Posts by Incognito

8

Politically Neutral? Can a legalistic organization claim that status?

by OrphanCrow in

i found a document that discusses the canadian tax law for religions.. http://www.carters.ca/pub/seminar/church/2010/kjc0824.pdf.

i have long held the view that the org/wts says that it is non-political yet they behave like a political organization.

and it bothers me that religions are restricted from political activity yet the org has always been political.

Incognito

I can't envisage it being legally relevant whether legal work is done in-house or not. - credulity

The articles within the link provided, summarize some of Glen How's legal accomplishments in Canadian civil liberties and various other Canadian laws involving religious activities.

While it is stated Glen How's work on behalf of JWs benefitted them, it is not clear if he or his firm was retained by WT at the time to represent their interests in those various actions. He may have acted on his own as an independent lawyer. As a practising JW, he had a vested interest in laws which impact a person's freedom to practice their chosen religion.

So too with legal matters in other countries, is the firm retained by WT to represent them, or is the firm 'technically' acting independently from WT, even as their main office is located at the Canadian WT branch?

In law, it comes down to evidence and what may be proven in court.

... to present itself as a neutral and commercial law firm, when it is nothing more than a legal front for WTS, its sole client. - credulity

I don't recall claims of being neutral. There is substantial info on the firm's website to suggest it is not neutral but very biased towards JWs.

Is WT its sole client, or does the firm possibly also represent other JWs that might need representation in religious matters?

Legal representation may include matters such as involving JW parents defending against a court order forcing blood for their child, a child custody action against a non-believing spouse, or congregation elders defending their actions after child sexual assault was reported and they had forced the victim to meet with the accused.

29

Watchtower Spies and Secret Agents

by TerryWalstrom in

i'm posting this link:http://jwdivorces.bravehost.com/spies.htmlonce you start reading it you won't be able to stop.fascinating and well-documented citations which give credibility to the belief that such a sneaky, underhanded, and often illegal practice has been secretly promoted for decades by watchtower society world headquarters..

Incognito

I do know for a certainty in the 70's they would follow suspicious activities of members (like going into gay club etc) and definitely watching singles homes to catch them fornicating

I am also aware that certain elders would follow and stake-out cong members if the elders suspected or received reports the person (baptised or not) was behaving in an unapproved manner. Whether that activity was sanctioned by WT can only be speculated on but as I have since read where similar also occurred in other locations, leads me to suspect the elder's behaviour had been sanctioned.

Whether surveillance continues to occur, IDK.

Just because we may not wish to believe something or have witnessed it occurring for ourselves, does not mean it doesn't happen.

14

When Invited To Attend A Judicial Meeting Ask If Your Lawyer Could Accompany You

by Brokeback Watchtower in

they will come back to you and deny your request, ask them to ask the service department to get organizational procedures.

if still denied refuse to attend with out your lawyer present.

and then ask them who has fairer judicial practices satan's world or jehovah's earthly organization.. no recordings allowed, and definitely no lawyers!

Incognito

with the latest win in Canada

If you are referring to the Df'd real-estate agent who lost his action against WT for effecting his ability to earn a living, that was IMO the correct outcome. A JW real-estate agent should not be relying on JW's as clients to provide his income.

The OP refers to representation or an advisor being present during a JC 'hearing'. As implied in one of the responses, if you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question. If asked if a lawyer or other representative may attend, elders will say NO.

As the person on trial and you wish to take some control, you then tell the elders in writing your conditions and requirements for you to attend a JC hearing. It then becomes their decision if they will comply to your requirements. If they do not wish to comply, they may drop the matter or they could proceed to DF you without you being there.

It's WT's club. WT sets the rules and conditions for membership. If you no longer wish to adhere to those requirements, they are within their rights to remove you from membership. To reduce legal action due to defamation or slander, real or implied, any announcement no longer states a person was removed (DF'd) or any reason, but only advises the congregation that the person is no longer a JW.

9

Who helps the most - POMO or PIMO

by Ray Frankz in

i was recentely talking to my girl who is also awaken about if there were any chance of the org to lose at least its power and authority since i believe to expect a destruction of the org is unreal i came to the conclusion that the best way to help jws is by means of the pimos.. if we take the own jw logic (the world is bad but we need to live among them in order to bring them to our side) i think that if a good part of the people who left when found ttatt stayed in they we could have much more awaken people today.

when you are out it gets extremely hard to gain the trust of any jehovah's witness to begin with.

every totalitarian government had to fight rebels among them.. im not being numb to the causes of anyone who decided to leave.

Incognito

we are not Ray Franz

Ray Franz unlike any R&F JW past or present, probably had the greatest potential to affect positive change within the Org. Not only was he a member of the GB, his uncle was President and the source of most JW doctrine so Ray may have had some influence which other GB members may not have had. When Ray pointed out alternate (and proper) biblical interpretations contrary to WT practices, the remaining GB including his uncle, found ways to eliminate him not only from his position on the GB but from the entire organization.

A person that considers themselves PIMO, is usually not speaking out as Ray did, but simply going along to keep family peace and harmony even as he/she may not be at peace or happy within themselves.

30

Helping my husband wake up, need advice.

by Whynot in

my husband is dfed but he is a prime example of someone who was a puppet for the watchtower.

i was able to wake him a little with the sex abuse scandal.

he was an elder and is very familiar with those rules.

Incognito

Steven Hassan is a mental health counsellor who specialises in helping families of people involved in cults. Steven is an ex-Moonie.

He has written various books including "Combating Cult Mind Control" and "Releasing the Bonds". These books may be beneficial for you to read as opposed to your husband as they provide advice on dealing with a cult member and methods to help him to change his thought patterns and recognize matters as they really are.

