Posts by Fleur

30

Hello everyone

by Ticker in

jw
friends

just wanted to say hi.

ive been reading the posts for quite sometime now but never actually ever posted.

wanted to thank everyone for the posts and for helping me to break free from the guilt after 20 years of it.

Do you remember when you first Googled "Jehovah's Witnesses"?

by Funchback in

i remember when i first googled "jehovah's witnesses".

i was sick to my stomach because i feared that i was disobeying jehovah.

although i was scared that i would find something "apostate" or "demonic", i still continued to click on different links.

Fleur

I didn't even think of typing JWs into a search engine all those years I was on the internet. All I wanted to do was get the hell out and block out that horrible part of my life, which I did for many years. I originally came across Freeminds from a different website. Someone had mentioned dating a JW, and someone told them not to and gave a few links to Freeminds. I had no trembling or guilt because I was already out for 6 years and sinning heavily. I was stuck on Freeminds for a good 3 or 4 days, deprogramming myself.

That's pretty much what it was like for me, Nos, only I had only been out about 2 years at that point. Started at Freeminds...found my way to H2O, then eventually ended up here...it'll be the fifth year anniversary of my "online apostacy" in just a few days. I have no doubt without having met and talked with so many who have been down the same road getting out that I'd still be stuck where I was. I've come a long way, baby, in those five years. We all have. Cheers to friends, now gone or moved on...thanks for being teachers to me. I salute you. ~essie

81

Extrem earthquake near Indonesia (8,9), thousands of dead people

by Erich in

an extrem strong earthquake happened recently in the indian ocean near island of sumatra.

level 8,5 - 8,9. no contact to many islands and coasts anymore.

no phone to the maledives and other touristic islands possible.

Fleur

I'm not so arrogant to think that we deserve an answer from God when we demand it.

Andi, I don't think that it's arrogant to believe that if a being is going to accept the worship and sacrifice, even to the point of dying in many cases, of the other child-like beings who worship them (if god is superior to us) that they should give some kind of frame of reference, or meaning of life, if you will, to those doing the worshipping. Or some form of protection. If you're going to go by the Bible, god did it before, why not do it again?

I will just leave it at this; that I respect everyone's beliefs, but that I don't like to discuss god/philosophy. I guess the dubs beat that desire out of me. nor do i want to convince anyone else that they shouldn't believe. its a conclusion that each person has to come to on their own, this is why i don't believe in preaching. yes i think that discussion is key and tolerance, on all sides of the religious issues in the world would make the planet more habitable. it just doesn't work out often that discussion betters the situation much.

If there is no God, why do so many become upset when disasters and death occur? Why blame someone who doesn't exist? And why demand from believers an explanation, when you have none better to offer?

Never did I blame god, that is what gets me the most about the believers in this thread! They keep saying that the non-believers are blaming god. Well speaking as a strong doubter/near total nonbeliever, all I can say is that I don't believe that god caused it, I don't believe god could have prevented it, I don't believe that god chose some to live and some to die, because I don't believe in god at all. Why am I upset that disasters occur? Because thousands of people died! That's upsetting to any human with a shred of heart and soul in them. That's why. I don't have all the answers and I didn't expect anyone else to either; but you know what really gets under my skin is when people say "i don't have all the answers" but then go on to quote what could be coming straight from the Borg cliche's about god having a greater purpose, all of that. it's like you say on the surface "i don't have all the answers' but deep down, you really do believe you do, otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to convince anyone else. You wouldn't need to explain to me why you believe. You'd be happy to say "I believe in God" and leave it at that. I used to believe. I believed with the best of them. I believed with the heart of a child believing that the world is safe and people can be trusted. But then, I grew up and realized that belief system does not work for me. It takes my power away, it places the ultimate fate of what happens in my life out of my hands and into a set of hands that cannot be trusted or counted upon to even give reasons why things are the way they are. That does not work for me. You may think that its strange that I hang out here if I don't want to discuss god. But there are enough viewpoints here that make it possible for me to do so. I don't hang out in any other religious forums for the sake of discussing religion, like I said before, I guess I'm all 'religioned" out. I don't understand why some get defensive (please notice i said some not all!) . if god is almighty and all knowing, and I'm wrong and he does exist, then I can bet he's not offended that i don' t believe in him. cause i'm just one lowly human of no consequence. it doesn't matter if i live to be 100 or die tomorrow. it matters to no one but the people who may, or may not miss me if i were gone. outside that circle, it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. i think that it would be arrogant to believe that it did. my life is no more important than anyone who got swept away in those torrents of water. yet I live, and they died. there is no sense in that to me. I cannot believe that god has a greater purpose for me than he could have had for any of the children who died in Asia, or who will die in the days to come from the aftermath of this tragedy. g'night all... ~essie p.s. to cyber; oh, i hope your friend is okay. i have ties to that area of the world that i cannot discuss here, but needless to say my family was very lucky, and the people that we have in one of the hardest hit areas have been accounted for, alive thus far.

