Posts by dubstepped

6

Do you think the JW organization breed narcissistic personality?

by James Mixon in

why not, the organization is never wrong, therefore if you are part of the organization.

you are never wrong.

if there's a problem it's satan, not the brothers.

dubstepped

YES!

Obviously, people with true narcissistic personality disorders that could be diagnosed according to the DSM are something else, but the organization definitely attracts narcissists and breeds narcissistic characteristics. I've seen it in my own family, and in myself before I started to get healthy.

It attracts narcissists because narcissists love things to be black and white, right or wrong. They love to be correct (i.e. have "The Truth") and for a true narcissist it is in their wheelhouse to manipulate situations or words to make sure that you are wrong. It is all about ego, keeping up appearances, standing out above the fray. Does any of this sound familiar?

Additionally, for narcissists people are seen as objects, not as human beings with their own thoughts and feelings. As everything in life comes down to an intellectual right or wrong as they see it, your feelings are totally expendable. The governing body makes lots of decisions that destroy the lives of others and they do it simply on a feeling of what is right or wrong in their view, not about the effect that has on others, as brought out in Franz's books. If you don't like what your brother or sister does, shun them. Boom, they're gone, it's that easy. I was always amazed at the ease with which I could get rid of people in my life, and I know where a lot of it came from. I constantly watched people come and go, and you get conditioned to it. They aren't people with lives and families and feelings, they're just objects that were here yesterday, and today they aren't. No worries, they'll be replaced. We'll just go find another one. Field service is a great time to pick out your new system home. Sure, people live their currently and have to be eliminated, but it's all for the best so whatever, one of us gets their house. There is no love in narcissism, just rules to be upheld and someone has to be right, which makes someone else dead wrong.

I've done a lot of looking into the disorder, into narcissistic families (I highly recommend a book called "The Narcissistic Family : Diagnosis and Treatment"), and so many things hit home that I saw in the organization. I also feel bad about the way that I saw people in the past, though it was understandable from my upbringing in the organization, and by two narcissists who came by it before contact with JW's.

28

Ray Franz and You.

by John Aquila in

if ray franz would have kept his mouth shut and not disfellowshipped, and remained part of the governing body how many of us ex-jw would still be trapped in the cult?.

would we have come this far?.

dubstepped

Ray didn't move me to wake up, but his books sure confirmed a lot of what I saw. He also added enough extra to make me overcome the brainwashing and break free emotionally. I saw a signature on another forum that said " I planted, apostates watered, but Google made it grow". In my case I could say "I planted, online apostates watered, but Ray Franz made me go". He helped me decide to leave once and for all time. I may have got there on my own, but not at fast.

323

Question and answers for fisherperson regardingy time at bethel

by _Morpheus in

so fisherperson sent me a pm asking a bunch of questions re my time at beth hell.

rather than respond in a pm i will post the q/a here as i have nothing to hide.

q:what years did you serve in brooklyn bethel?

dubstepped

Man, this thread delivers. I've learned a lot about Bethel life. The only young brothers I knew that went were either those with really sincere hearts or those that were the biggest jerks (or dick heads as fisherman is fond of) that I've ever known. They were polar opposites.

Just to weigh in on pm-gate, I do think that revealing pm's isn't cool, but in this case fishermen was obviously baiting you and questioning your legitimacy as he seems to others that made Bethel claims. I'll tell you what, fisherman trolled this time and caught him a big one. Truly a master baiter, that fisherperson. It has certainly added entertainment to the educational opportunity of this thread.

41

July 19th Watchtower Summary. Insanity

by Lemonp in

just got back from the wt study and it overall was just so blindingly biased and leading.. i had to read it from the platform too, i hope they couldn't see the confounded look on my face as i read this craziness out!.

first we consider the faith of abel, enoch, noah, abraham, isaac and jacob, and moses.. all of these people are held up as sterling examples of blind faith, with the article pointedly saying that their imaginations sustained their faith in gods promises for them.

no mention anywhere at all that all of these characters saw and talked to angels, spoke to god himself, saw and performed miracles, or any of the other feats experienced by these characters.

dubstepped

Hey lemonparty, if you disliked the study article (and I liked your take), you'll appreciate this article about it too:

http://meletivivlon.com/2015/07/14/wt-study-they-saw-the-things-promised/

29

To DA or not to DA, that is the question?

by dubstepped in

let me preface this by saying that i don't expect anyone here to make my decision for me.

i do however note that like the bible says, in the multitude of counselors there is wisdom, and this is a huge decision, so i wanted to put it out there for discussion.

i really appreciate your words of wisdom, as this affects not just me but my wife also, as we find ourselves in the same boat.

dubstepped

Well, I'm going to see my DA'ed friend here soon and reached out and set something up with him. That feels really good. Haven't seen him in over a decade, and never met his family. I'm really excited about it. We've messaged some on Facebook and it is like old times before things got so complicated.

