Posts by confuzzlediam

19

Is Watchtower's position on smoking consistent with its position on masturbation?

by Island Man in

watchtower considers masturbation to be a form of uncleanness but not a disfellowshipping offence because the bible says nothing about masturbation.

a jw who masturbates is likely to face no more than losing privileges in the congregation.. like masturbation, smoking is considered by jws to be a form of uncleannes and like masturbation, the bible says nothing about it.

but a jw who smokes faces disfellowshipping.. yes, smoking is known to be deleterious to a person's health whereas the jury is still out on the adverse health effects of masturbation.

confuzzlediam

mynameislame I did appeal it. We met a week later with 3 additional elders from the surrounding circuit/district. A total of 6 elders were present for my appeal. The only thing they did at the appeal meeting was drop my "charges" from being a drunkard to being an excessive drinker.

My parents wrote into the society on my behalf, saying that this was unjust and that the way the elders treated the congregation members was unloving and not Christ-like. The society responded saying it was out of their hands and basically they supported the local elders decision to disfellowship and reprove the group. My parents were devastated!

My situation was unique in that there was only 1 elder from my congregation that was on my committee. The other 2 were from different congregations, one being a substitute CO from 2 hours away. This was because they were conducting "interviews" with the 20ish people who attended an annual tradition of bowling the night before thanksgiving. Someone went to the elders to say that there was too much drinking and unchristian like conduct that went on that night. The CO and DO at the time formed a committee to "interview" each participant as to their conduct that night AND the conduct of their fellow christian brothers and sisters. If they admitted to being drunk that night or any other night prior to the occasion AND were repentant, they were only publicly reproved. If they admitted to being drunk that night or any other night prior and were NOT repentant, they were disfellowshipped. OR if they admitted to any other wrongdoing and were not repentant, they were disfellowshipped.

My "interview" started with 2 elders. They talked to my husband while I was in another room. Then brought me back into the room and talked with me. After they dismissed us, so they could talk, they asked us back into the same room where a 3rd elder had magically appeared. Thus, my impromptu judicial committee. It was a grueling 3 hours where I was left feeling like someone had punched me repeatedly in the stomach.

All in all there were 6 who were publicly reproved and 4 who were disfellowshipped. All but mine was announced on the same night, at the end of the meeting. Mine was announced at a later date because I was the only one who appealed it. This was a witch hunt to make sure that we were made examples of what not to do, due to the "gossip" that had extended throughout the circuit.

I was told the exact same thing!! Why didn't I just go along with the council given and say that I was sorry and would correct my behavior. Well, my behavior didn't need to be corrected, I was not what they were accusing me of being. I also heard SO many people tell me that the elders were not perfect, that they too can make mistakes and that I just needed to wait on Jehovah to correct the situation, in his time. Well, their mistake was devastating to my children, husband, and all of our friends and family.

BUT yes, in the long run, it was a blessing in disguise!!

125

WTS leader rants against higher education

by hoser in

jw
friends

on jw tv.

anthony morris is ranting against higher education.

he is blaming parents for enrolling their kids in college.

confuzzlediam

One of the comments that stood out for me was saying that if someone wanted to go into the health field, instead of spending the amount of time/money it takes to become a doctor both in college and time spent working full time after, one could become a nurse where there is less time/money in school and you could work it part time to allow for more time spent in the field service as a pioneer. (WOW that was a run on sentence!) The same thing was said for becoming a paralegal vs. an attorney, if one was interested in the field of law.

Basically if you are going to school to support yourself in the pioneer work, it is ok to get a higher education. BUT if you are going to school to support a family and work full time, then it is not ok. What a crock of crap!

I found this SO difficult to watch. It literally made me sick to my stomach. My parents took me out of school when I was not quite 16 because of the "bad association" I was getting into. No further education was pursued. I married at 18, worked telemarketing till my daughter was born at 23 and was a stay at home mom for 20 years, till I left and filed for divorce this past year.

Now I am 44 and am a full time student at the local community college and will transfer to the university once I get my associate's degree. My 20 year old daughter will be receiving her associate's degree at the end of this quarter and will be moving on to earn her bachelor's at the university. My son, who is 17 1/2 just started attending the local community college with me in December. It is SO cool to experience college life with my kiddos!! I LOVE learning and cannot wait to see where it takes me!

Thankful to no longer be part of the brainwashing that takes place in the org.

