oompa: I thought you had the hots for the one in the turbin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZybFl_pfMk
Great pics of the 4 ladies (+ Mary )
blur your face a bit if you have to........cmon girls, you know you want to show off a bit...........oompa.
oompa: I thought you had the hots for the one in the turbin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZybFl_pfMk
Great pics of the 4 ladies (+ Mary )
saturday july 18 six screens conference call attracted many listeners as barbara and joe anderson along with roberto, a former prominent elder and circuit assembly overseer in western europe spoke up with courage and conviction to the european government officials on the dangers of the watchtower society, jehovah's witnesses.
the call can be listened to by going to the following link, when on this page scroll down to 7-18-09. click this.
http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/sixscreens-conferencecall.html.
The sooner these calls are made available as downloadable MP3s, the sooner I'll start sampling them.
The archive is not user-friendly.
I also hope that these are soon made downloadable as MP3s.
For now, I open the streaming feed in Windows Media Player within Internet Explorer, save it as a wav file, and use 'Free Audio Converter' to convert the wav file to a smaller MP3 that I can listen to through my portable MP3 player. This way, I can continue doing other things while listening, as I'm not tied to the computer for up to 7 hours.
As interesting and informative as many of these calls are, and I do appreciate Rick & Inez' efforts and comitment, 7 hours is too long. Maybe these calls should have a set time limit and only 1 main guest. I know I can stop listening at any time, but once started, I'd hate to miss anything.
my mom emailed me and asked if they could come to town and go to our district convention with us.
i politley said no thank you we wont be attending.
we havent been to meeting in a long long time.
Witnesses keep looking for any 'sign', no matter how small, that Harmageddon is only 'minutes' away. The keep putting faith in any anyone with ties to the society, that somehow, these people have some insider knowledge about the date of Armageddon.
My Inlaws had a visitor to their congregation, probably a year ago. I don't recall who he was but they said that 'he was very well versed in the bible and he was able to fiqure-out when the end would be. He said that it wouldn't be too much longer'. I've heard similar statements from others.
Many Witnesses don't seem to hold to long established teachings of the organization they hold so dear, but look for loopholes when it comes to the salvation of their own loved ones. For example, it has been a long established understanding that unless you are regular in meeting attendance, are baptised and a regular preacher of the good news, you basically have little hope of making it through armegeddon.
A 'friend' from within our cong now holds that due to the pressures of 'this system of things', all that is necessary to be recognized as a JW is attendance at the Memorial once per year. It turns out, his eldest daughter has moved away and 'living in sin' with some guy. Although she wants nothing to do with the 'truth', my 'friend' instructs her to atleast attend the Memorial every year. He also told her that if he or her mom calls her and tells her to go somewhere or do something, to not question it but do it immediately as this will save her at armegeddon. He is referring to passing on the 'flee' instructions that he anticipates receiving from the Society.
The Society seems to have active witnesses wound-up more than ever. Although we haven't been to meetings for close to 10 years, we keep getting told to get back to the hall as the 'ark doors are about to close, and it may be too late if we wait any longer'.
Truely, most Witnesses miss the point of Christianity and the reason to serve God. Just as with the Pharasees that are discussed in the bible, there is much focus on legalism, loopholes, what is said between the lines and ultimately, unquestioning allegiance to an man-made organization. There has been far too much emphasis placed on saving their necks, not on love of God and mankind.
well if i read it correctly it seems that at the spanish extj.com forum.
there's a letter (in spanish of course) saying there's a change in the.
way reimbursement of expenses are going to be made for co's, and.
cattails said:
the CO will send his amount for expenses to the Branch and then the Branch will bill the congregations.
Sounds to me like an accounting expense to the branch. Maybe this expense will be marked-up and will provide some 'non-profit' revenue to the branch.
I also wonder if the Society will establish a fixed cost per Publisher for CO overhead, much like the cost per publisher to use an assembly hall.
hey everyone, i don't think the maker of the video is on the board so i figured i'd post this video here.
this one absolutely floored me, it was put together so concisely; it's just incredibly difficult to deny the theocratic warfare method when viewing this video... without further ado, the video:.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6yssa2dj_u.
Many Witnesses are very much into technicalities. If the question asked doesn't conform to the language commonly used by the Society or JW's, then Witnesses often feel justified (I have witnessed various examples over the years) in 'playing dumb', evading the question or outright providing contrasting information since this is not technically lying. In this example, because the courtroom would be considered a hostile environment to this witness and a witness only needs to answer directly asked questions, he wouldn't be compelled to offer clarifying information.
