Good to see you too Robyn. We did have some great times together. Bet the JWs at the congregation we visited that time are still wondering when we will be back. I'm sure the JWs reported at least 5 hours for the time they spent love bombing us.
Athanasius
JoinedPosts by Athanasius
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97
The Worst Thing About Being in your 40's
by Robdar inthe worst thing about being in your 40's is your friends start to die.
it's the first year anniversary of the passing of my friend, john kessler.
he was so tall, so blonde, so loving and so goofy.
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97
The Worst Thing About Being in your 40's
by Robdar inthe worst thing about being in your 40's is your friends start to die.
it's the first year anniversary of the passing of my friend, john kessler.
he was so tall, so blonde, so loving and so goofy.
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Athanasius
Sorry to hear about your loss, Robyn. Unfortunately as we age we lose friends and family. But we should be thankful that we are still here to remember the happy times we shared with those we have lost.
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if the GB was female....?
by highdose injust a wandering thought, what kind of religon would the jw's be if the situation was reversed and the gb was all female, only women could hold postions of power in the cong etc....?.
over to you my freinds....
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Athanasius
"Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutly." So it doesn't matter which gender controls the JW Governing Body. The problem is the Watchtower power structure which is a dictatorship.
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2010: What next for Jehovahs Witnesses?
by truthseeker inin the last two years we have seen many changes in the watchtower - a few are listed below.
what are your thoughts concerning the movement and direction of jehovah's witnesses for 2010 and beyond?.
doctrinal changes:.
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Athanasius
Right on Fark. Though Freddy Franz was a little unbalanced, still his strange theology was somewhat original. With the passing of Freddy the Organization is left with bland party hacks, men who got their positions because they followed orders, not because they had ideas.
The young are leaving in droves. So we will continue to see the greying of the JWs in developed countries and a decline in contributions. The growth in Third World countries will further drain the Watchtower's declining funds. In time without new ideas the growth will slow in developing countries. The JWs won't disappear, but they will decline in numbers and become an insignificant sect.
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When Was The Last Time You Read From The Bible?
by minimus ini can't remember.
i don't think about it .
what a difference a few years make!.
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Athanasius
I try to read a chapter or two of the Bible every day. Right now I am reading 2 Kings. I've actually done more Bible reading and study since leaving the Watchtower than all the years I served as an elder.
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10
Had fun today
by iknowall558 intoday i went into a charity shop near where i live.
it was the cancer research shop.
when i was there i noticed a nwt , (the new softback version), sitting on the shelf amongst the bric-a-brac.
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Athanasius
Last week there was a NWT for sale at the St. Vincent DePaul Thrift store. They sell their hardcovers for $1.00. Since I already have a copy I left it there. It will probably be still there the next time I visit. However, I did buy a copy of "A Catholic's Answer To the Jehovah's Witnesses."
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Athanasius
Hi Phil. Check your private message box. I sent you a message in which the names of your possible relatives are mentioned.
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Athanasius
Welcome Pjschipper. I may have gone to school with a couple of your relatives. Hope that you enjoy the forum.
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Poll: Who Left Whilst Still Believing?
by brinjen inthis is for an upcoming youtube project.
i would love to do this on a mass scale... think there might be something "big" in the results.. 1. were you a born-in (including those who's parents converted while they were still children) or did you convert as an adult?.
2. when you left, did you still (a) fully believe in the truthtm, (b) partially believe or (c) realise it was all a load of crap?.
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Athanasius
1. Born in.
2. C.
3. C.
4. I didn't fear Armageddon as a JW, why would I fear it now?
5. A. Catholic Christian.
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Women Apostles in New Testament Times
by Athanasius in[if !supportemptyparas] [endif].
[if !supportemptyparas] [endif].
[if !supportemptyparas] [endif].
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Athanasius
An earlier post discussed the possiblity of the Watchtower giving women greater responsiblity in the congregation. Well there is a Scriptural basis for women holding positions of oversight. I did some research and wrote the following essay about the only woman apostle mentioned in the New Testament:
THE APOSTLE JUNIA
Were there women apostles in New Testament times? Though this may be a surprise to some, yes, there were. St. Paul mentions such a woman in the sixteenth chapter of his letter to the Romans. Often times Romans 16 is glossed over when reading the Bible, being treated like the cast and credits that appear at the end of a film that one glances as you leave the cinema. So it is easy to overlook Romans 16:7 (New Revised Standard Version), which says: “Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives who were in prison with me; they are prominent among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.”
