jw's at least *try* to have scriptural backing for all their little doctrines.
it may only be two obscure references to two cultures a thousand years apart celebrating a birthday, but at least they've got *something*.. have you ever known them to pony up any sort of biblical reference to justify the formation of a "judicial committee"?
i know they have their pet shunning scriptures, but that's after the committee meets and decides to axe you.
They are exposed by their own words! That's what they said about Israel's legal system:
*** g81 1/22 p. 17 Searching Out Legal Roots ***Since the local court was situated at the city gates, there was no question about the trial being public! (Deut. 16:18-20) No doubt the public trials helped influence the judges toward carefulness and justice, qualities that sometimes vanish in secret star-chamber hearings.
Neo
i don't know if anyone has posted this already but i just got the e-mail.
here's a very disturbing story about jehovah's witnesses called, "jehovah's witnesses call all members family.
" it paints a very rosy picture of the organization.
Hi Brenda!
Welcome to JWD!!
Neo
first page... this book issued to________________ date___________ place of baptism____________ date___________.
contents:.
1. organanized to do jehovahs will.
TheEdge said:
do you think there's also subliminal messages in the literature?
No, I don't think there's anything "subliminal" in the publications - even in the artwork - that could be put there on purpose to influence the reader below the level of conciousness. The WT leaders laugh when they are told that "apostates" teach that the WT publishes subliminal propaganda, because they know they don't waste their time doing that. They operate on other levels of mind control, like repetition and mind-numbing routine.
What I do find deeply ironic is their unvoluntary self-promotion to the role of Third Person of the Trinity in the opening chapters of the new book. They didn't do that conciously and actually trapped themselves with their own words.
That's what happened: The WT came to understand that, now that their days of glory are over, they have to constantly reinforce the basis of their authority, which is the "faithful and discreet slave" doctrine. So they thought of including in the new book a whole chapter about the FDS. But, in order to accomplish that, the chapter sequence had to be rearranged. So the old Chapter 2, "Benefiting from Theocratic Subjection", was moved to the latter part of the book and the new FDS chapter was introduced. They tried to include it as early in the book as possible, but probably didn't feel like it should be put as the introductory chapter (of course) or before the chapter about "Christ's role". So it turned out to be the third chapter.
What was the result? The first three chapters ended up combining into a Trinitarian formula:
(1) Organized to do Jehovah's Will
(2) Recognizing Christ's role in God's arrangement
(3) Trusting "the Holy Spirit Faithful and Discreet Slave"
It's a kind of divine irony that they blew their fragile façade by unintentionally putting forth a parody of the Trinity that sounds blasphemous in light of orthodox Christian doctrine.
abbagail,
Although I don't share your theories on subliminal messages in WT literature and antichrist conspiracies, I agree with the following:
WT/FDS also put themselves in place of the Holy Spirit back when they made the change in the two baptismal questions in 1985, ie, From "Jehovah God, the Father, Jesus Christ, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" to "Father, Son, and God's Spirit-DIRECTED ORGANIZATION." (paraphrasing, but the actual questions can be seen online here at JWD or at Quotes' website, etc.) That sure sounds to me like a total REPLACEMENT of the Holy Spirit for the BORG, as Neo says.
The WT constantly assigns to itself roles that are commonly associated in the Bible to God, Christ or the Holy Spirit. The change in the baptismal questions are a classic example of that and I came to the same conclusions in a Baptism talk Thread. Have a look at it!
Neo
first page... this book issued to________________ date___________ place of baptism____________ date___________.
contents:.
1. organanized to do jehovahs will.
AA,
As soon as I read this, it made me think of the "belongs to" page in the cover of every children's book:
(...) It's all about "Look how important you are, you were issued a special book that only people like you can have." Give 'em a little taste of power and they'll always come back for more.
That's it. They view the R&F as little children; a very paternalistic attitude. The same "This book belongs to" is also found in the Benefit from Theocratic Ministry School Education and Learn from the Great Teacher books.
first page... this book issued to________________ date___________ place of baptism____________ date___________.
contents:.
