Posts by Incognito

10

MEMORIAL INVITATION: "Scan code for other locations"

by compound complex in

jw
friends

on the back of the memorial invitation is a box containing a strange pattern that is edged by three small boxes that each hold three small black squares within.

beneath the pattern is a series of numbers and letters.. how is this code scanned?.

cc.

Incognito

Hi CC,

That is called a QR code. They can be scanned with a smartphone camera using a QR code scanning app.

130

Involved with a JW woman

by jonza in

okay so i'm dating a born-in jw woman, she's younger than me and has no kids.

i'm a christian man whos divorced with 2 kids.

we're in love and seriously want to be together.

Incognito

Jonza said:

Incognito: I understand her situation and why she has to keep me secret, especially with everything she's willing to give up to be with me.

That does not answer the question I asked. If you don't wish to publically state how YOU FEEL, at least be honest with yourself and with her.

Being with you (Marrying you -an unbeliever) is not a disfellowshipping offense although it is not looked upon favourably. Sex while unmarried is a disfellowshipping offense but she has been keeping that under wraps.

What is it you think she is willing to give up to be with you?

As it's so easy for her to mislead her family and the people she considers as representing God's organization, how much easier will it be to mislead you when a situation is difficult for her?

There's no way I'd let my kids hear how their Dad worships satan/demons and is part of a world wide false religion.

You haven't heard the talks that 'warn' JWs, (kissing, being married to, having sex with) an unbeliever, is equal to (kissing, being married to, having sex with) a corpse since the unbeliever will soon die at Armageddon.

She just says we're not having any then... So given that, should I still move forward with this relationship?

A relationship should not be dependant on children. If you don't have a strong base to start with, you cannot provide a good, stable and happy environment for yourselves much less any children that may come about.

The thought of no kids with me has made her emotionally distraught, just like I thought it would. The only conslusion I can think of is that we can have them, but not be brought up in her religion.

Based only upon a hypothetical situation, you already agree to compromise to give-in to manipulation.

With the caveat that they don't celebrate Christmas, mostly no tree/decorations except they are allowed to get and open presents on Christmas day (I'm not sure how else she thinks we celebrate it, maybe bowing down to the Christmas tree or something lol), I can live with that.

Another compromise to keep peace even though you don't understand the reason behind it.

I believe the main reason for no tree, no lights etc, these things are usually visible to the outside of the home or are impossible to hide, thereby making Christmas celebration very obvious, especially to members of her congregation and family who may pass-by or drop-in.

Presents OTOH, are lower key as they will remain a 'secret' sin as they can be easily hidden from plain sight. I already doubt that gift wrappings if any, will have a Christmas theme. I also doubt the children will be able to state what they 'got for Christmas'.

As Laika stated, there are other holidays in addition to Christmas which are taboo to JWs. As there are often associated activities in school including daily opening ceremonies, what else will you be expected to compromise to? (Awww pleeeeease - for me- just this one thing!)

In addition to her expectations and requirements, you will also need to deal with the expectations and requirements of her JW parents. It could be three against you with you portrayed as the 'bad' and unreasonable one. Your children will be confused as they will be told the fun things you advocate, make Jehovah 'sad'. (see this video of a JW cartoon movie about 'Caleb')

Relationships are already hard enough without being made more difficult due to baggage from a cult upbringing. Although I have no doubt your GF is sincere in stating she will allow certain things which she had been brought up to believe were 'bad', she has not given full consideration to future outcomes although she now seems to think that whatever can be hidden from other people is OK.

The indoctrination is so deep rooted, this cult will become a larger focus especially after she has had children and after experiencing any other major life event (ie: major illness or death of a close relation).

If you think this topic consumes much time and energy now, you haven't seen anything yet.

Unless she herself recognises the religion is BS, there is little you or anyone else can do to change her attitude or mindset.

Good luck in how you proceed!

130

Involved with a JW woman

by jonza in

okay so i'm dating a born-in jw woman, she's younger than me and has no kids.

i'm a christian man whos divorced with 2 kids.

we're in love and seriously want to be together.

Incognito

jonza said:

She also said, even when she was 'spiritually strong' (now she claims she's not, I guess because she's about to be DF) that she never did more than 2 hours preaching a month and that she never listened to them when it came to not listening to 'bad' music or watch 'bad' TV etc so she never let them control her life really. So she says even when she gets refellowshipped she will just be like that again.

When we were first starting our relationship the elders found out about me, and they disciplined her, they told her if we got together it would be many many (implied over 10) years before she would be refellowshipped; from that point on she's hid me. So she's not planning on going back to the KH for at least 6 months after she moves, then she will do her 10hours preaching a month to get refellowshipped, then go back to her 2 hours a week preaching that she used to do when 'spiritually strong'

What do you think about her keeping you as her secret lover? What do you think about your woman being disciplined by other men, for only having a normal relationship with you?