8

Pulled at my heart strings

by Purza in

jw
friends

so on christmas day we were staying with my fiancee's parents.

my fiancee was not feeling well and i offered to go to 7-eleven to get him some pepto (this was about 8:30 a.m.) this older man (probably in his 70s) asked me if they had any milk that was less than a gallon container.

i said that i didn't work there, but i went over and found a half gallon for him.

Fleur

Oh, Purza. Bless your heart for caring so much about that man, it made me cry to read your post!

You can start by seeking out the local senior center, if there is one. Or you can do a search online to see if your town has a volunteer program like meals on wheels that visits seniors. There are so many amazing projects out there...making blankets for nursing home residents, volunteering at hospitals...believe me there are opportunities out there if you are looking for them. Or you can see if you can find a therapy pets charity near you to get your furry babies involved!

Old people do so often get overlooked. Thank you for caring so much.

(((((((((((purza))))))))

hugs

essie

26

What Did You "Wait" On Jehovah For?

by minimus in

jw
friends

.....a marriage mate, a mate to come into the "truth", "new light", etc........?????

?

Fleur

An answer to all the suffering in the world.

No answer has come yet.

I never expected God to fix my own problems, despite the elders told me to "pray more" and "be a better wife" when my (now ex) husband mistreated me.

I found that "god" helps those who help themselves.

81

Extrem earthquake near Indonesia (8,9), thousands of dead people

by Erich in

an extrem strong earthquake happened recently in the indian ocean near island of sumatra.

level 8,5 - 8,9. no contact to many islands and coasts anymore.

no phone to the maledives and other touristic islands possible.

Fleur

Sword of jah, you can kiss my a**. My devoutly JW mother said today that my grandmother is 'better off' now that she's dead and 'closer to the prize'. I don't think so. Why is she, and so many other of Jehovah's Happy People TM so envious of the dead? I've seen it all my life. My grandmother said the same thing about her dead husband after he passed on. I don't believe that a truly happy person envies the dead. Where is the joy of god's chosen people? I sure don't see it.

The destruction caused in Indonesia was not caused by Jehovah, so he is not a murder as you strongly accuse. This is blasphemy, and you will answer for this if not repentant.

I didn't say that god was a murderer. I said that if it exists it doesn't give a damn about what happens to us lowly ant-like humans. we're on our own, in my estimation. If you're right, if god IS there then BRING THE FREAKING END already, and kill me if you have to to save the millions of people who are dying in the most hideous ways. Just make the insanity stop!

Oh, he's not ready to bring it until it's firmly established that only he can save us? I think that point has long since passed if that is what he's waiting for!

Andi, maybe you're right and it is a cycle of giving. That is certainly a more palatable explanation than a lot of them...in my own heart I just don't think that the suffering of the hundreds of thousands of people who are going through this tsunami will be of help to others in the long run...many more people are going to die before this is over and it's just incomprehensible how any loving god could allow it. Same with the people who suffered in Beslan earlier this year. I can't see anything that justifies that, least of all comforting others when 'god' allows it to happen again elsewhere.

You know I love you, girl. Please know that I don't expect you or anyone else to explain your faith in a higher power to anyone, least of all me. I mean, I'm nobody LOL. If you believe, you have reasons in your heart that no one can know and that's more than good enough...likely the same way I have reasons in mine not to believe that no one can know. Does that make sense? like I said i really shouldn't be posting today, i can hardly see what i'm typing let alone articulate what i want to say.

love,

essie

43

Why does God let bad things happen?

by FMZ in

this question seems to be getting thrown around in the earthquake threads, and is asked a lot... so, what is your opinion on why god allows bad things to happen?

also, did you stop believing in god because he allows it?.

i will throw my two-penneth in when i have a little more time tonight.

Fleur

I think we humans naturally put man as more important than other species of animals. When you think about it honestly this type of clasification is very very arbitrarry and has no basis in fact and highly prejudical. So if as they say in the Bible that man was created in God's image and we our of a different species than God,,then just like man he should care very little about what happens another species who is less important(arbitrarily) to man,,the same way man cares very little about the cow from which his Mc donalds hamberger came from.

