i thought it would be good to point out the difference between consciousness work, such as meditation and certain types of spirituality, and mental health.
although there are some overlaps as it does deal with your mind, it's occurred to me that mental health is primarily concerned with the psyche, and in that sense it might be considered a type of specialization in terms of a particular work dealing with human consciousness.
while things like meditation can help give you a degree of peace - and sometimes lasting shifts in consciousness - it would be good to understand the difference.. these days meditation is becoming more popular, and people are attracted to paths like buddhism for the same reason, but it really isn't a substitute for mental health care.
It could be the meditation, or it could be just a natural rebalancing after the removal of controling/limiting beliefs.
S, I would say the two are not separate. It is like that metaphor of the glass of dirty water, if you just let it settle the dirt drops and the water becomes clear. So in the same way if we don't use meditation to manipulate the mind, but just to let it settle and re-harmonize - then a natural peace becomes apparent.
i thought it would be good to point out the difference between consciousness work, such as meditation and certain types of spirituality, and mental health.
although there are some overlaps as it does deal with your mind, it's occurred to me that mental health is primarily concerned with the psyche, and in that sense it might be considered a type of specialization in terms of a particular work dealing with human consciousness.
while things like meditation can help give you a degree of peace - and sometimes lasting shifts in consciousness - it would be good to understand the difference.. these days meditation is becoming more popular, and people are attracted to paths like buddhism for the same reason, but it really isn't a substitute for mental health care.
Hi Ezekiel,
Of course that is what Buddhism is supposed to be about, and of course Christianity is supposed to be about love of neighbor - but it is like the ego co-opts these ideas rather than sincerely practicing or 'applying' it in life. In the case of Buddhism, naturally it threatens the ego. It is of course self deception, and the person doesn't see what they are doing. But in context of what I was discussing, it isn't even so much about someone being full of himself, but I am speaking of ego from a functional perspective. Sometimes the opposite is the case, and when someone is downtrodden like that it is certainly not the time to try to bring about 'ego death' - that would just compound the existing effect of abuse.
Now as far as meditation is concerned, and the relationship between it and mental health and the egoic state of consciousness, it just depends on where someone is at. The rule of thumb seems to be someone who has relatively good mental health would do okay with it, but if someone has lots of issues or essentially an unstable ego structure, then it is best if they practice with some guidance and sometimes not at all. When I was doing meditation retreats there would sometimes be people who have stuff come up and the teacher will recommend they stop meditating and go home.
See basically the point I am making, which is by no means original is that meditation ultimately points to a deeper aspect of the mind - and not so much a technique which brings temporary relief of mental suffering, even if one practices regularly as a kind of maintenance care. When that is seen clearly, which implies seeing through the ego as a relatively superficial aspect of yourself, there is more of a permanent shift in consciousness. In other words it is about a kind of discovery, and not a form of conditioning. Another view would frame it as a developmental process, which strictly speaking you cannot force by using a technique anymore than you can make someone mature physically. This is where the inquisitive aspect comes in, such as koans in the zen tradition and inquiry with Advaita Vedanta.
Now having said that, I would have to add you wouldn't go into this judgement like how you're too much of a mess to do this. In that spirit of discovery, you can certainly try it if you are drawn to meditation. The whole thing is really a very natural process, there's no need to force yourself into a certain type of meditation practice or sit a particular way. If you feel you need guidance and there is no guidance available where you're at, look up the info online and try it out for yourself, and talk with people - just take care to see how you're doing and don't try to force anything. After all the whole thing is about understanding yourself deeply, not trying to fit into someone else's mould of how you should be.
a 'friend' of mine just dumped his wife, who has basically been supporting him probably more than just financially.
without going into much detail, lets just say his thinking is not very clear.
anyway, i feel pretty bad for her as it came as quite a shock, and although they are probably just incompatible it just got me thinking along these lines, and i found this in the book the heart of the buddha by chogyam trungpa.
Wow, it's interesting to see how long winded I can be.. lol
At the time when I posted this I was rather dismayed at the change in my friend's relationship, but of course that's his business even though it does kind of ripple through to my relationship with him. And naturally the same thing applies ultimately, even if it is not a romantic relationship.
One thing that occurs to me is how much the intense emotions may get in the way of intimacy, and by that I just mean connecting with each other on a deep level. I mean when all is said and done, can we just be totally open to that other person we're in relationship with, is there that level of trust - you know?
i thought it would be good to point out the difference between consciousness work, such as meditation and certain types of spirituality, and mental health.
although there are some overlaps as it does deal with your mind, it's occurred to me that mental health is primarily concerned with the psyche, and in that sense it might be considered a type of specialization in terms of a particular work dealing with human consciousness.
while things like meditation can help give you a degree of peace - and sometimes lasting shifts in consciousness - it would be good to understand the difference.. these days meditation is becoming more popular, and people are attracted to paths like buddhism for the same reason, but it really isn't a substitute for mental health care.
