artful

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Posts by artful

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  2

  WT............Humble or Arrogant?

  by Smiles in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  many of us know all too well how the wt hierarchy portray themselves and the wt organization itself as exceptionally "humble.

  they often suggest that their "humility" helps to prove that they are, as a whole, the elite men of god.. the wt hierarchy is very dogmatic about the "humility" thing, to the point where openly doubting their great claims will harshly land you in the hot seat.. some of these wt statements are quoted below.

  after reading these wt quotes please tell us if you think these things prove the wt hierarchy to be humble or arrogant.

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  artful

  The Watchtower responds:
  "Those of us who were chosen by Christ as his faithful slave, are without a doubt the most humble group of men on earth today!"

  LOL
  Artful
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  26

  what to believe now?

  by christopherceo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is my first time posting here or on any ex-jw forum but i want to know if anybody else is not sure what to believe anymore.

  paradise on earth sounds great and it was drilled into me for 11 years, it's just kinda hard to shake.

  what about armageddon?

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  artful

  Welcome chris...hooberus summed it very well:

  The only thing I would ad to his comments is to read what the "atheists" think as well. Keep your mind open to all ideas. Assess them for yourself, and don't expect immediate answers to everything. READ everything that you think will help you in your search for your own spiritual identity. Keep in mind that this will not be easy...but nothing worthwhile ever is (as the saying goes).

  Also, a warning: The danger now is to look for someone else to provide you with a ready-made "belief system" or set of "truths". If you settle for this, it means that you have stopped looking for your own truth, and surrendered the most important part of yourself (your spiritual side) to the ideas that someone else developed for themselves.

  Happy searching...be patient
  Artful

  Edited by - artful on 14 January 2003 18:21:38
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  36

  "Bible Students" and 1919

  by artful in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a have a couple of questions pertaining to the wtbts and "bible students" from 1914-1919 and onward that i would appreciate receiving your feedback on:.

  1. does anyone know how many "bible students" (jehovah's witnesses) there were in 1919?

  i know that wtbts keeps such meticulous records of their "flock" now, but i have no access to material that covers that time period.

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  artful

  Danny: Thanks for your words of encouragment...I will keep searching. The search for 'truth' is really a journey that never ends, but then again, searching is really the fun part!

  Thank you to everyone for your comments on this thread!

  Hooberus and undercover raise a good point regarding 1919 - there is no scriptural basis for the appointment of a "faithful and discrete slave" (class or individuals) in 1919.

  Firstly, even if Christ did "return invisibly" in 1914, there is nothing in the slave parable (or anywhere else in the scriptures) to indicate that there would be numerous "potential slaves" for the "master" to choose ONE from - the WTS says that when Jesus inspected Christendom's various representatives they were found wanting, however, the WTBTS was found to be faithful.

  Secondly there is nothing in the slave parable (or anywhere else in the scriptures) to indicate that the "master" would wait a period of time to "observe" the slave (or other potential slave candidates) before deciding who to appoint.

  Having said that, the WTS really seems to be placing a lot of emphasis (by repeated mentions) on this (imaginary) 1919 appointment in both the book study and Watchtower materials over the past year or so. However, I'm not quite sure why they would want to move the emphasis away from Christ's return (1914) to this "appointment" (1919). Although, I suppose due to all of the internal turmoil, doctrine changes, and declines in membership taking place between 1914-1918 they would rather focus the dubs attention after this "testing" period. Any other ideas?

  Artful
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  11

  Who is this Ted Jaracz?

  by lv4fer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i keep seeing reference to him.

  i'm not sure who is he and what has he done?

  pardon me for my ingnorance in advance.

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  artful

  Tyler wrote: If you could fight anyone who would you fight?
  ...any historical figure?

  I'd fight "Judge" Rutherford...

  Cheers
  Artful aka "Jack's smirking revenge"
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  30

  who hated the memorial?

  by Tyler_Durden in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  was having a wee think to myself: this year is the first year in over a decade i won't be attending the jw memorial.

  not that i'm too bothered, i remembered how much i hated it, how pointless, dull, & stupid i found it!!.

  i could never understand the need for the great crowd to attend the annual meeting, it wasn't for us - & it certainly wasn't for our poor bible studies!

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  artful

  Hello there "Mr. Durden": Fight Club fan, eh? I must say, it is one of my favorite flicks!

  2002 was the first time since I was 5yrs old that I didn't attend the Memorial. I felt very much the same as you. It was nice to read the JW Memorial attendance in Canada (in the January WT) with one person less this year!!

  Cheers
  Artful
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  11

  Anyone help me on this

  by Iron Eagle in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hey folks .

  over the past couple of years , ive been viewing so called 'apostate' material from one source or another over the internet.

  i guess i have been leading a 'double life' as the jw's love to put it ; whilst still going to the meetings i was still reading things about the history of the borganization .

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  artful

  Welcome to the board Iron Eagle: Thanks for sharing your story, I'm sure many of us can relate to it. The people here have been a real goldmine during my quest to "rebuild" my Bible knowledge. I won't repeat what has been said on the other threads. But please check them out as there is a lot of very valuable information to be discovered.

  UD: You make a very interesting side point about 1Tim 2:5 showing that Jesus has his Human nature while in heaven. I have never thought of the scripture in that way before - thanks for bringing it to my attention!

  Cheers
  Artful
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  36

  "Bible Students" and 1919

  by artful in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a have a couple of questions pertaining to the wtbts and "bible students" from 1914-1919 and onward that i would appreciate receiving your feedback on:.

  1. does anyone know how many "bible students" (jehovah's witnesses) there were in 1919?

  i know that wtbts keeps such meticulous records of their "flock" now, but i have no access to material that covers that time period.