Frankie, this is interesting to me. Do you think then that God exists but he's just too busy to be bothered with humans? We're his preverbial ants, to use Eman's analogy? Or that humans don't rate high enough in the universe to a divine being to look over them?

Fleur, my apologies, I think you misunderstand me. Death is a terrible thing, and definitely an enemy while here on earth. But, it is also a necessary step in our existence.
Ever seen the movie Bruce Almighty? There is a hint of truth that we could all do with paying attention to... if we all got our own way, and no loved ones died, where would the earth be now?

I haven't seen the movie, FMZ. I understand the concept of death as a gateway to somewhere else. I wonder about it, I struggle with it. I ask myself that every day. But if there is another life after this, I think that it would be some kind of reincarnation and not something that God has anything to do with. If you take god out of it, and look at human souls as energy (which makes some kind of sense to me, don't know why) then kind of like the Force then after humans die, their souls continue to exist.

But I don't think that any kind of 'god' has any interest in interfering, if he/she/it does exist. I understand the concept that the earth couldn't hold all the people who have ever lived, etc. but who and why do the people who die, die? It doesn't set well with me to think that god picks and chooses who lives and who dies. I've known too many truly good people who died young and evil dictators who lived to ripe old ages. Somethings not right with that.
I hope i'm articulating clearly and in a non-confrontational manner, my brain is really f'd up today due to neurological activity i can't control so I likely shouldn't be trying to express myself at all today.

essie

43

Why does God let bad things happen?

by FMZ in

this question seems to be getting thrown around in the earthquake threads, and is asked a lot... so, what is your opinion on why god allows bad things to happen?

also, did you stop believing in god because he allows it?.

i will throw my two-penneth in when i have a little more time tonight.

Fleur

All in all, is death really so bad?

YES!

I mean, even if you believe in God and the Bible, the Bible calls death "an enemy" doesn't it? (or is that just the NWT?)

And if you can say 'well maybe the 23,000+ people who have already died in the natural disaster in Asia and the many thousands more who will surely die due to horrible disease from unsanitary conditions are now in a better place'. well, what about the mothers, the fathers, the sons and daughters left behind? Why do they deserve to suffer this living hell?

Better that the 'loving' god had wiped them all out and let them all go on together to the wonderful afterlife, then. Wouldn't you say?

So to answer the original question. Yes, I have stopped believing in God because of suffering in the world.

Tell me what could possibly be the good of:

The deaths in this natural disaster:

AIDS Orphans

Chinese babies thrown out like trash or being left to starve in dying rooms in orphanages.

Rape of women worldwide. Men being kidnapped or murdered in many countries for no reason by bands of guerillas. Bride burning.

People flying airplanes into buildings and killing thousands in the name of God.

Take any one you want, I've got plenty more. Tell me what the short or long term good could be in any of these things. I just don't believe in fairy tales anymore.

No offense intended to anyone who does believe in God. Most of my friends do and of course all my family are JW's. I don't try to change their mind, I nod and listen when they share their faith with me. But for myself, I have found that in my life, the only thing that faith in God has brought me is pain and disappointment that frankly, I am just better off without.

~essie

81

Extrem earthquake near Indonesia (8,9), thousands of dead people

by Erich in

an extrem strong earthquake happened recently in the indian ocean near island of sumatra.

level 8,5 - 8,9. no contact to many islands and coasts anymore.

no phone to the maledives and other touristic islands possible.

Fleur

Isn't it possible that the people who have suffered greatly from that earthquake and passed on are experiencing another level of live that is so wonderful that their lives as we know it, pale in comparison? Perhaps it too is a blessing in disguise? Like the JWs that still religiously attend their precious meetings, it's hard for us to fathom life beyond what we know. Until we die, we may never understand it.

That could be, like you said we won't know till we get there.

But what of the suffering of those left behind? The mothers who watched their children torn away and drown in a split second? how could a loving god put them through that?

It's too horrible to comprehend...the whole thing.

15

Breaking the ice

by filip in

jw
friends

i have now for 1 or 2 years or so slowly slipping further and further away from "the truth".

for that period i've been wondering if there existed a god, and if jehovahs witness was the only "right" religion and so on.

i've really been split.

Fleur

welcome! I think that there's lots of good advice in this thread but Andi's is right on the mark. I know that it's a tough spot to be in, but in just a few years you can really make it out on your own if you play it cool now.

Also another word of advice: if your parents have access to the computer you are using to visit this forum, I would recommend that you be sure to empty the cache/history when you're done here. Don't leave any sign that you post here.

hugs

essie