She appears to be trying to sell the concept of herself to you by telling you what you want to hear. If she truly does not buy into the whole JW concept and all of their requirements, why does she continue to attend and why is she already planning to do anything they require to 'refellowship'?

It appears the elders have already decided that she will not be worthy of forgiveness for at least 10 years. Ask her, what bible scripture supports that treatment?

BTW: As a disfellowshipped JW, she will not be permitted to 'preach' door-to-door representing herself as a JW as while disfellowshiped, she is not considered a JW but must otherwise do exactly as the elders tell her otherwise, they will not consider her worthy of reinstatement (refellowship).

To requalify, she WILL be shunned while required to attending every meeting for an extended period of time - possibly years. If she misses a few meetings for an unworthy reason (as defined by the elders), the clock will likely reset to zero thereby requiring her to start again.

If you have children and they attend with her, there will be a high probability that they too will be shunned in similar fashion as their mother. Ask yourself: Is this how you want your children treated or to see their mother treated?

Looking at the bigger picture, if you both have children, what will be her expectations with regards to medical treatment (blood transfussion) if that was required?

There are numerous people who have posted here before you, in similar situations and asking similar questions as you. When long term, experienced posters tell them what they don't want to hear, often they respond with "Yes, BUT" as though their situation is different than all the others.

You asked questions. The answers you receive may not be as you had hoped for.

23

New requirement to be Recommended

by bruh2012 in

per co last night, he mentioned in his talk that in oder for a brother to be recommended as an elder or ministrial servant he must have a regular and meaningful family worship night.

this will demostrate his willingness not to miss that important meeting and preside over his household.. so i thought, wow what a way to add to the "inspired" biblical list of qualifications.

serving jehovah is sounding more and more and more organizational..

Incognito

I agree with OnTheWayOut's comment.

When most are made an Elder, studies soon die off as they can claim they are too busy preparing parts and dealing with Elder stuff. Anyone made Ministrial Servant maybe more finatical, especially when they are striving to become an Elder.

When I was a child, family studies were torturous and always dreaded. Luckily, my parents did not adhere to a set schedule without soon dropping it. When it did occur, regardless of the age of the children, the study was always a full hour sitting upright at the kitchen table. It was an easy way to obtain an hour for each parent, often in the final week of the month when they did not do much door knocking earlier that month.

55

Israel National News reports a most amazing story about JWs

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/flash.aspx/288677#.ux9165ao7l9.

court rejects missionary lawsuit against netanya schools for voiding leasethe tel aviv magistrates court has rejected a claim by a missionary group, saying that the school they had been renting space in unlawfully voided their contract , and asking the court to instruct the school to pay nis 108,000 in compensation and mental anguish, as well as legal expenses.. it began when a missionary group, via a non-profit organization called "mitzpe l'yisrael", rented space at the raziel school in netanya to conduct daily afternoon activities.

shortly after signing the rental agreement , the school authorities discovered that the group was, in reality, the notorious missionary sect of "jehovah's witnesses".

Incognito

Thanks for the clarification valkyrie!

As the article stated: demanding that the school carry out the contract and pay the NIS 108,000 in damages.

it appeared the demand was to pay NIS the damage amount.

In this part of the world, we are acustomed to the currency being identified after the amount. - ie: pay $100 USD in damages, but the currency type is usually not identified when mentioned within a 'local' newspaper.

55

Israel National News reports a most amazing story about JWs

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/flash.aspx/288677#.ux9165ao7l9.

court rejects missionary lawsuit against netanya schools for voiding leasethe tel aviv magistrates court has rejected a claim by a missionary group, saying that the school they had been renting space in unlawfully voided their contract , and asking the court to instruct the school to pay nis 108,000 in compensation and mental anguish, as well as legal expenses.. it began when a missionary group, via a non-profit organization called "mitzpe l'yisrael", rented space at the raziel school in netanya to conduct daily afternoon activities.

shortly after signing the rental agreement , the school authorities discovered that the group was, in reality, the notorious missionary sect of "jehovah's witnesses".

Incognito

Here is an older article about oposition to JWs in Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/jehovah-s-witnesses-grow-by-devious-methods-charge-anti-missionaries-1.242909

55

Israel National News reports a most amazing story about JWs

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/flash.aspx/288677#.ux9165ao7l9.

court rejects missionary lawsuit against netanya schools for voiding leasethe tel aviv magistrates court has rejected a claim by a missionary group, saying that the school they had been renting space in unlawfully voided their contract , and asking the court to instruct the school to pay nis 108,000 in compensation and mental anguish, as well as legal expenses.. it began when a missionary group, via a non-profit organization called "mitzpe l'yisrael", rented space at the raziel school in netanya to conduct daily afternoon activities.

shortly after signing the rental agreement , the school authorities discovered that the group was, in reality, the notorious missionary sect of "jehovah's witnesses".