As for me, I think I'm being helped to see through your posts that I had one part of the fading down but lacked the other. I have effectively faded from the minds of the people I knew, but they and the organizational hold hasn't faded from MY mind. That's going to be a struggle for me because my memory is really good. Like, REALLY good, lol. There are so many things in life I wish I could forget but I just can't, but with time they eventually fade from my consciousness. I may never forget all of this and really leave it behind, but I can move on and with time those things and the worries that accompany them will fade away into the background. I look forward to that time. I appreciate you hammering home the points that I needed to put things into perspective.

FayeDunaway said:Live your life without fear. Putting birthday candles in your shopping cart at the grocery store, don't try to hide them. Instead of thinking 'oh what if a witness sees me' think 'if a witness sees me, who cares. I get to do this and they don't, because they're still mentally trapped but I'm free.'

I needed this post. It really helped make it all real and puts the focus on the freedom, on what I get to do, and the prison that they are still stuck in. Thank you for this post. It just really hit me for whatever reason.

29

To DA or not to DA, that is the question?

by dubstepped in

let me preface this by saying that i don't expect anyone here to make my decision for me.

i do however note that like the bible says, in the multitude of counselors there is wisdom, and this is a huge decision, so i wanted to put it out there for discussion.

i really appreciate your words of wisdom, as this affects not just me but my wife also, as we find ourselves in the same boat.

dubstepped

Thanks everybody so far. You've given me a lot to think about. Seems that fading is the option of choice for most. I think there's something inside me that wants to be heard, that wants to put a bow on all of this, and to control it from my end. Waiting for possible action by the congregation or having to hide certain associates or celebrating a birthday, or knowing that if we took blood we would be DA anyway makes me just want to put a bullet in it and get it over with. I can see the possibility of being free anyway as things are, but I guess they occupy space in my mind that I'm not quite sure how to let go of just yet. I'm a bit OCD about some things and this one is hard to let go of.

19

"God by the Neck" short film

by wolfman85 in

forum
links

now you can see the full short movie online.

storyline: its sunday, and pablo, 8 years old, has an invitation to a very special but also forbidden birthday party.

its sunday, and for the first time, pablo is going on a door-to-door preaching with his mother.

dubstepped

Wow, watched it with my wife. Very powerful, thinking about how kids at affected. It was very well done. I loved how small the kid looks when the doors open, as it shows how intimidating that aspect must be for them. I remember going through much of that as a kid, but haven't really revisited it as an adult and looked at it anew. Thanks for posting it.

29

To DA or not to DA, that is the question?

by dubstepped in

let me preface this by saying that i don't expect anyone here to make my decision for me.

i do however note that like the bible says, in the multitude of counselors there is wisdom, and this is a huge decision, so i wanted to put it out there for discussion.

i really appreciate your words of wisdom, as this affects not just me but my wife also, as we find ourselves in the same boat.

dubstepped

Let me preface this by saying that I don't expect anyone here to make my decision for me. I do however note that like the Bible says, in the multitude of counselors there is wisdom, and this is a huge decision, so I wanted to put it out there for discussion. I really appreciate your words of wisdom, as this affects not just me but my wife also, as we find ourselves in the same boat. We're blessed to have opened our eyes at nearly the same time, me first, and her not too far thereafter.

I'll just post some highlights below of our situation for your consideration. I'm certainly willing to answer any questions that you may have.