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  artful

  James: thanks for the additional information on the Memorial attendance. This confirms what I had thought regarding a drop in membership during 1919.
  The quote about the "tightening up" of the preaching reports in 1920 is also very interesting, and was obviously the beginning of the central HQ "keeping track" of the membership. What a bizarre requirement when you think about it - keeping a written record of the time you spend talking about God!!! Maybe God hands these report slips in to Satan every month to prove that there are people on earth "vindicating his name"! LOL

  Speaking of vindicating God's name; thanks for your post Danny!

  Cheers
  Artful
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  36

  "Bible Students" and 1919

  by artful in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a have a couple of questions pertaining to the wtbts and "bible students" from 1914-1919 and onward that i would appreciate receiving your feedback on:.

  1. does anyone know how many "bible students" (jehovah's witnesses) there were in 1919?

  i know that wtbts keeps such meticulous records of their "flock" now, but i have no access to material that covers that time period.

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  artful

  Thanks all for your comments!

  DannyBear: Thanks for the input on the congregation arrangement, elders etc. Any idea when this was done? I will check out the book you mention. Just curious if the figures you suggest come from there? Namely: "1916 the total number of Bible Students was in the mere 10's of thousands. By the 1920's it was in the 100's of thousands". As these seem to be much higher than the WTS claims I have since found...see below.

  Refinersfire: Some interesting observations regarding 1925-28. You are quite likely correct regarding the dumping of Russell's (chronological, and numeric calculations especially) theories during this time. What is the "JW in the DP" that you reference the 44,000 number from?

  hooberus: Thanks for your "class, not a class, class again" point! I have read that before and it is a very good argument against the "light brighter" theory, as well as the choosing of the "slave class".

  Blondie: Thanks very much for that reference in the Proclaimers book! This has helped me to find some other information regarding the numbers during that time:

  1. 1914-1918 (during the time of Christ's inspection!!!) - the Proclaimers book (p 424) admits that there was a 20% decline in "Bible Students" from 1914-1918 (interestingly they don't mention a further decline in 1919 - just that there were 5,700 at that time). This decline is quite likely due to Russel's death in 1916 and the 8 being put in prison in 1918 - although I imagine that even more people left after the 8 were in prison from June 1918 to March 1919.

  2. 1922 - Proclaimers book claims their numbers tripled from 1919 (no number is stated but I would assume approx. 15,000)

  3. 1933 - Proclaimers p.443 claims that there were 19,268 Witnesses in Germany. However, "Jehovah's Witnesses Stand Firm Against Nazi Assault" video (and printed study material) claims there were 25,000 Witnesses in Germany in 1933!! Another WTS lie perhaps?

  4. 1935 - 56,153 "Jehovah's Witnesses" worldwide - Proclaimers p.443.

  Cheers
  Artful
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  20

  Comments You Will Not Hear at the 1-12-03 WT Study

  by blondie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  wt comments you will not hear at the wt study 1/12/03

  12/1/02 watchtower page 13. enjoy personal study of gods word.

  psalm 77:12. psalm 77 (nlt).

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  artful

  Blondie: you are batting 1000 so far!!

  Oh, and don't forget:
  1 Cor 15:33 "Do not be misled: Bad association spoils..."
  ....No! No!... please don't make me say it again!!!

  This scriputure is really a fantastic example of the WTS totally missing the point. When you analyse the rest of 1Corinthians 15 what we find are some of the most powerful scriptures in the Bible pertaining to the resurrection of Christ and the resurrection of the dead. But what does the WTS see fit to highlight as an important "lesson" for the flock in all of this?: "Remember Johnny, don't play with the bad kids at school"! Sickening!!!

  Cheers
  Artful
• 
  36

  "Bible Students" and 1919

  by artful in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a have a couple of questions pertaining to the wtbts and "bible students" from 1914-1919 and onward that i would appreciate receiving your feedback on:.

  1. does anyone know how many "bible students" (jehovah's witnesses) there were in 1919?

  i know that wtbts keeps such meticulous records of their "flock" now, but i have no access to material that covers that time period.

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  artful

  A have a couple of questions pertaining to the WTBTS and "Bible Students" from 1914-1919 and onward that I would appreciate receiving your feedback on:

  1. Does anyone know how many "Bible Students" (Jehovah's Witnesses) there were in 1919? I know that WTBTS keeps such meticulous records of their "flock" now, but I have no access to material that covers that time period.

  I ask this because my wife (still a JW but finally starting to think for herself - after a lot of time and patient conversations with me!!) has been reading a lot about this date in her current study from the Isaiah book. The parallel is constantly made between Israel's release from Babylon's captivity and the release of the 8 WTBTS directors from prison in the USA. She has a problem with this parallel (and so do I of course) first of all because Israel's captivity was 70yrs, and the 8 men from Brooklyn were only in "captivity" for 9 months! And secondly, because of the references to the "small band" of Christians that supposedly then went "full ahead" with the preaching work from 1919 on!!!

  Which leads to the second question...

  2. Does anyone have any idea when the WTBTS led "Bible Students" became a functioning "religion" and not just a publishing company. I know they officially became "Jehovah's Witnesses" circa 1935 but that's not what I'm after. My sense from reading some of Russell's earlier writings is that they originally did not feel the need to establish man-made "buildings" of worship or formal congregations, but later this obviously changed. This is important to my wife (and myself) because the impression in the WTS publications is that from 1919 onward the "organization" was full steam ahead and basically functioning in the same manner as today.

  Any comments or information about the membership numbers and formal worship during this time period (1914-1930) would be appreciated.

  Thanks for your assistance.
  Artful