19

Is Watchtower's position on smoking consistent with its position on masturbation?

by Island Man in

watchtower considers masturbation to be a form of uncleanness but not a disfellowshipping offence because the bible says nothing about masturbation.

a jw who masturbates is likely to face no more than losing privileges in the congregation.. like masturbation, smoking is considered by jws to be a form of uncleannes and like masturbation, the bible says nothing about it.

but a jw who smokes faces disfellowshipping.. yes, smoking is known to be deleterious to a person's health whereas the jury is still out on the adverse health effects of masturbation.

confuzzlediam

Finkelstein You can booze if your a JWS but don't ever pick up a cigarette and smoke it.

I was disfellowshipped 5 years ago for drinking. According to the committee that disfellowshipped me, getting drunk was compared to adultery. They likened it to 1 time of committing adultery being a disfellowshipping offense, as was getting drunk just one time.

My dad who has been a witness for most of his 75 years said he had NEVER heard of such a thing and he served as an elder for many years when he was younger. BTW I was only disfellowshipped because I did not show a repentant attitude over admitting to occasionally getting drunk over the almost 20 years that I had been of legal drinking age. I was considered a drunkard, which anyone who knows me, knows different. Apparently defending myself was considered unrepentant and I was disfellowshipped for it.

SO yes, you CAN booze it if you are a JW...as long as you don't get caught, or in my case turned in for being perceived as being drunk on a night out with "friends" from the congregation. As is the case with every other sinful wrongdoing. If no one knows, then you don't get in trouble for it.

42

I Waited Until My Wedding Night To Lose My Virginity And I Wish I Hadn't...

by Divergent in

i found this article interesting & just wanted to share.

after going through my teenage years trying to be the perfect jw, i realized that trying to live up to the standards imposed on me have been for worse & not for better.

i was feeling miserable, repressed, unfulfilled, with a great lack of self confidence & self esteem.

confuzzlediam

I was the ripe old age of 14 when I lost my virginity. A year later, I gave it another whirl. Was not too impressed with it. Was baptized at 16, met my husband when I was 17 1/2 and married not quite 6 months later at just 18. We waited to have sex till our wedding night. Sex was ok. I never craved it with him. 3 1/2 years later, I strayed, admitted it and was forgiven. We went on to have 3 babies, losing the first one at 28 weeks along, due more than likely to the stress brought on by the infidelity.

I left my husband of 25 years in April 2014 and filed for divorce in June because he could not get over the infidelity that happened early in our marriage and I could not get over the constant threatening to leave or divorce because of his insecurities.

I met and started dating my boyfriend (who is also disfellowshipped) 5 months ago and have a VERY healthy sex life!! Who knew it could be this good! I crave sex with him and could easily be happy with it once or twice a day! LOL

Being raised as a JW you are warned against fornicating. It is something that is presented as being "dirty", at least it was for me. Over and over again we are told from the stage that we would not inherit God's kingdom if we engaged in this sin...this gross sin. SO I married at a VERY young age, pushed into it by my parents, just to avoid fornicating and displeasing God.

Now, I have 2 AMAZING kids, ages 17 and 20, that I would not have if I had not married when I did. For that, I would not trade my decision to marry young, for the world. BUT because of my experience, my kids know how I feel about marrying too young and the importance of having a college education before making such a serious commitment.

20

Do current JWs like to have Bible discussions?

by Magnum in

on another thread rufus t. firefly made this interesting comment:.

my wife is a "zealous" regular pioneer who never talks about the bible or "the truth" and who has no interest in conducting a bible study with anyone.

this is how one remains a jw.. i decided to start a new thread to discuss this, since i didn't want to veer completely off the topic of the original thread.. i can relate to what rufus said - not concerning my wife, but other close jw family members.

confuzzlediam

When one attends the meetings 2 days a week, goes out in service 10 hours a month and is supposed to do personal study and family study, who wants to talk about spiritual things in their free time? There is plenty of time before, during and after meeting to have spiritual discussions.

Or maybe that is how I felt when I used to go. When with my witness friends at the time, the only thing spiritual we would discuss would be gossiping about what's going on with who in the congregation! LOL Or discuss life in general. No need to talk about the bible any other time then the allotted time given each week at the required meetings.

10

Outline - elders meeting with pioneers

by naeuca in

if you happen to have the outline for this years annual pioneer meeting with elders can you please copy and paste to me in reply or send me the link i'm pdf please.

thank you very much know advance!

naeuca.

confuzzlediam

I like to look up the meaning to words that I am not quite sure of the definition. I know the general gist of what charisma is, but after seeing what was written as a definition by the society for kharisma, I thought I would check it out. I first searched for the spelling that the society used, but it changed it to "charisma" each time I searched. What I found was VERY interesting...

