Posts by dubstepped

28

Making friends in the "truth"

by Jordandemm in

jw
friends

what is it about making friends in the organisation am i the only one who had found it tough?

don't get me wrong there was some good people but unfortunately there was also a lot of egotism, back stabbing, jealousy and gossiping.

i could never really fit in any group, everytime i thought i had found a group it was as if i would be sidelined or ditched.

It always seemed to me that in order to have friends you had to grow up with that set of people. My set all got DF'ed or left and I was the only one left. I moved to other congregations with my wife later and we never could make friends. We always got left out of just about anything social, as those people all had their groups of friends and kept to themselves.

After a decade and a half without any real friends we DA'd and now we have friends in the evil world that actually invite us places and care about us. Last weekend was our 16th anniversary. A client of ours in our cleaning business (and we're friends as well) just happened to invite us to go to an away basketball game for our local team. The had two extra tickets and asked if we wanted to go. Sure! Oh, and they would drive, so we could ride with them. Okay! Oh, and they already had an AirBnb with a separate cottage out back and we could just have that room to ourselves, for free of course. WOW! The only thing we had to pay for was our food, and once we got there the husband paid for all of our meals!!! I couldn't even get an invitation to dinner with other people as a JW and here we get a free three day weekend trip for my wife and I. Tell me again how Witnesses are such great friends.

JW's are just friends of convenience. You're in the same place so you might as well make the best of the time you spend together. You have a similar life in the religion. That's it. They do nothing to foster a sense of community or togetherness. Instead it is backbiting like you mentioned in the OP. Just a bunch of judgmental people trying to one up each other.

33

Almost three months since Crisis of Conscience Cease and Desist

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

i am very interested in getting crisis of conscience being fully available as soon as possible.

march 12th will mark exactly three months since the cease-and-desist letter was written.. i understand that things are slow and that deborah may be sick, but i was just wondering if anyone knew the status.

i have been asked twice already where the book can be obtained in spanish and i have told people that the book is not available.. there are ways to make ebooks extremely hard to share.

dubstepped

People have wanted the book to be available for a long time, so I don't think there's a great lack of patience. I for one am grateful that it was made available on audio as it was instrumental in helping me cut through the crap of the JWs. Has there been any transparency on this process of getting the book out? Often a lack of patience is more just a lack of information. What's the deal? Can people do something to expedite the process? You mention a lack of funds. Is that the holdup? Are they separated from family because they're investing all of their time in the book or for reasons like all of us have? I don't know the story behind the story but this book is monumentally important.

38

A faded JW about to see the Circuit overseer

by pleaseresearch in

so my mum who is in and really is finding it hard that i have left and faded.

shes asked me if i want to the the circuit overseer next week.. i have never met him and this is more my mum wanting me to get my problems i have with the organisation out.

but should i share everything i've learnt or what?.

dubstepped

Looks like your week just got busy, you came down with the flu, and depression is keeping you down. You have nothing to gain and everything to lose here. Make an excuse and do not meet with them. If you somehow find yourself in their presence, do not tip your hand or you'll be labeled an apostate and disfellowshipped. Run from this "opportunity".

375

This thread is for proof that God exists

by juandefiero in

jw
friends

however, i haven't found any evidence to support that belief.. have you?

if so please, show me the evidence that god exists, and i will believe along with you.. criteria:.

(1) you must specify which god you are talking about;.

dubstepped

So let's say that someone here wants to start a thread about Lazarus or Jesus or Superman (who from what I understand died and was resurrected). They believe in it and want to discuss it with others that believe it too. Why can they not get a pass? Why would someone need to go to that thread and tell them they're stupid? Do we all have to believe the same, or is it just that some people get off on putting the beliefs of others down?

I don't think you can hide behind this being a religious discussion forum when there are threads about lots of topics having nothing to do with religion. Some people want to discuss religion, some evolution, some circumcision, some a mixture of all three, whatever. And let's also not call all of the threads here "discussions" when it is more or less people that already have their mind up going at one another and not listening to the other.

But if they make statements of fact, like claiming somebody was raised from the dead, and if they claim their belief is based on evidence, then that evidence should be challenged. Statements of fact don't get a free-pass because they are labelled as "religious".

Why are you the fact police? Why do you think anyone cares what you have to say in the first place? They don't owe you anything. Why do they have to admit to you that their beliefs are just that, "beliefs"? Does that somehow make you feel better? Do you get off on belittling others and making trying to make them feel bad about their ignorance? I don't get it. Are you simply on a quest to cure ignorance and create a society that sees everything like you do and admits that the evidence supports you view? If they don't, which seems to happen often on here, what's the point? Who did you help? Where's the payoff?

