Posts by artful

12

JW's and the YMCA

by artful in

my father and mother (both loyal jws and in their 70s) have recently joined a local ymca for it's fitness facility.

it seems to me that the wts does not look favorably on this organization, possibly to the point of prohibiting jws from joining it.

i have searched for information online but to no avail.

My father and mother (both loyal JWs and in their 70s) have recently joined a local YMCA for it's fitness facility. It seems to me that the WTS does not look favorably on this organization, possibly to the point of prohibiting JWs from joining it.

I have searched for information online but to no avail. Since my computer is a Mac, I don't have access to search the WTS CD archive for any references to the YMCA. I'm sure there were some articles about it in the Watchtower (possibly from the '70s).

I don't want to curb my parents enthusiasm in their new found fitness endeavors, and I'm certainly not interested in this because I really care about the WTS position on the YMCA. Rather, if there is any prohibition of YMCA membership, I would like to suggest to my parents that they avoid any discussions about this to other JW's who may put them off.

On the other hand, if there is no WTS prohibition then I would like to instruct my parents this, and suggest that they could cheerfully tell any JW "friends" where to stick their comments!!

Cheers and thanks for sharing your resources!
Artful

33

Subtle Control Methods

by James2300 in

there have been a few threads on the subject of whether witnesses are a high control group or a cult.

some of the more overt methods of control have been mentioned, such as direct statements in the watchtower, the practice of disfellowshipping, the power elders have, and so on.

the results of these control techniques have also been mentioned; for example, many mention the intimidation, humiliation, fear, and powerlessness they felt either as a witness or while trying to leave.

artful

Some great points here James!

Re: the Watchtower format. I have noticed that in many of the recent WT articles the focus has been on organizational loyalty. As you mention, the article will start with some benign comments or illustrations and then proceed to the real purpose of the article...to promote the authority of the FDS. They have been spending an awful lot of time drawing parallels between themselves and the Old Testament leaders (the faithful ones of course). This constant equation of their authority with, say that of Moses, has been a very effective form of indoctrination that there is no life outside of the WTS and there can be no loyalty to God without loyalty to his "visible organization".

To demonstrate how effective and subtle this mind control method is, this weekend I had a discussion with my In-laws who recently had a two-day convention. They were so impressed with the CO's comment from the platform that "our loyalty is not to a work, or an organization but to Jehovah". They said that this gave them such a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside. I normally try not to enter into a JW discussion with them, but I just couldn't let this one go! I said that I couldn't understand how this CO could make a comment which implies that one could be loyal to God without being loyal to the WTS! I mentioned that the WTS repeatedly states that there is no separation in this regard. They quizzed me as to where I had read such a thing...no doubt believing it to have come from some "apostate" source. To their shock, I listed off three recent WT articles as mentioned above.

They have been so brainwashed, that to them, hearing the phrase "Trust in God" is the exactly the same as hearing "Trust in the Organization" but they don't even realize it!!!

Cheers
Artful

57

JW Rules That Are Just "Too Much"!

by Ephanyminitas in

i'm curious: what rules have you dealt with that were just "too much" -- whether they were "official" (i.e.

in print) or not?.

i think a good, general one is r-rated movies.

artful

Aside from the many points mentioned above.

1. Being 'stongly advised' by family and Elders not to have my brother whom I was closest to as my best man OR MC at my wedding. Although 10 years my senior and living a clean, moral life with his wife and 2 kids, he was not a baptised JW, and therefore prohibited from such priviledges as per a WTS article (sometime in the late 80's) which discussed the 'qualifications' necessary for the 'Master of the Feast' and wedding party.

What a disgrace! What regret I have over that.

2. Not being able to raise a glass and say 'cheers' at work functions or when with friends. I now make a point of doing this whenever I am around family, or former JW associates. Recent "new light" has made this semi-acceptable in JW circles - although they will still glance around sheepishly if they do it!

cheers
artful

3

Military and Scripture

by simplesally in

ok, i was reading on another thread and the poster brought up a side point that made me go "omg"!!!.

here's the quote:i would serve in the military as did cornelius, a roman army officer who converted to christianity ... and who was never required to leave the military, nor is there in record that he left the roman army.

it never dawned on me that cornelius was 1)an army officer and 2)no scripture demands his resignation of said position.. any thoughts?

artful

Yes very interesting indeed!