This is the society's version, which is spelled Kharisma: "The word “gift” here is translated from the Greek word kharisma. From the Scriptural stand-point, kharisma is a gift received thanks to God’s undeserved kindness (w98 2/15 24-26)"

This is the definition that I found via The Free Dictionary online:

cha·ris·ma

(kə-rĭz′mə)

n. pl. cha·ris·ma·ta (-mə-tə)

1.

a. A rare personal quality attributed to leaders who arouse fervent popular devotion and enthusiasm.

b. Personal magnetism or charm: a television news program famed for the charisma of its anchors.

2. also char·ism (kăr′ĭz′əm) Christianity An extraordinary power, such as the ability to perform miracles, granted by the Holy Spirit.

[Greek

kharisma

,

divine favor

,

from

kharizesthai

,

to favor

,

from

kharis

,

favor

;

see

gher-

in

Indo-European

roots.]

Note that the Greek meaning for "kharisma" is divine favor. Maybe I need to do more research on the word, but it looks to me as if the meaning in the dictionary does not match the meaning given by the society. It really should not surprise me, yet it does.

SO pioneers are considered leaders according to the definition cited here. They arouse fervent popular devotion, and have extraordinary powers that are granted by the holy spirit, or according to the society a gift received, thank to God's undeserved kindness. And are also in divine favor, according to the greek meaning.

Anyone have additional thoughts on this? Would love to hear someone else's input on this.

29

Shunning Disfellowshipped & Apostate family Members. Scriptural?

by objectivetruth in

anyone who is a witness or was previously a witness, is aware of the written & un-written rules concerning association with disfellowshipped family members.. there are a multitude of quotes through out the watchtower publications, but these 2 will suffice.. "are you proving yourself holy by not associating with family members or others who are disfellowshipped?

"the clear instruction in the bible is: avoid them.

that means that we have to stay away from them... the bible says that apostates are mentally diseased and that they use their teachings to make others think like them... what must we do to avoid false teachers?

confuzzlediam

Just found this article on disfellowshipping in the November 2006 study edition:

"3. God’s servants study the Bible and Christian publications. Jehovah’s standards are discussed at their meetings, assemblies, and conventions. So Christians are in a position to know what Jehovah requires of them. Disfellowshipping takes place only if a member of the congregation unrepentantly engages in gross sin."

"4. Consider a Scriptural example of disfellowshipping. The congregation in Corinth tolerated “such fornication as [was] not even among the nations, that a wife a certain man [had] of his father.” Paul urged the Corinthians to “hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved.” (1 Corinthians 5:1-5) When disfellowshipped and thus handed over to Satan, the sinner was again part of the Devil’s world. (1 John 5:19) His expulsion removed an evil fleshly element from the congregation and preserved its godly “spirit,” or dominant attitude.—2 Timothy 4:22; 1 Corinthians 5:11-13."

Apparently, I was an evil fleshly element that needed to removed from the congregation to preserve its godly "spirit". Not only are we shunned, but we are shamed as well. Because that is what those who claim to follow Christ's example do to their fellow believers, shame us into thinking that we deserve to be treated inhumane, that we are not worthy of even a smile or greeting as we pass each other on the street. WOW!!

I have to admit, that when I was "in", I did think it was a "loving" provision. That it was necessary to keep the congregation clean. BUT on the other hand...I was torn. I still socialized with my x's mom and 2 sisters who were disfellowshipped for 15 out of the 25 years that we were married. I did not keep my kids from knowing their grandmother and aunts just because they were disfellowshipped. After all, they were kind hearted, loving women that smoked. No evil flesh existed in these women!!

SO glad they wrongfully disfellowshipped me!! Best thing EVER!!

12

Tragedy and God's Will

by cultBgone in

it's utterly amazing to me how religious belief in an omnipotent deity shapes some people's thinking.. one woman whose family missed the air asia flight which crashed stated that it was god's will to give her father hepatitis so that she canceled her family's vacation trip on that flight.

she says she believes god saved her family and protected them.

however, she later mourns the fact that she lost friends on the flight...so does she believe god deliberately planned for them to die?

confuzzlediam

This has always bothered me. How is it that God is willing to save one person from getting on that plane and yet all those who did get on it had to die? Is he that selfish that he needed more angels up in heaven as some would think? Maybe some need to believe that their loved ones are needed by God in heaven, but this goes against anything I was taught about God being a loving God. Not one that would purposefully take a loved one because he wanted another angel in heaven.

