ARoarer

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Posts by ARoarer

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  41

  THE ELDERS JUST CALLED US, NEED HELP

  by ARoarer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the elders just called us.

  one called and another one got on the phone first to ask if my husband would meet with them.

  my husband told them he had nothing to say, and if they are going to make any announcement from the platform that slanders our name in any way we will sue them personally, and if we do meet with them we would only do it if our lawyers come and to tell jr brown and mario marino to come also.

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  ARoarer

  The elders just called us. One called and another one got on the phone first to ask if my husband would meet with them. My husband told them he had nothing to say, and if they are going to make any announcement from the platform that slanders our name in any way we will sue them personally, and if we do meet with them we would only do it if our lawyers come and to tell JR BRown and Mario Marino to come also. I got on the phone and told the one elder that our family are good and we have done nothing wrong and we have always been better friends to them than they ever were to us and that we have always been very kind and compassionate with them, so how can they come and attack our family again. They have my adrenalin going right now. My question is can anyone here on the board fax me a copy of a form letter about legally holding them responsible if they make any announcement from the platform? My printer doesn't work. I would appreciate any advice. Thanks
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  8

  Mickey Mouse & Santa Claus & JWs

  by ARoarer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok everyone, i have had this on my mind since i decided to celebrate christmas this year for the first time since i became a jw at 19. i stopped because i was taught it was "pagan" and "idolatrous", and now on thinking clearly and with no jw's clouding my thoughts at meetings, i have reasoned personally, yes, jws will say that christmas is pagan and santa claus is a pagan lie to children.

  and christmas is so commercialized and materialism is at it's finest.

  yet when i think critically with powers of reasoning i see that though jws don't celebrate christmas, they love to go to disney world.

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  ARoarer

  Ok everyone, I have had this on my mind since I decided to celebrate Christmas this year for the first time since I became a JW at 19. I stopped because I was taught it was "Pagan" and "Idolatrous", and now on thinking clearly and with no JW's clouding my thoughts at meetings, I have reasoned personally, yes, JWs will say that Christmas is pagan and Santa Claus is a pagan lie to children. And Christmas is so commercialized and materialism is at it's finest. Yet when I think critically with powers of reasoning I see that though JWs don't celebrate Christmas, they love to go to Disney World. At least the ones that I know do. So my question is what is the difference between Mickey Mouse and Santa Claus. Don't JWs do the same thing when they take the kids to Disney and put the little ones on Mickeys lap to sign their autographs, and give them hugs, and believe that this is Really Mickey Mouse? Why don't they tell the little ones not to believe in Mickey, he's really a pagan man dressed up in a Mickey Mouse costume just like Santa Claus. Is this a double standard or what?
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  9

  I Know Christmas is Over this year BUT......

  by Adonai438 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  should it be a holiday for christians to celebrate?

  christians do not refuse to honor jesus just because of pagan roots, since these pagan roots have no.

  the church did not choose december 25th because it was an ancient heathen holiday, but.

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  ARoarer

  Adonai...that was excellent! That was the same information that our family went with in finally breaking the WT spell and celebrating Christmas for the first time this year. I had always missed it terribly from the time I became a JW at 19. I am the only one in my family who once celebrated. My hubby and children never did till this year. I wish all JWs knew this information. They don't know what they have missed out on. Yes I know they use the excuse that it's too commercialized and too much of a money making thing, but so is Disney World, but most JW's I know, go crazy to be there with Mickey Mouse. And for that matter what is the difference in taking your child to sit on Mickey's lap and sitting on Santa's lap? Mickey is "pagan" isn't he????
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  42

  Phone Call From My Mother!

  by Ranchette in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the last time i spoke with my mom was the middle of october.

  i called her that time.. many of you are familiar with the relationship problems ive had with my parents since i quit going to meetings almost a year ago.

  for those of you who arent familiar with the situation, you can do a search by clicking on the paper icon under my name to read up on whats been going on.. anyway things were getting worse and worse and nothing good was coming from our discussions or letters.. since i was the one who called her last, i decided to see how long it would take for my parents to get a hold of me the next time.. my mom even told me in the past that she wanted to limit her association with me.