I'm not familiar with the 'Custody' document discussed in the first video, but I suspect that it might be a custody brochure or other such name?? Because the lawyer asking the questions might not be familiar with WT speak, jargon or terminology, then he didn't ask the correct technical question so the Elder may have felt justified in not answering, denying knowledge of the document and otherwise not offering additional information. If the lawyer had asked about a 'Custody brochure' instead of a custody packet or book, the witness might have had to acknowledged the existence of this 'brochure' if in fact, that is how it is referred to by the Society.
Another example of technicalities in wording is the typical Witness response that JW's do not "shun" when questioned by non-JW's about shunning. Because JW's refer to the practice as "Disfellowshipping", the word shunning is foreign to them and feel truthful in their denial that they 'shun'.
The word 'Secret' in this case has somewhat of a double meaning. Although I might know that the book exists, the existence of the book is not a secret but because I'm not permitted to view the contents of the book as the Elders consider it to be 'confidential' information, the contents contained therein is a secret to me.
In a religion that promotes itself as treating all members on an equal basis as 'brothers', should not all brothers have equal information available to them? This book, as Wasanelder Once pointed out, is an instruction manual. I can understand not providing copies to all members of the congregation, but I DO believe that a copy should be included in every K-H library as reference material, freely accessible to any congregation member wishing to review it.
As already stated, the fact that there are only certain people allowed access to this book, is clearly a means of information control. Where is the Biblical example that justifies this practice? What procedural information needs to be withheld from r&f members of GOD'S supposed true organization especially when God already provided an instruction manual freely available to all who want to read and follow it- the Bible?
Wasanelder Once said:
Does the fact that some, if not most elders, do not take the time to read and apply what it says make it the source of some secret plot to set people up?
Don't forget, these Elders view the W/T as God's truly chosen Organization and JW's as God's people. Information provided by the W/T Organization is viewed as coming from God himself. Elders are considered to be directly appointed by God. As such, all Elders entrusted with participation in a Judicial Committee, have a serious responsibility as Sheppard's of God's Flock and Judges over the worthiness and repentance of others. These Elders need to be intimately familiar with all policies, procedures and guidelines related to that responsibility and be prepared to apply and live by those policies. Anything less would be shirking their responsibilities and doing a disservice to the Congregation and to God.
mraimondi said:
... although those notes could be personal, and it would make sense if they shouldnt be read.
I understand that the margin note information, is supplementary and updated information provided by the W/T Org. verbally at the Elders School or Meetings. The notes are hand written by each individual Elder. Again, what information in an instruction manual would be personal, confidential or otherwise shouldn't be read by others?
Since the margin note info is supplementary information to an instruction manual, shouldn't the pages be able to be updated (ie: binder form) and the information be provided in printed format directly from the Society? I was lead to believe that all JW teachings are consistent and uniform throughout the earth. If information is not provided equally for all Elder books in circulation, how can new Elders have the same information as long term Elders? How can this instruction manual be followed and applied consistently by Elders at any given time when the books may not be updated consistently? Interpretation of the verbal informantion provided, could also be understood or written inconsistantly from Elder to Elder.
mraimondi said:
the pioneer book was supposed to be a "privelege" to those who pioneer, we were told not to lend it out, but that we should show others in order to encourage them to do the same.
I'm not saying that you or the people within your Cong treated it this way, but some could interpret this not as encouragement, but a flaunting of 'I'm privileged and have something you don't have. If you don't Pioneer, you're not good enough to have one'.
mraimondi said:
Again, my experience seems to be quite different than the people here.
You were 'fortunate' that your experience was positive. Too bad what you experienced is the exception and not the rule. It would be easy for both extremes to criticize and discard the experiences of the other only because the other experience was a direct contrast to their own.
I think many of us see differences in Elder Bodies from Congregation to Congregation and from Elder to Elder. Some Elders display the best of intensions and genuinely only desire to help others, while too many like the power and prestige the position offers and use it to their own advantage. Some Elders have stronger leadership qualities while others prefer to follow along. Often, the entire 'atmosphere' of the Elder body is determined by one or two stronger personality types while others follow their lead and try not to make waves.
Perhaps in your case, the Elders with the best intensions had a strong influence over the remaining Elders in the body. Perhaps in many other congregations, the oposite is true.
here's one example: being a congregation publisher.
nowhere in the bible does it say you should be a "publisher" and turn in your time if you preach.
they try to twist the scriptures by saying that numbers are constantly being recorded in the bible so then conforming to the rules of being a publisher is from the scriptures.. yeah, right..