Was Junia an apostle? Jehovah’s Witnesses and some Fundamentalist groups say no! The Jehovah’s Witness Bible version, the New World Translation, following a medieval tradition, renders Romans 16:7 as: “Greet Andronicus and Junias my relatives and my fellow captives, who are men of note among the apostles and who have been in union with Christ longer than I have.” Interestingly the Greek word that the Witness translator, Fred Franz, renders as “men of note,” is translated as “notable (ones)” in another Witness Bible version, the Kingdom Interlinear Translation, thus not necessarily referring to two men, but to persons of note. So did St. Paul commend Junia, a woman, or Junias, a man?
Regarding Junias/Junia, the ANCHOR BIBLE DICTIONARY Volume 3, page 1127 says: “Without exception, the Church Fathers in late antiquity identified Andronicus’ partner in Romans 16:7 as a woman, as did minuscule 33 in the 9 th century which records iounia with an acute accent. Only later medieval copyists of Romans 16:7 could not imagine a woman being an apostle and wrote the masculine name ‘Junias.’ This latter name did not exist in antiquity; its explanation as a Greek abbreviation of the Latin name ‘Junianus’ is unlikely.”
St. John Chrysostom, one of the Church Fathers who lived in the Fourth Century A.D. clearly understood Junia to be a woman. In commenting on Romans 16:7, Chrysostom writes: “And indeed to be apostles at all is a great thing. But to be even amongst these of note, just consider what a great encomium this is! But they were of note owing to their works, to their achievements. Oh! How great is the devotion of this woman, that she should be even counted worthy of the appellation of apostle! (A Select Library of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church Volume 11, Edited by Philip Schaff, page 555.
The fourth century Christian scholar, St. Jerome, also understood Junia to be a woman. In the Latin Vulgate Jerome translates Romans 16:7 thus: “Salutate Andronicum, et Iuniam cognatos, et concaptivos meos: qui sunt nobiles in Apostolis, qui et ante me fuerunt in Christo.” Which literally means: “Salute Andronicus and Iunia my relatives and fellow-captives, who are well known among the Apostles, who before me were in Christ.” Granted my Latin is sort of ruff due to years of inactivity but the name Junia, though in this sentence the name appears in the accusative thus the “am” ending, is in the feminine gender. Therefore, from above and other early Christian testimony, there is no doubt that Junia was a woman. THE NEW INTERPRETER’S BIBLE COMMENTARY, Volume 10, page 762 says: “Junia is thus one of the female ‘apostles,’ the only one so called; though presumably others, such as Mary Magdalene, were known as such as well.”
Though not of the “Twelve,” to be apostles Andronicus and Junia held positions of responsibility in the early church. Perhaps as a husband and wife team they shared these responsibilities. Nevertheless, it would be mere speculation to assign to Junia positions and responsibilities in the church that are not mentioned in the New Testament. However, unlike other women who had important roles in his ministry, St. Paul uses the title apostle in reference to Junia.
Regarding the definition of the term “apostle,” THE INTERPRETER’S DICTIONARY OF THE BIBLE Volume 1, page 170, says: “A title denoting a commissioned messenger or ambassador. It occurs seventy-nine times in the NT, but with various shades of meaning, both of a precise and general character. In Christian usage the term has two distinctive connotations: (a) it is limited to certain men of the first generation of the church’s history; and (b) it marks the bearer of the title, among other qualifications, as a missionary of a gospel.”
THE ANCHOR BIBLE DICTIONARY Volume 1, page 309, says: “Chronologically, in the earliest use of the term in the NT, apostolos is an administrative designation for envoys, delegates, and representatives. Their title and function are given in 2 Cor. 8:23 as “envoys of the churches” (apostoloi ekklesion), that is, envoys appointed and sent out by the churches to represent them. In other places, the term “apostle” is understood in a more religious sense as a missionary and preacher of the gospel. Acts 1:21-26 and 13:1-3, passages describing the appointment of different types of ‘apostles,’ show that such appointments did not exclude divine intervention and authorization. The tasks of these apostles could vary but they seem to be centered in the proclamation of the gospel and the founding and administering of new churches. Romans 16:3-16 includes a long list of greetings, among them the two apostles Andronicus and Junias (Rom. 16:7). Perhaps the name ‘Junias’ was corrected by scribes to replace Junia, a female name; such a correction would indicate that a woman (here possibly a married couple like Prisca and Aquila in 16:3, and Philologus and Julia in 16:15. although none of them is called apostle) could serve as a missionary apostle.”
It is true that “apostle” has several meanings in New Testament usage. Which definition applied to Junia? The Scriptures are silent about this unique woman. Nevertheless, Junia has the honour of being the only female apostle mentioned in the New Testament.