I thought it would be good to point out the difference between consciousness work, such as meditation and certain types of spirituality, and mental health. Although there are some overlaps as it does deal with your mind, it's occurred to me that mental health is primarily concerned with the psyche, and in that sense it might be considered a type of specialization in terms of a particular work dealing with human consciousness. While things like meditation can help give you a degree of peace - and sometimes lasting shifts in consciousness - it would be good to understand the difference.
These days meditation is becoming more popular, and people are attracted to paths like Buddhism for the same reason, but it really isn't a substitute for mental health care. The reason why it 'works' sometimes is because it deals with the mind at a deeper level, and so if one goes through it all the way it can render problems of the psyche irrelevant. However, if that is not even the intention in the first place, then it is possible that it can intensify (which I would distinguish from worsen) the pathological experience.
More specifically, if there is a readiness or an actual movement toward a state of consciousness beyond ego, then the role of some kind of contemplative practice becomes relevant - which is not to say it is the only thing needed. But on the other hand if there is no such movement or readiness, then it only makes sense to deal with things on the egoic level and a process of integration to bring about some coherent sense of self in that way. In fact, I would say depending on where someone is at on "the spiritual path", you would want to do both to cover your basis - if they are really digging into consciousness. Furthermore this has nothing to do with belief, someone may take Buddhism as a religion but the state of consciousness can be equal to something like the average Jehovah's Witness or something.
Now there are therapists who are knowledgeable in both out there these days, and beside the concern of whether they understand it on more than an academic level it just goes to reason that depending on where the client is at someone with specialized expertise on where they're at would be better at sorting things out there. But I'm sure these therapists are helpful for people who are kind of in between or in transition, and I expect to come to know more of them in the future so it should be interesting to learn about the kind of work they do.
i really scored some great bargains today.
jackets for the grandkids at 50%.
i saved $100 there.. i got 12 dress socks for my husband at 50% so that was a savings of $28.. we saved 76 dollars on a rollaround tool chest!.
What about deals at chain stores which might be available in our areas, anyone come across any? For that matter anything on the web, I'd be interested in unique gift ideas too. Reminds me of that one guy in the movie Airplane: "There's a sale at Macy's!!"
is it possible for someone to post reams of anti-jw stuff at this site, then repent for what they have done and go back to the kingdom hall to become fully-fledged witnesses once more?.
a couple of posters that i have met personally and spent mutually enjoyable exchanges with, have actually disappeared off the face of the earth and covered their tracks behind them.
i'm sure that in at least one instance, the guy has returned to the fold.. maybe it's me that they can't abide and it's nothing to do with jw's!!.
Posting anti-JW stuff is not the same as seeing it is not true. If that is the case, then the person is just bouncing from one side to the other - meanwhile they are very unsure and insecure inside about what the truth really is.
what wisdom would you like to share with others?
one of the many that i have is patience and making time your friend.
what's yours?
"That wasn't chicken." -Fortune Cookie
i'm sure 99% of you know this already, but i'm warning whoever visits here and doesn't know.. .
if any of you still read god's word, i ask you to read eze.
33:11 & prov.
Well at this point Laraby has got to be long gone, if she intended to read any replies at all.
While I enjoy good sarcasm like anyone else, I have to say the opportunity to make any kind of point with her is long gone. Even if she did look at replies in the beginning she's not going to look at the thread at this point.
Al Bundy!
(see: Married With Children)
i don't know if this has ever been specifically addressed in a thread before, so i thought i'd go ahead and start it.
what i mean by vulnerability has a big emotional aspect, but what i want to point out is how it is really not so separate from our thought process.. often times we find that people who disagree will do so out of 'emotional reasons', but i suggest that the emotions are secondary and is really a form of defensiveness.
in fact, if you pay attention to the whole process, you may notice a certain visceral feeling where it feels like a contraction, and then the emotional response either distances, blocks or turns away from the issue at hand, and the one feeling threatened will stop responding to reason.. we might consider this as a recognition that the mental identification is threatened, which is to say my religion, my way of thinking, experiences and the like.
I don't know if this has ever been specifically addressed in a thread before, so I thought I'd go ahead and start it. What I mean by vulnerability has a big emotional aspect, but what I want to point out is how it is really not so separate from our thought process.
Often times we find that people who disagree will do so out of 'emotional reasons', but I suggest that the emotions are secondary and is really a form of defensiveness. In fact, if you pay attention to the whole process, you may notice a certain visceral feeling where it feels like a contraction, and then the emotional response either distances, blocks or turns away from the issue at hand, and the one feeling threatened will stop responding to reason.
We might consider this as a recognition that the mental identification is threatened, which is to say my religion, my way of thinking, experiences and the like. So in that sense for someone to be really open they really are in a position of vulnerability, and that vulnerability is there in so far as they identify with whatever that might come under question. (which is to say it is a subjective experience, ultimately dependent on their frame of mind)
So in this regard I think we would want to be careful in how much we choose to pursue certain issues which may be key and where the person might feel especially threatened. If someone is going to open, it seems they really need to feel safe enough to be that vulnerable, otherwise there's just going to be a reinforcement of that defense, which amounts to blocking things out of consciousness.
So this isn't really a new point, but hopefully it is useful to kind of break it down and go into it with a little more detail - and bring it into consciousness.