And again, "you" in this instance doesn't just mean cofty. I believe in a God at this point in my life. You won't change that. This thread won't change that. You see things only in terms of man's discoveries of the physical realm around us and I think that there is more to life than that, something bigger going on that man can't measure with instruments. So what's the point of trying to convince me otherwise? You will fail. You're wasting your time and mine. That's why I chimed in early on and then exited this thread. I don't need to prove anything to you because my beliefs are mine and don't need your approval.

I've seen you personally post several times that you could prove the nonexistence of the Christian God. I asked you to do so and you never did. I also asked you the question about love and whether you or anyone else could prove its existence, which nobody can do conclusively, yet we as humans believe in the power of it. No progress was made on either front.

So, once again, this discussion is pointless and the only value truly produced is to those that are looking for something internally out of these discussions. Nobody is changing their mind. It is a futile discussion for most. Maybe someone out there takes something away from it. And, since I'm not, it was probably a mistake to jump back in this. I really don't care enough to argue with people for nothing.

375

This thread is for proof that God exists

by juandefiero in

jw
friends

however, i haven't found any evidence to support that belief.. have you?

if so please, show me the evidence that god exists, and i will believe along with you.. criteria:.

(1) you must specify which god you are talking about;.

dubstepped

It shouldn't get a free pass.

Why do people need a pass from other people? If I believe that kittens will one day rule the world (and they should), and I want to open a thread here and discuss it with other people that agree, why do I need to get a pass from you or anyone else? Why do you feel a need to go in and tell those people that they're stupid for thinking that is a reality just because you don't? So long as the kitty krew isn't hurting you or I, let them have their world.

I don't direct that at any one person just because I quoted it from cofty. It just seems like a segment of people now are so concerned that others might have a view that is different, or wrong from another person's point of view or even from hard evidence, so it must therefore be destroyed and that person should be shamed for thinking like they do. Why? Not everything in life is stated in order to be a debate that one person has to win and another has to lose. Sometimes people want to discuss a world view that is theirs and that they share with others without having others come into that conversation just to tell them that they're idiots when those people aren't hurting anyone.

With that said, I realize that religion or belief in God has hurt many on here and has been a scourge upon the planet and humanity. I get it. However, if some have a view that God exists, they don't need a pass from you or me or anyone else. They get to decide that for themselves. If it works for them in some way, who cares. Maybe a current set of beliefs is just a segue to more "correct" beliefs later and they're on their journey. Why must others interrupt and try to hasten that journey? Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still, so it is just a waste of time to be a blowhard that attacks the perceived errors in the thoughts and feelings and ideologies of others, unless of course the real goal is to inflate one's own ego.

5

For the struggling faders and control freaks

by dubstepped in

jw
friends

i see people struggling with maintaining control over their reactions to their witness relatives and something struck me that i'd like to share.

as a jw you're taught that you should have unlimited self-control.

article after article, talk after talk, about controlling your impure thoughts, feelings, music, movies, speech, actions, literally everything a human could struggle with.

dubstepped

I see people struggling with maintaining control over their reactions to their Witness relatives and something struck me that I'd like to share. As a JW you're taught that you should have unlimited self-control. Article after article, talk after talk, about controlling your impure thoughts, feelings, music, movies, speech, actions, literally everything a human could struggle with. I once had a talk with a brother about this very thing. If we could control all of these things then what's the point of Jesus' death, as we could potentially reach perfection ourselves.

So, when you're struggling to deal with your relatives, realize that self-control is finite and we don't get to pick and choose our weaknesses. Also realize that some things that are viewed as healthy and necessary can be toxic to you and not someone else. It is generally accepted that family is necessary, particularly a relationship with your parents. So many people fade so as to keep family bonds. But some families are toxic. Peanuts are a little thing, generally accepted as healthy and enjoyed by many, unless of course you're allergic to them in which case they could kill you.

So check your fade and see if it is just keeping something toxic in your life. You can look at the affect that being around those people has on you. Are you wasting time and emotional energy on vampires that are sucking you dry, like eating peanuts and thinking you won't be allergic this time because you were brought up to think you could control everything? Or is it maybe the case that the problem isn't you so it isn't yours to control? Those people could be toxic to you because, well, they are toxic. You can't fix that.

I just wanted to post this to let some of you off the hook. You can't control everything, externally (your family) or internally (your reactions to them). The old adage that the only thing you can control is your reaction to something is crap. Tell that to those allergic to peanuts. Do your best but don't be afraid to admit that something, or someone, is simply toxic and harmful to you and take care of yourself first. When the plane goes down you put the mask on yourself first, not someone else. You can't help anyone from a weak and sick position because you're sticking out a fade to somehow make toxic people to you something healthy. There's a time to walk away and admit that you're simply allergic to them.