Regarding the Cross discussion, here is a clickable link to a Youtube video describing Ancient Torture Machines (Machines of Malice). This was on the Discovery Channel a few months ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEmhYIrk5A4&feature=related
Zoom up to 2:15 to see the video on cruxifiction.
putting on a three piece suit to spend a 90 degree summer day knocking on doors and trespassing!dragging an entire family, including babies and young children to three or four day meetings in an outdoor stadium, living in a seedy motel room for the week.getting home from work and spending the next six hours cramming for a 'theocratic review', getting the entire family ready to go, gulping down dinner, and speeding off to the hall, and then finally getting home around 11 pm, hurrying off to bed so that everyone could get up for work and school in the morning!going to school to explain to the teachers why little johnny can't color pictures of santa, salute the flag of his country, eat birthday cake with all the other 5 year olds, bow his head when prayer is offered, or exchange valentines with all the cute 5 year old girls in class.
and then explaining with grace why he is not immersed in a cult!well, on and on!
these things were typical of my witness life - now i cannot imagine ever doing such silly things, and especially thinking that somehow they would bring pleasure to my god!.
AK-Jeff,
If you can't imagine this:
Dragging an entire family, including babies and young children to three or four day meetings in an outdoor stadium, living in a seedy motel room for the week.Get aload of this:
When I grew-up in the 'truth', we attend our DC - for 7 and sometimes 8 DAYS. Sessions used to go to 9PM. Even our Circuit Assembies used to start on Friday evening and run late into Saturday evening, two full weekends per year.
One year, my parents couldn't afford to stay close to the DC, so we traveled over 100+ miles each way - every day! Not many cars then had air conditioning and were not as reliable as today, so I remember breaking down on the side of the highway on one of the days.
I recall the Society having a rooming department where, if you had a DC in close proximity to your home, they'd hound encourage you to open your home to allow Witnesses from outside of your area, to stay with you for the DC. Once, JW relations allowed other witnesses to stay with them and the visitors expected breakfast before getting ready for the day and also asking if they could stay for a week following the DC, to sight-see as they were on vacation.
It's hard to remember all the particulars but I remember that there was field service on at least one of the DC days. Your congregation 'group' would meet at the Assembly at a predetermined location and then everyone would go & blitz the city. I don't recall ever going in FS during an assembly and I believe many others didn't either although many did.
The stadiums were generally outdoors where often, the only seats were in the direct sun with no overhead covering. You'd often get sunburned in 90`F heat, bird pooped upon, drenched in the rain and pelted with sand when the wind kicked-up. Everyone had to have umbrellas and generally carried plastic garbage bags to wear over your suit/dress if it rained.
Often the seats would be so hot, you'd burn yourself sitting on them, if you were lucky fortunate enough to rate a seat. Sometimes you'd get the hard wooden benches or if you were really late, get to sit on the hard concrete ground, picnic style, so you'd better hope you remembered to bring blankets. All the time, you'd better be dressed as a good little dubbie, pretend to pay attention and not complain that you were too hot, hungry, uncomfortable or had to pee. Don't forget, there was a quiz the following week at your hall, so you'd better write something down incase you were put on the spot to give an answer.
I know this has been mentioned plenty of times in the past, but the closing prayer would last as long as a talk, all the while you're standing, swaying foot to foot and generally muttering under your breath 'hurry-up, Amen already!'.
Washrooms (especially women's) had long line-ups where it would often take 20+ minutes just to get into the room.
I can recall a local venue being directly on the international airport flight path, so planes would routinely fly low on their approach, deafening all in attendance.
Through my teenage years, all the teens would parade themselves on the ramps into the stadium, and show-off their latest fashions. If you didn't match their fashon standards, you couldn't be part of their clique (not that I wanted to hang around with snots snobs) and were considered a nobody. Some of you will know of this location as I've read about this same experience and location mentioned here previously.
The sound systems were often too loud and the echo made understanding anything said, an exhausting excercise. It didn't seem to matter where you'd go in and around those buildings, it all seemed to echo. One year, I noticed that the best sound was far out in the parking lot.
Early-on, hot meals were available at the DC for both lunch and dinner. Line-ups were so long, you often got the 2nd rate items with little time to eat before the sessions restarted. After the days became shorter, lunch was only available, then they cut out hot meals and offered items such as crappy burgers, ice cream, fruit bags and soda all dispensed from de-centralized stands. I know of a few people that had gotten food poisoning at the DC including my (now) S/O who was violently ill on the last day of an 8 hour away DC.