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  ARoarer

  Greetings Ranchette,
  I have read all the posts here and knowing your situation, a agree with much of what everyone has said. Ranchie, Your mother has no sense at all that she is acting in such a dispicable way. Jehovah's Witnesses are impressed upon repeatedly at the meetings to hate. That emotion permeates everything and everyone that is part of their lives and in making thier future decisions. So many here on this board, have been through some form of this. You know, when I became a JW at 19, my mother could have treated me in the same manner. Our relationship was not great for many reasons, but she never showed such cruel treatment as yours and many other mothers in the "truth" have torwards their own children. She and my unbelieving relatives showed tolerance, and for the most part respected all those years of me being a JW. But it is different the other way around. Witness family members will try to emotionally annhilate you if you don't come back to the cult. This is so abusive and perpetrative, and the tactics are quite literally the same tactics of a true child abuser. Though it may not be in a sexual sense, the controls for the emotional perpetration are identical. Shame blame, threats of abandonment, guilt, and often violent talk or actions. Perpetration of another human to this extent is morally and humanly wrong. Yet, as in my own situation, it seems to be easier to cut off ties with the abusers if they are of sexual nature, however, what your mother is doing to you is just as damaging in many of the same ways. But it is harder to break the tie when you are not literally abused in a sexual way. It is really the same in the way WT abuses. You know Ranch, when we cut ties with my mother and father-in-law for what he did to our child, they acted identicle to what you mom is doing. Even at family gatherings, the unbelieving relatives would ask them why we did not go, and they would act like the victim by telling them "we were mad at them and holding a grudge, and not forgiving", yet they witheld the fact of why we were not in a relationship with them. And then when we finally told the relatives what he had done, my in-laws were furious that we did not "play there game of secrecy". They will keep up that facade at all costs. You can expect your mother to begin to trash your reputation with the non-believing relatives, the same way they do at the kingdom hall to the members. Your mother will make up little lies or half truths to keep you from gaining a close relationship with her unbelieving relatives. She will imply to them that You have don something terribly wrong, and there may be some who are very co-dependent of her who will acutually buy her bullshit. Every time you return her call and allow her to engage youself in her act of latest abuse, you will be the one left hurting, because a perpetrator in any form does not believe they are really perpetrating because the denial is so strong. And when a perpetrator uses a religious belief that they have God backing thier action, than there is really no hope of repairing any kind of a relationship. I have lived this. Believe me, Ranchette. To this day, in my own circumstances, the family members of mine who are still Jehovah's Witnesses, and actually themselves victims of my father-in-law, believe they must shun me and my family, rather than the pedophile who is one of them. These are actual victims. The JW pull is so powerful you will be pulled back in to take new blows from them until you see that they will never view you as having goodness if you are not one of them. This is because they have been subliminally taught over and over again to literally hate you to death. This is what has happened to me and my children and husband and it will happen to you and especially now that the sexual abuse issue is at the core of what you have chosen to do by going along with the braveness of your husband. Be Well Ranchette and keep in touch. You are a strong lady, and you and your family will get through this.

  Love, Aroarer
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  60

  Cross or Stake, which is biblically true??

  by butalbee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  can somebody please explain to me biblically where it says jesus died on a stake and not a cross?

  need theological details, please.

  prove your stakely beliefs...

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  ARoarer

  
  Sorry everyone for the messup in the above post. I had trouble and almost lost it.
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  60

  Cross or Stake, which is biblically true??

  by butalbee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  can somebody please explain to me biblically where it says jesus died on a stake and not a cross?

  need theological details, please.

  prove your stakely beliefs...

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  ARoarer

  William Penwell thats awesome information. Thankyou for the research. I love reading about, and also watching documentaries about Biblical History. For me, it is not as significant in my own worship, wheather or not Christ died on the cross or the "steak" but rather, that the meaning of his birth, death, and ressurrection, and honoring each one and keeping it special within my family. Last year was the first time we chose not to go to the "Memorial". Instead, we wanted to have a quiet dinner at home, with the unleavened bread and an excellent bottle of wine. My neighbor who is an elderly Jewish lady in a wheelchair, was very depressed because her daughter who was away would not be reading the Sadah during her passover celebration. She had never in her 76 years missed this celebrational reading of the Sadah. My husband agreed to to it with her and her Brazilian caregiver. I prepared her traditional meal of the unleavened bread, the bitter herbs and other ingredients, and we sat at dinner that sundown with her and my husband read the Sadah which is the account of the Israelites and the first passover. It was so beautiful to listen to it and my 15 year old daughter was very moved. After we had some Matzos and sipped the Wine and ate the bitter herbs and apples, and egg, we had dinner, and my husband then read the account of the Last Supper and we talked about the meaning of it and it's relation to her celebration. It was the most meaningful "Memorial" celebration as we read together with my husband parts of her Sadah, and she with her Brazilian girl, who is Christian also, read Scriptures with us in the Last Supper account. Again we sipped the wine and ate the matzos. She was so happy and it gave me and my family a rich and memorable celebration of what this Holy week was all about. It felt good not to be sitting at another overpacked overdressed kingdom hall where everyone is expected to reject the wine and unleavened bread, as if Chirst's death meant nothing for them. I look forward to new traditions in my family and new beginnings of recapturing our minds our hearts and most of all our spirits that being in this cult took away from us all those years. Again, thank you for your research.----------------------------------------------------------------------PlmkrzyQUOTE - "So what you are saying is you don't believe that Jesus is Christ that's fine"---------------------------------------------------------------------I don't believe I ever said that in my posts, that must be your own interpretation ----------------------------------------------------------------------QUOTE - "I don't know why you keep insisting my information is from the WT and not the Bible"----------------------------------------------------------------------Plmkrzy, I don't believe I ever said that in my posts, that must be your own misconception of what I said.----------------------------------------------------------------------QUOTE - "I get all my information from various different Bibles, and I seriously doubt that you have read any"----------------------------------------------------------------------Plmkrzy - I commend you that you read the Bible in many translations. I do, however, think that your comment is judgmental and abit sarcastic and mean spirited. My own faith is based on my own personal research of other translations of the Bibleand how I apply the principals that Christ taught. Thoughmy faith may differ from yours or others, should not cause me to show intolerance. I am still evolving after being a devout JW for over 30 years. I am still researching, sort-ing old beliefs and misconceptions, retaining some and alsodisgarding others. It has not been easy but I and my familyhave come out of this intact, and now are redefining our selves. That is what this process is all about, udoing thehold WT had on us and learning to try and trust again. You have never walked in my shoes nor I yours, and I do not know if you are a JW in or out or not, but you are here onthis board, and I respect that. So Peace !!
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  30

  AlanF et al, a little help please! Pronto Please!

  by SixofNine in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i finally got that shepherding call.