Incognito

The wording of the article is somewhat confusing.

It began when a missionary group, via a non-profit organization called "Mitzpe L'Yisrael", rented space at the Raziel school

So was "Mitzpe L'Yisrael" an exisiting organization that the JWs partnered with to use to their advantage?

If it is an exisiting organization, is it an offshoot of the WT or is it a non-JW group?

Since it mentions a missionary group VIA non-profit organization Mitzpe L'Yisrael - did the JWs actually call themselves NIS? (whatever that means)

If they referred to themselves as NIS but rented the school through Mitzpe L'Yisrael, this probably added even more confusion to the school administration as to who they actually are.

rebel8 asked:

To play the devil's advocate (or to ask an obvious question, depending upon your perspective), how is this deceptive if the name they used means Watchtower?

The lease was for "daily afternoon activities". What is that? Field service meeting? They could have just used someone's home.

Although they may have used the name Watchtower as part of a new name, the new name was obviously not recognized by the average citizen or by the school administration, to be 'Jehovah's Witnesses'.

I don't pretend to know the status of JWs in Israel, it appears that similar to some other countries, there is some sort of opposition against them.

The court seems to support the opposition while recognizing that in using an alternate name as a front, the JWs intended to misrepresent who they really are.

30

International Conventions for 2014 - Landover, MD - What is an International Convention?

by insearchoftruth in

have been out of touch for a while, i see that there is an 'international' convention this year in landover, md (fed ex field) and there are no english conventions in either richmond or hampton, va. what is an 'international convention', is it merely a consolidation of all the other conventions meant to whip up some fervor amongst the masses?.

Incognito

Doubting Bro said:

Finally, I've heard (a family member told me and I believe that person) that there have been local needs parts in some congregations to quit mummering about the venue!

Ah! The usual procedure: The beatings will continue - until morale improves.

I suspect the local needs part amounted to the following: 'How dare you complain about the venue Jehovah has graciously made available through his faithful slave. Readjust YOUR attitude Brothers and be grateful!'

Watch to see if the Elder giving that 'advice' will have an excuse afterward, as to why he and his family could not attend that convention but instead, had to attend an alternate (read: more comfortable) convention venue on another weekend.

30

International Conventions for 2014 - Landover, MD - What is an International Convention?

by insearchoftruth in

have been out of touch for a while, i see that there is an 'international' convention this year in landover, md (fed ex field) and there are no english conventions in either richmond or hampton, va. what is an 'international convention', is it merely a consolidation of all the other conventions meant to whip up some fervor amongst the masses?.

Incognito

Insearch:

When discussing restrictions on attending, unless the 'rules' have changed since I stopped attending, restrictions are placed on attending an International Convention in another country, not the IC that the local congregation is assigned to.

If your wife's study conductor congregation is assigned to the one at Fed Ex Field, then that venue is where your wife would automatically also attend as that is the convention location for her local congregation. In the very least, the Sunday talk is always called a Public Discourse whether any of the public actually attend or not.

19

EVIDENCE CONVENTION-ATTENDANCES ARE IN DECLINE?

by steve2 in

jw
friends

there are many threads on this forum about the stultifying tedium of the conventions.

memories of one convention merge with every other convention over the years with few sticking out as high points.. in recent years, there have been lots of anecdotal reports (primarily from western countries) of an astonishingly low number of baptismal candidates at these conventions, and in particular district conventions - especially compared to the higher numbers who presented for baptisms in earlier decades.

is this decline also reflected in general attendances at the conventions?.

Incognito

In this part of the world, the DC's had historically been scheduled during July & August, months when children are normally away from school on summer vacation.

I understand that over the past decade or so, many summer conventions have been scheduled earlier, often in early June when most children are still in school. While parents of younger children may opt to remove their children from school on Friday to attend the DC, teens may not have that luxury as they may need to write final exams at that time.

In this manner, the WT is responsible for the decline in attendees, particularly on Friday.

As far as conditions are concerned, JWs today have far less to endure with a 3 day, 10-5 program, often held in an air conditioned venue.

When I was growing-up, summer conventions were 5, 6 and sometimes 8 days long and would end each night at 9pm except for the final day. As venues were usually baseball or football stadiums or horse race tracks, attendees would remain outdoors in full sun & rain while sitting on hard, uncomfortable wooden slatted seats or benches while dressed in suits and dresses.

As there was usually only one convention designated for a large area, there were few options to split the convention over multiple weekends. Even if another convention was located relatively close-by, attending it would have been considered a rebelious act as anyone doing so would not be attending their assisgned convention.