As I got older, food was cut-out alltogether and you had to bring your own. In doing this, food got better (and available all day) although it meant having to lug more stuff in and out or going off premisis as we usually did. Venues also got better, often at indoor, air conditioned arenas. The number of days was also reduced to the three or four days you mention.
After we were married, our 'assigned' DC was again an 8 hour drive away, even though there was a DC only about 2 hours from home. Being good little dubbies, we went to where we were assigned and only used the Societies list of 'Approved' places to stay. After calling virtually all of the places listed, we were only able to find 1 room, about 45 min. from the DC. After traveling all that distance, the 'approved' place was a dirty, dump of a room that you could rent by the hour, above a bar where the bathroom was shared by all the rooms on that floor. Needless to say, we got on the phone and were lucky to find another, more suitable room for 1 night and then another place for the remaining 2 nights. We drove staight home after the Sunday session.
'We' have not attended a DC now for upwards of 10 years. I believe many witnesses are still 'priviledged' to clean the DC venue top to bottom, a week or so before attending as 'delegates'. Talk about slave labour! We know of JWs that told us about going to redecorate and plant flowers OUTSIDE of the DC venue. WTH! Gotta present a good appearance to the world you know!
I don't know how we all did it then. When I think about the last time I attended a DC, it was an exhausting and demoralizing experience, even though it was ONLY three days. If you haven't experienced anything longer than a 3 or 4 day DC that finishes at 4 or 5 PM, consider yourself lucky. You have no idea and need to understand that for some of us, the GREAT TRIBULATION has already occured.
Being a JW is truely a unique experience, compared to what most people in the 'World' need to go through.
just saw the episode of the simpsons where bart calls moe's tavern and asks for "amanda huggenkiss" and it made me laugh again .
amanda huggenkiss.
hugh jazz.
Will Power
Here's a funny Saturday Night Live skit with a whole bunch: http://www.funrestarea.com/pages/snl_robert_deniro.shtml
shouldn't this site really be called "ex jw" instead or something like that??
(in my country the eqivalent site is called "the support source").. isn't the name a bit misleading since most of us aren't jws anymore and doesn't want anything to do with them?.
just my thought.
What is the main topic of discussion of this site? Jehovah's Witnesses.
The fact that the majority of members of this site are ex-JWs is irrelavent. JWs, ex-JWs, JW studies, non-JWs, relatives of JWs, co-workers of JWs or even people looking for information on JWs - ALL are welcome. The common item bringing these people together is the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Incognito
a lot of old paintings depict it as a t shape.. this one is c.1490.
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Last week, there was a show on Torture & Death machines I watched a part of. The cross was included as one of those machines. The show was on Discovery channel.
The information presented that the Roman cross was actually 'T' shaped (Tau) and did not actually cross over as is common in the Latin cross, the cross shape we are most familiar.
The stake in the Roman cross was 10 - 12' long with approx. 1/3 buried permanently in the ground, so as to be used for multiple crucifixions. The top of the stake had a tenon (smaller dimensioned protrusion cut from the larger stake) which would fit into a socket (mortise) cut into the centre of a 6’ cross beam (patibulum). In this manner, the cross beam was actually balancing on top of the stake with the mortise/tenon joint securing the two pieces together with no other fastening method needed.
The condemned would be nailed to the cross beam while the beam was on the ground. To hang the beam was simply a matter of hoisting the beam (with prisoner) to the top of the stake and inserting the tenon into the mortise.
Nailing the condemned is usually most effective when done through the wrist, between the larger bones as this area would be able to support the persons weight while less likely to rip as would be likely if nailed through the hands. Nailing the hands would result in more pain but ropes would have had to be used to lash the persons arms to the cross beam for added support.
It was discussed that utilizing a cross beam was far more torturous than fastening the hands straight overhead. As an example, in gymnastics, a gymnast hanging by overhead bar or rings, can comfortably stay hanging longer, than a gymnast doing the ‘Iron cross’ with arms straight out.
They also showed that the feet were normally nailed to the sides of the stake; they had depicted the nails going through the ankles. It said that the crucified would have difficulty breathing so they would often push up using their legs to help exhale. It was stated that this was the cruellest part of the process. By nailing the feet in the manner just described, when the person would push up, injured nerves in both the ankle/feet and wrist/hands would be reactivated, resulting in intense pain shooting through the entire body making breathing part of the torture process.
Described with the physical description of this machine, its location and oriention were planned to give the condemned the most weather exposure (sun, wind etc) to help wear them down.
Gravity was as the main force that caused torture & ultimately death. Since the crucified slumps lower and lower as time passes, a sign fastened to the crossbeam would be located above the condemned persons head.