  1.5 years after not attending meetings, lol.. i'm sorry guys, but i was just disgustingly forthright.

  i basically said that 1.5 years ago, i researched and came to the conclusion that the societies blood ban was wrong.

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  ARoarer

  Path, thanks for the info. I had also heard that they can make an announcement from the platform by saying so and so have da'd themselves by thier actions. Can this happen without them coming directly to me?
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  43

  Mother, wife, myself, DA'ing ourselves

  by ashitaka in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, i've finally had it.

  i'm da'ing myself, along with a piece of my fam.

  the unbaptised ones are refusing to go with my father now, and even my still devout father is leaning towards our opinion on things.. there wasn't even any screaming when i called the jw's the great hypocrisy last nite.. i just can allow myself to be associated with them in any way.

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  ARoarer

  Ashi
  You and your family are coming out of the cult as an intact family. That is wonderful. If you ever need support you are welcome, and I and my husband and children will be their for you and your bride, and your mom.
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  60

  Cross or Stake, which is biblically true??

  by butalbee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  can somebody please explain to me biblically where it says jesus died on a stake and not a cross?

  need theological details, please.

  prove your stakely beliefs...

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  ARoarer

  plmkrzy, Abraham, the israelites, practiced the same blood sacrifices to appease their god, the way many other pagans sacrificed humans and animals to appease thier gods. History proves that. The Ancent Mayans for example believed that they had to do this to satisfy thier god's anger at their sins, that the rains would come and nourish thier crops. Blood sacrifices of humans and animals was a barbarian religious belief to satisfy the gods of the humans worshipping. These ancient practices were obviously incorporated in the Israelites worship and how they "imperfectly" interpreted and wrote the Bible. God's Law according the the Bible was to love oneanother, and not to kill. Jesus himself said that. Humans just never could perfectly obey God's Laws without incorporating thier own views of what they thought he wanted of them. I know the Bible very well, I no longer believe the Watchtower's view of the way it was written. I also don't believe the "glorious ones" spoken of in the NWT should be applied to elders representing the leaders of the WTS. Here they have spoken abusively of angels by equating themselves to them in Jude. The glorious ones were angels not elders as the Watchtower has them believe. Here again is humans incorporating their own interpretations to satisfy what they want to believe. It is the same with the cross. The Watchtower, again, has distorted the Bible teaching of the cross with it's own interpretation. I believe if the civil laws allowed them to get away with it, they would probably put to death all who they believe is apostate, and think they were killing to appease their Watchtower God. Getting back to blood animal sacreifices, there are Satanic groups today that still practice this in belief it appeases their god Satan. Some even abduct little children to do this abhorrent act of worship. There is even a religious group who claim being "Christian" who make blood sacrifices of animals. They are "Santa Ria". I don't know much about them and don't care to know, other than what I have watched on the News. But, again, in a civilized society, cutting up animals, children, or young virgins is disgusting. Just as it was disgusting what was done to Jesus. But he knew the imperfect people with thier imperfect ideas of worship, and illustrated his impending sacrifice in language they understood, when he told them his body and blood were pictured by the bread and wine. He did away with thier imperfect law of disgusting blood sacrifices that were so familiar to them, and practiced by ancient Israel the way other religions did. That is why when they sacrificed their children to the god Marduk in the fire, the Creator said it had never even come up into his heart that they should do such a thing. They would not have done something so horrendous to their children if they weren't already softened in their attitude to living sacrifices. Today, we as a civilized society we morally know better than the ancients. But their are some fanatical religions today who still believe they are pleasing their gods by doing so. I hope you are no still upset, I did not mean to rile you. I am just finally free to say what I believe even if it is not according to those who believe the Watchower view of things.
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  30

  AlanF et al, a little help please! Pronto Please!

  by SixofNine in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i finally got that shepherding call.

  1.5 years after not attending meetings, lol.. i'm sorry guys, but i was just disgustingly forthright.

  i basically said that 1.5 years ago, i researched and came to the conclusion that the societies blood ban was wrong.

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  ARoarer

  I and my family have not formerly DA'd ourselves, and no elders have called or asked to meet with us. But absolutely no one is talking to us, accept for a few close friends who keep it discreet. The word is out that we are "apostates" and I really don't know if they ever annonced anything from the platform without notifying us. Especially since I know now that they are aware we celebrated Christmas this year. Does anyone know if they can announce something without notifying us?