the best thing i can do is challenge myself by reading some material that explains proof of the evolution, but i have not seen anything that does this yet, i've only seen explanations of the theory, not the proof.

trumangirl

About the Flood, what is the answer to the question I was asked once, that how could animals that were wiped out during the Flood have subsequently appeared on islands (like NZ)? Gondwanaland would have existed a long time before the Flood happened. I don't know what the WTS answer is to this question, I guess they say that the animals got there on rafts.

68

Is there proof of Evolution out there? help needed

by trumangirl in

i've faded, but i still would like to have faith in a creator/god.

but i am really not sure if my belief in god is the result of being brought up a jw and being stuck with a particular world-view.

the best thing i can do is challenge myself by reading some material that explains proof of the evolution, but i have not seen anything that does this yet, i've only seen explanations of the theory, not the proof.

trumangirl

Hi everyone! I hadn't checked JW-forum for a week or so because university semester's started up again so I can't afford any brain cells to consider this subject further right now - and I certainly need all my brain cells for this subject! I have made a note of some of the recommended literature and will follow up when my studies are over this year.

I've never heard of Hawking radiation or abiogenesis, but I guess I wouldn't have, having been immersed in JW-dom all my life.

I will say tho that the anthropic principle still doesn't make sense to me. Sure, highly improbable things happen everyday, but the difference with evolution is that the theory demands that we believe that a whole series of related and appearingly purposeful coincidences and highly improbable events happened, one after the other. And what of the mathematics behind quantum physics? Or is mathematics just a subjective concept that humans have dreamed up, a concept that doesn't exist outside our own minds? .. Now I can hear the evolutionists among you breathing a sigh of derision, please bear with me till I can understand!

Zen nudist - you really got me thinking about the nature of intelligence. I always have believed that intelligence must come packaged with a mind and a personality. The more intelligent a being, the more individuality they display in their actions and creativity. Ie, humans have more personality than cats, but cats have their own character too, and even fruit flies have been found to have variant behaviour amongst individuals, but not as much as more intelligent life forms.. But do plants have personalities? they don't have brains. Are they purely mechanical? .... This is getting really metaphysical.

68

Is there proof of Evolution out there? help needed

by trumangirl in

i've faded, but i still would like to have faith in a creator/god.

but i am really not sure if my belief in god is the result of being brought up a jw and being stuck with a particular world-view.

the best thing i can do is challenge myself by reading some material that explains proof of the evolution, but i have not seen anything that does this yet, i've only seen explanations of the theory, not the proof.

trumangirl

Go for it abadon, I'm all ears! I want to know -

- what books show evidence (including photos) of these transitoinal forms.

- what about the improbability of the first living cell developing, surviving and reproducing, and the complex systems for life evolving by chance mutations? I've heard of the anthropic principle, but it seems to lead to the conclusion that the laws of probability are not laws at all, they just our human perception, and I can't accept that. And what about entropy? (order turns to disorder and decay with time and neglect).

You make a good point about schools, but really, would it be so bad if schools taught the outdated beliefs in the sense of drawing a comparison? They could mention the basic belief in a Creator, and the pantheistic idea, and if students want to study religions in university they can do so later on. Isn't evolution taught at a basic level in high school and then more detailed at tertiary level? Anyway this point doesn't matter much to me.

68

Is there proof of Evolution out there? help needed

by trumangirl in

i've faded, but i still would like to have faith in a creator/god.

but i am really not sure if my belief in god is the result of being brought up a jw and being stuck with a particular world-view.

the best thing i can do is challenge myself by reading some material that explains proof of the evolution, but i have not seen anything that does this yet, i've only seen explanations of the theory, not the proof.

trumangirl

The posts have some great leads for me to investigate. Here is my response to some -

Abaddon - THanks for all the links. You know, schools don't need to teach all the mythical accounts, just need to mention that there are some serious objections to evo.

Sirona - If evolution is the 'most likely' theory about the origin of life, why bother with God?

Hooberus - I am familiar with Occams razor, but on this subject I don't think it applies, because organic life is so complex humans don't even fully understand how it works, so how could the origin of life be uncomplicated?

Max Divergent - I would like to see that line by line critique of Creation book.

Seattleniceguy - thanks for the compliment! I will definitely get that book by M Denton.

Zen nudist - not sure what to say about your post! My mind can't think about pantheism right now.

ThiChi - I agree on your point re Occams razor - maybe evolution is less complicated because it relieves us of any requirement to think about spiritual things.

JWBot - You're right, but of course it's more satisfying to think that there HAS to be a God, to have faith in a necessity, not just a wishful-thinking, "I would like there to be a God, therefore I believe".

Ohio cowboy - LOL proof of Devolution!

Logansrun - yes exactly, and who wants to believe in a superfluous God? You always have a short but punchy post!

PHil - But doesn't Evolution spawn new "belief systems"? - sorry, you're just talking semantics.

Zen nudist - We don't know anything about God's form (if God exists that is), so 'spirit' must be in another dimension surely? and we can't theorise about that. It would be like an ant trying to theorise about humans. All we can find out about is in the physical universe, and if the evidence shows that organic life couldn't have arisen by chance, then surely the logical conclusion is that 'something' or 'someone' intelligent had a hand?

Xander - It's great that an atomic particle came about by chance - now show how it could have come together with other bits and pieces to make a living cell.

Kenneson - "Big banger" I like that!

Oroborus21 - You really like that JW submission policy for women don't you? Your post started out well until you started on about the male/female God debate. Women initiate reproduction just the same as men, you know, PLUS, we nurture life for 9 months then give birth to it. Your anti-feminist argument doesn't stand up.