1. organanized to do jehovahs will.
Mary,
That's different than the one I've got:
1. Organanized to do Ted Jaracz' Will
2. Recognizing Christ's non-existant role in
OurGods arrangement3. Trusting "the Faithful and Discreet slave"---Not A Smart Move
4. How the congregation is
beat into submissionorganized and governed5. Overseers to
badger and blameshepherd the flockfor all the problems in the Borg6. Ministerial servants kiss ass
render valuable service(...)
I cracked myself up when I read this. Too funny!!
Neo
i found an active web site: http://www.religion.qc.ca/fiches/fiche134.htm which indicates that the watchtower society is/was a member of the international federation of the religions and minority philosophies.
this website is in french.
if you use google to navigate to it, google will translate into english for you.. this is an association founded in switzerland and france on october 7, 1992, and is directed against the association's anti-sects.
FIREPHIM has been closed for at least seven years. Although these are not fresh news, their association with FIREPHIM is one clear piece of evidence against the WTS. They say they don't have any share with "Babylon the Great" but don't hesitate a tiny bit to join forces with obscure sects when they want to promote their cause of "religious freedom".
The 22 November, 1975 Awake! said on page 23:
Jehovah's Witnesses have nothing in common with other religious groups and can never seek any affiliation with them.
Read more in the thread WTS is a member of FIREPHIM
There's also the Watchtower Observer site, as Leolaia said: http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040312/DOCTRINE4/110060001
Neo
i found an active web site: http://www.religion.qc.ca/fiches/fiche134.htm which indicates that the watchtower society is/was a member of the international federation of the religions and minority philosophies.
this website is in french.
if you use google to navigate to it, google will translate into english for you.. this is an association founded in switzerland and france on october 7, 1992, and is directed against the association's anti-sects.
Schizm is wrong, Kaput is right (welcome, Kaput!).
Témoins de Jéhovah is their legal name in France.
Neo
one of the latest announcement letters from the wts is that people should attend special.
classes setup for the purpose of preaching to foreign language communities.
these special classes are.
Bebu, I just read your post.
My reaction to the title was that WTS rules are like a tax code! Looks like there is a new deduction/credit available to pioneers!
Bingo! I'm reminded of the quote mentioned by xjw_b12:
Luke 11:46 (New Living Translation)
46 "Yes," said Jesus, "how terrible it will be for you experts in religious law! For you crush people beneath impossible religious demands, and you never lift a finger to help ease the burden.
Neo
one of the latest announcement letters from the wts is that people should attend special.
classes setup for the purpose of preaching to foreign language communities.
these special classes are.
Euphemism said:
this just goes to show that the whole business of counting time is ridiculous; why don't the Witnesses receive 'credit' for time they spend visiting the sick or elderly, cleaning the Kingdom Hall, etc?
Exactly. They allege that it is not "sacred service". But then they create this breach where you can count time for learning a language and the contradiction deepens. They fail to grasp what love is all about.
cyber-sista,
An elder once tried to explain why we it is necessary for JWs to count time. He said that Jehovah's knows our weaknesses as humans and if we didn't have to count time many JWs would not go out in field service much. (He said personally that is how it would be with himself) AND since it is a requirement for JWs to go out in service this arrangement has been made by Jehovah to motivate us to accomplish his work....
Your story is interesting because what the elder said isn't an official WT teaching; they never had the guts to biblically justify the hour requirement. Even some local elders are better apologists that the WT.
Neo
one of the latest announcement letters from the wts is that people should attend special.
classes setup for the purpose of preaching to foreign language communities.
these special classes are.
Let me add one more case: this "hour currency" is also applied to pioneers who work on quick builds.
AlanF said:
So, over the years, the JWs have turned what was once a sincerely motivated activity into a mere sacramental ritual.
There are actually a few JWs who enjoy field service. But the hours requirement has, after some months or years, a very desensitizing effect on publishers and pioneers. Even those who truly love the work are pushed into having a legalistic view of field service, and they end up viewing it as a burden. It becames a perfunctory activity to appease their consciences.