Your husband will not consider anything to be wrong with his thinking or beliefs so he would likely be opposed and resist reading anything such as the book you gave him, that suggests there is something wrong with him or the JW religion.

To remove someone from a cult usually means working against the person's will. Unless your husband recognizes for himself the inconsistencies and wrongness of the religion, expect any success will be a long process that will sometimes involve two steps forward and three steps back.

45

A&E - Cults and Extreme Belief - Jehovah's Witnesses

by Incognito in

jw
friends

i haven't seen this posted.. tuesday may 29, 2018 @ 10pm (new york time zone).

cults and extreme belief - jehovah's witnesses.

Incognito

at no time would any CEO or company head of a massive corp be readily available just to chat with a walk-in without a formal appt.

Although I agree with you and previous posters regarding a CEO being unlikely to be available, a larger corp such as WT will typically have a PR or other official that could meet with and troubleshoot such a request. When a person is upset, they may ask for the top person when they often just want to speak with someone with authority, to hear and understand their concern. A security guard, receptionist, tour guide or junior clerk would not satisfy that request. Even if the person does not possess authority to deal with the specific concern, the complainant should feel satisfied and confident that their issue was received, treated seriously, and will be communicated to the appropriate person(s).

WT was shown to be unconcerned and uncaring to fellow JWs, not showing even common courtesy to at minimum, find out why she traveled there and wanted to meet. The gate guard had advised that someone would greet her if she waited in the 'holding' area indicated, but instead, two stuffed shirts sat in a vehicle and only observed her from a distance. They could have in the least, pulled their vehicle alongside her vehicle or had spoken to her through the fence. Even if they saw cameras, they could have agreed to speak on condition that cameras are not present. Instead, she sat waiting, looking at them watching her for almost 40 minutes until she finally accepted her request would not be fulfilled whereby she decided to leave.

While she and the program crew may have anticipated there would not be a meeting with a GB member, I doubt any of them expected WT's response being as poor and cold as it was.

33

New name for Herd

by blownaway in

sam rolex

Incognito

shown a two-tone Rolex off the street that was only $185

What exactly does "off the street" mean? Is this another way of saying 'lifted' or 'five finger discount'?

There's a way the Rolex thieves can spot the authentic ones

Rolex design, develop and produce the entire watch including all parts. Their design and tight tolerances apparently do not produce a ticking sound as the others do so the lack of sound in a mechanical timepiece is one method to verify an authentic Rolex from a Faux-lex.

Tell-if-a-Rolex-Watch-is-Real-or-Fake

30

Leaked videos - Why?

by NewYork44M in

thank you to those that have passed on "leaked" videos.

one point that i have not seen discussed is "why" apostates are getting these videos.. are videos getting out because of a lack of internal controls, or are there more than a few disloyal insiders that are more than happy to pass on inside information.

or, is there a strategic intent of releasing leaked videos?.

Incognito

They overinflate themselves, but the reality if that they are quite mediocre in everything they do.

Yet, WT has been so successful containing the paedophile files that various courts continue to demand access to. If WT's data security is so inept or at least mediocre, it's surprising someone hasn't successfully accessed and circulated even a portion of that database.

I believe "leaking" supposed inside information, is often employed by corporations of all types, as a means to build anticipation, excitement. or create buzz for the company or its products.

Consider that although Apple does not outwardly release specifications, designs or technology advancement plans for its next iPhone prior to an official release announcement, whenever there is an advance 'leak' regarding that info, the tech news world goes nuts wanting to be first to report leaked info, whether factual or not.

I think 'leaks' serve Apple well as someone considering a new phone prior to Apple's release announcement, may decide to delay the purchase of another brand, to at least confirm if the leaked iPhone info is actually true and further consider if the new iPhone might be worthwhile.

The WT 'leaks' we see on this forum, whether regarding WT finances or other matters, typically result in numerous long threads and plenty of speculation presented as fact. While info that is leaked may not be totally false, it may not be necessarily complete or may be worded in a way so a reader might be lead to conclude things that are not totally factual.

If I was WT and I have 'enemies' (Ex-JWs) that are like pit bulls, constantly examining everything I do and attempting to bite me in the butt, I might be inclined to throw them a meaty bone every so often so as to distract them and get them off my back.

33

New name for Herd

by blownaway in

sam rolex

Incognito

Rolex remains an expensive brand which many people still consider as upscale and the people who wear them to have money. Consider the age of most GB members.

Even if the GB wear Rolex clones, they seem to wish to convey affluence and prestige which is a total contradiction to their instructions to r&f JW's to simplify and be happy with basics.

34

I Think Their Is A Move Coming From Higher Ups To Get These Insane Idiot Out Of The Drivers Seat Of Jehovah's Chariot

by Brokeback Watchtower in

look at all the lawsuits, scandals, unsuccessful cover up, contribution shrinkage, stopped building project, and much more.

these guys are steering jehovah's chariot off a cliff if someone don't put the breaks on these delusional clowns.. so what do you think is there something a foot there at chemical dump clean up site warwick?

i bet you a coup is in the offing, because you know not everyone close to the governing body believes their bull shit but are playing along until the time is right to keep the wt ship from sinking like the titanic..

Incognito

The Governing Body has no direct connection to any of the legal corporations

Although none of the GB names may be shown in articles of incorporation or as executives for any of the corporations, that does not signify the GB don't control the operations of those corporations through the 'yes men' they have appointed to be the public face for those corporations.

I suspect the GB rely heavily on the legal and accounting departments for advice when making corporate decisions. That would include methods to insulate themselves from liability for decisions they make as a group or individually.

Deny, deny, deny, just as G. Jackson did while testifying at the ARC.