Especially considering he was the first of the Gentiles to be called 'clean' by God, receive Holy Spirit and be baptized without delay by Peter! All this without any mention of him having to first give up his office.

cheers
artful

25

Out with a bang....plus Elders (Gestapo) visit....

by TheApostleAK in

jw
friends

just da'd myself the other day...announcement tonight.. -------------------------------.

alan xxxxxxxxxx.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

artful

Alan.

Great letter! I must say that your comments concur with many of my thoughts and experiences over the past 6 months. Thanks for the encouraging words.

cheers
artful

4

Memorial Supper - A child's perspective

by Atreyu in

at the memorial supper, i took along my little daughter, nearly 6. she's not familiar with kingdom halls and what's going on there.

to make her comfortable, i let her bring a favourite "teddy bear", actuallay a cow.. she found it very peculiar that the bread and wine was passed from hand to hand without anyone eating or drinking.

she asked a lot and i tried to explain.

artful

LOL! She's got the right idea....out of the mouth of babes!

cheers
artful

8

A MUST WATCH Short Film

by AvailableLight in

jw
friends

for everyone w/ high-speed connections:.

check this out:.

http://64.152.216.82:80/7/1275/6955/3c8cf24a/rshort.download.akamai.com/1589/windows/t/the_parlor_l_dsl.wmv.

artful

This is excellent! LOL

thanks for the link
artful

34

"This generation" started in 1948.

by refiners fire in

among all those "born again" christian fundies, the general concensus is that the end time generation commenced in 1948.. here is their reasoning espoused by two of their prophetic writers, norman robertson and hal lindsey.. christ gave his great "last days" discourse in matthew 24, stating that "this generation would by no means pass away" before all was fullfilled.. matthew 24v 32,33 states:.

..."now learn from the fig tree as an illustration of this point.

just as soon as you see its young branches grow tender and it puts forth leaves , you know that summer is near.likewise when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.

artful

I understand your point Tom, but....

if a prophet (or interpreter) claims that 'THIS IS the meaning of Ezekiel's prophetic word, or THIS IS Ezekiel's promise' - given that Ezekiel (or any other bible writer) is 'speaking for God', doesn't that amount to the same thing as saying that this is 'God's prophetic word'? And if that is so, then aren't they by extension 'speaking for God'? Unless there is a disclaimer of 'this is my interpretation, or this could mean that...etc' then isn't the interpreter saying that 'this is what God said'?

Although the WTS does add these disclaimers now, I think that the difference between the WTS and Lindsey is that even with a disclaimer, the WTS adherents are expected to fully except their interpretations (as if from God). Failure to do so would mean the threat of expulsion and subsequent loss of opportunity for salvation. I don't think that Hal Lindsey makes such claims.

Good points about the WTS by the way

cheers
artful

34

"This generation" started in 1948.

by refiners fire in

among all those "born again" christian fundies, the general concensus is that the end time generation commenced in 1948.. here is their reasoning espoused by two of their prophetic writers, norman robertson and hal lindsey.. christ gave his great "last days" discourse in matthew 24, stating that "this generation would by no means pass away" before all was fullfilled.. matthew 24v 32,33 states:.

..."now learn from the fig tree as an illustration of this point.

just as soon as you see its young branches grow tender and it puts forth leaves , you know that summer is near.likewise when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.

artful

I think maybe you are splitting hairs here NM.

RF's point of a false prophet is well made. By transferring Ezekiel's authority onto himself (Ezekiel being a prophet of God), Lindsey is extending himself as one God's prophets. Lindsey puts himself in the role of God's prophet. Therefore, when his pronouncements prove false, he becomes a false prophet. Why the splitting of hairs?

Even the WT doesn't say that they 'speak directly for God' and yet there is no problem pronouncing them as a false prophet (and rightly so).

cheers
artful

17

From the Archives of JT #1

by JT in

over the years of being on the net there are always some post that just stand out more than others.

there is a guy not sure where he is from but his name is norm, - this guy has no idea the role he played in my leaving wt.

according to the watchtower, when has there not been "a time of urgency.

artful

The 'special talk' is normally delivered to the dubs the week after the memorial. This year it is entitled: 'Keep Close in Mind the "Fear Inspiring Day"!'.
an outline of it can be found at http://observer.org/

'Events that Make up the sign of Christ's Presence' is a section that makes up about 1/3 of the talk. This focuses mainly on the 'Composite Sign' misinformation...with the removal of 'this generation' I guess the 'CS' is all they have left to whip the dubs into a frenzy!

cheers
artful