34

Fade Fail: Not as Easy as I'd Like

by Hadriel in

this has been tough.

very tough actually.

because i'm so integrated into things including certain tasks which i can't say as it would be a dead giveaway i find myself constantly bombarded by things.. i'm literally a lying every day.

dubstepped

Sorry man, it's tough. I couldn't keep my mouth shut forever and tipped my hand several times as to my feelings on things. It became a fire in my bones, or whatever Jeremiah said, and it burned me up. I couldn't hold it in anymore. That's just how I'm wired though, but for a long time it was so tough to keep things pent up inside. It honestly wasn't healthy for me. Still, I was able to bide time until I was ready to leave for sure along with my wife.

You're right in that they aren't bad at their core. However, many people that do really horrible things to other human beings may not be bad at their core. They still hurt others though, and at a point it isn't a matter of good or bad but rather healthy or toxic. I was so happy to leave the toxic environments and the toxic people behind when I DA'd. It was so freeing. We all take our own time for moving on however we choose, whether fading or DA'ing or whatever. In the end though, really good people can be really toxic for us. It hurts a lot, and I can see you hurting. I'm sorry. It is so hard to be inauthentic, and I couldn't keep it up for long. I've never been good at acting.

27

I dont know how i can leave my family!

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

my mom and i were talking today about how next summer i will be 18 and she said that just thinking about it might make her cry.

that made me think about how much more it would hurt her if i quit being a jw.

i really do love my parents, i know they are just being cruelly manipulated by a cult and that they really think they are doing what is best for me.

dubstepped

You can't live your life for others. It simply isn't possible, and you'll end up with health problems if you try to be someone that you aren't, whether physically or mentally you'll suffer one way or both. Change in life is inevitable, but for now you're just a kid and you just need to worry about today. Don't worry about tomorrow or what those changes will be. In the end, you can't control life. You can do your best and live it as who you are, but you can't control what your parents or anyone else thinks or feels or how they react.

So, for today things are good with you and your parents. Appreciate it. Take what love you get from them now and try to be present mentally when you're with them. When and if the time comes that you need to make changes you'll do so then. No amount of worrying about it today changes what happens in the future. You'll be a different person then, with different coping skills and goals in life. Your parents may be too. All that you're guaranteed is this moment, right now, so have gratitude for what you have and don't worry about what you might not have later. For now, you have them.

This is coming from a guy that lost his family due to leaving the religion. It does hurt, but I can look back and know that I did everything I possibly could to make things work, to enjoy the time that I had, and I have peace even in the great divide between us now because I didn't leave anything undone and I did my best to appreciate what I had and make it better. In the end, any relationship takes two people, and while I'm still open to a relationship they aren't, and that's on them. I have peace in that I acted right on my end. They have to live with theirs. It isn't my problem. Love isn't control. It take a lot more love to have a relationship with someone that you don't agree with everything on and that you may not even always like than it does to love someone that is just a little robot that does what you say and obeys. My love isn't so small that it can't survive a religious disagreement. My parents' love is that small. That makes them toxic, and people that ultimately I know it is best for me to be separated from anyway.

10

I can't just walk away, I need to keep reinforcing what I did was right (Leaving the org)

by pleaseresearch in

when i speak to my mum about things, she says why do you keep looking on the internet and news etc... why don't you just live your life and forget what you learned growing up.. maybe i was so so indoctrinated as a child that even though i have woken up and learnt ttatt, i still need to keep up to date with new findings from ex and fellow brothers and sisters.

listening to their testimony about why they left.. this was to me and all of you i'm sure, the truth.

so to finally wake up is absolutely massive.

dubstepped

Why don't you just forget it and move on is a very ignorant recommendation. It sounds nice, but you can't just put a cult that you were a part of down like it never existed. An illustration that I like is that leaving a cult is like putting a photo on your computer in the recycle bin and deleting it. That photo isn't no longer there. It will be written over, bit by bit, over a long time, and is easily recoverable. It never really goes away.

Or think of any childhood abuse. You will have those scars with you the rest of your life. They don't just magically disappear.

We're also hurt and have no real recourse against the Borg. It forever remains unfinished business on some level.

The fact that it is harder for some to walk away shows that some took it more serious. I certainly took "the truth" very seriously and tried so hard to make it work for years, even through my doubts. So a person that wanted it so badly can't just walk away like it never happened. Grief takes time and is a process, and I can no more just forget about this than I can loved ones that I lost in death or that are still in the organization.

9

What if your mother tried to cut her heart out?

by dubstepped in

jw
friends

this is the title of the latest episode of a podcast called "this is actually happening".

i love the podcast and imagine my surprise when this title came up.

imagine the surprise when i realized this was about jehovah's witnesses.

dubstepped

Sorry to hear you're housebound. Just FYI, these are audio only. If you want some audio recommendations though I listen to find of interesting podcasts every day while I work. I can PM you a list sometime if you'd benefit.