Reasons FOR DA:

I honestly can't say that I'm a JW anymore. I don't identify with them and instead of being proud of the label, it brings me some measure of shame due to the lack of love in the organization in favor of rules. Too many people have been and are hurt.
As I can't claim the name anymore, I'm also not doing the witnessing work. Why would I invite people to come get immersed in something that I can no longer support myself?
Every time I hear a car door or get a phone call I am worried that it is an elder wanting to talk to me. Granted, that concern is presently unfounded (see AGAINST list below).
Every time we go to a store we are worried that we're going to run into a brother or sister and have to have awkward conversations and pretend to be something we're not.
I had no real friends in the organization anyway. I've faded and nobody ever reached out to me. Their love knows no bounds, except for the four walls of the Kingdom Hall, of course.
My family, and my wife's family, has both shunned us anyway at this point. So we have no real ties anymore to anyone in the organization.
I have no plans of ever going back and neither does my wife. You can't un-ring a bell. After opening our eyes, we cannot close them again. We can't shrink our perspective back to the narrow minded box that it once was kept within.
DA'ing would feel like we're truly free. I love Ray Franz's book "In Search Of Christian Freedom". I'm still a believer. I still love Jehovah. I just don't want all of how that goes down to be dictated to me anymore. My wife and I want to be free to exercise our own consciences as respects certain things. I have a DA'ed friend that reached out to me years ago that I want to associate with freely. We want to be free to take a blood transfusion as we do not agree with the doctrine in good conscience. And birthdays, come on, how absurd is the ban on that? We don't want to abandon everything, but we want the freedom to no longer live with our consciences dictated to us.

Reasons AGAINST DA:

We currently have a successful fade going on. It's been over the course of years, but at least a year now completely free. Only one sister ever reaches out at all. No elders have ever called and nobody cares. We've effectively disappeared. We haven't even gotten a "Return To Jehovah" brochure from anyone. No family, friends, elders, or anyone else.
I feel that DA'ing puts up a wall, another barrier that prevents family from waking up and reaching out to us. As of now, they could more easily reason that they could talk to us. If we DA they really face a whole other level of difficulty in reaching out. Let it be known though for reasons of transparency that none of them ever reached out to us anyway. Our families were both quite dysfunctional and we were never close. I've always held out hope that someday we could be (eternal optimist) while my wife just gave up hope. We did have some measure of relationships with them, but 99% of the time it was because we initiated the contact.
Although I don't see us ever going back, I'm not arrogant enough to say that it could never happen. Heck, I never thought I'd be here where I am today. I've made massive changes in my life over the years in many ways, as has my wife. So, just in case I should ever change my mind or the organization should do an about face on many things that I currently can't get with, I don't want that added layer of trouble to go through to ever be reinstated. Why subject myself to that possibility unnecessarily?
My guess is that when announced at the Hall we'll just "no longer be Jehovah's Witnesses" in a typical announcement that doesn't show that we made this choice. This isn't like they disfellowshipped us, and to me that matters. I want it known that it was our choice entirely to leave. I don't want people to think that we did something morally wrong or to look down on us any more than they will already. Having people shun us currently sucks, but amping that up a level seems like it would suck more.
Freedom always comes with a price. Being free to do some things and associate freely with some people also puts 8 million or so out of bounds for us aside from our family who has already shunned us.

I'll chime in if I think of anything else. If I had to break it down simply, we want to DA to be free of an organization that hangs over our head in all things. However, we know that comes with a price, some of which we've already paid, but an uncertain price as well.

Thanks for your time and attention. I may not agree with everything here or everyone, but it sure is beautiful that we all get to have the freedom to be who we are.

5

Example of Jehovah's Witness hare speech!

by username in

i have just been looking to see if there is a post on the guardian newspaper report on here but couldn't find, if there is please move this if you so wish mods.

anyway i have just had a look over at one of the pro jw sites and found this comment.

this comment is due to the many comments that have been generated under the guardian report.. as usual, avoid the comments.

dubstepped

Ha-ha, I know where you got that. Saw it yesterday. They're probably out in service this morning picking out which people will be killed so they can have their house in the new system.

By the way, while you're there, check out the thread on a 50's themed party in their off topic board. It is magical. Apparently costume parties where one dresses as the opposite sex turns men into homosexuals and those that hide their identity in costumes are sexual predators. Those people are delusional. Enjoy.

14

I Was Told That The Elders Have Not Gone After Me Because They Hope I Will Return!

by minimus in

the elders told my mom they obviously could have come after me but are holding hope that i will return to jehovah and be reunited to the congregation.. isnt that nice?.

dubstepped

Just out of curiosity, why were they talking about you? Was she trying to get them to go after you to punish you? I ask because I have parents like that. Or was she just upset about your status and they were comforting her? Hopefully it is closer to the latter. If the former, my heart goes out to you.