I'm also not a believer in the "power" of prayer. Why is it that some who pray regarding loved ones have their prayers answered, yet others who pray have their prayers go unanswered. Is this because one person was worthy of saving and the other was not? Was it one person's time to go and the other's not? When my SIL was dying in hospice, she begged to die, asking for us all to pray that God take her. She was done. She did not want to suffer any longer. Yet, she suffered horribly till her last dying breath. BTW she was a faithful servant of God who started pioneering after she was diagnosed with a rare sarcoma cancer. It's all a farce, in my opinion. But I may be bitter...

9

uber dub random meeting and why all the changes to the format here?!

by tiki in

ran into an uber-dub known from my history in the org......she had to be very sure i wasn't d'fed or d'aed - merely "inactive" so she could give me a big hug and inform me that she knows i'm coming back to jehovah because he understands my "hurt" and....blah blah blah.

it struck me how dependent they are on labels.......and how very stupid it is....you can hug me because i don't have the df label?

would i be a different person if i had that label?

confuzzlediam

I was wrongfully DF'd 5 years ago and joked about wearing a DF on the front of my clothing, like the letter A in the Scarlet Letter, because I had been marked for all to know that I was a sinner. People that I had known since childhood, or my BFF's from the hall, went out of their way to avoid eye contact with me, or not speaking to me but to my husband who was sitting right next to me. I hated going out in public for fear of running into someone that I knew from the congregation.

I remember telling my mom (who never stopped speaking to me) that I was still the same person, yet this label somehow defined who I was to those in the cong...someone that was looked upon as a deviant. I even tried to go back to get reinstated for my husband so his family would invite us to family functions. Which was so painful that I ended up taking meds for anxiety just to attend meetings. I might add that when his mom and sisters were DF'd for 15 out of our 25 years of marriage, I never once shunned them nor did not invite them over for dinner because they were disfellowshipped. Hell, I even went on family vacations with them. BUT when they came back, one at a time over a 5-7 year period, they all had this new lease on life so by the time I was wrongfully DF'd, they forgot the unconditional love that I showed them and shunned me, cutting me off from any family get togethers.

With the exception of when my SIL was dying. I devoted 2-3 nights a week for 4 months, to take care of her so my in-laws could get some sleep, as she was living with them at the time. The last 3 weeks she was alive, I spent all but 3 nights with her at hospice because I was the one that she had come to trust, not her parents, not her husband, not her siblings...me! She knew my heart and knew that I was the exact same person that I was before I was labeled. Sure, the family talked to me, some in the congregation talked to me while I was taking care of my SIL, but once she died, sadly it went back to the way it was. No more social interaction.

Labeling is what JW's do. From being labeled as bad association based on lack of meeting attendance or field service hours, to being over zealous because you are an elder, ms or a pioneer. Those who skirt the labeling are ones who get their 10 hours in a month, hit 2/3 of the meetings and read a scripture once in a while. That is how I lived most of my JW life.

5 years after being disfellowshipped, and recently filed for divorce from my husband of 25 years, I am a much better person and am thankful, yes thankful, that I was wrongfully df'd. I do not allow my "label" to define me and I could give 2 shits less about what anyone in the org thinks about me. I no longer feel sorry for myself, but I feel sorry for them!! I proudly wear this label now!! I wish that they could experience the freedom that I have found outside the confines of the religion. I hate what this religion does to their "followers" and hope that those who are shunned by their families and former JW friends find the freedom that I have found and stop allowing these labels to define who we are.

52

Bible's mention of physical beauty- why?

by Magnum in

for years, as i've read through the bible, i've wondered why bible writers were concerned about physical beauty (see references below)?

i realize it's human nature to be interested in beauty, but why did they see fit to record in the so-called "word of god" the fact that some of the people they wrote about were beautiful?

looks are not supposed to matter according to jw doctrine (and probably the doctrine of many christian-professing sects).

confuzzlediam

Illustrative writing. Simply the writers were being descriptive regarding their subjects. How boring would it be to read a book that had no details on what they were writing. Details on their appearance gives us something to imagine. Isn't that what writers do? Describe with detail a scene, people, or events that happened? I don't know. Maybe too simple of an explanation, without going into the differences in writers, time and place? Just a thought.