Posts by ezekiel3

5

The Watchtower and the Privilege System - Reward and Punishment

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

many of you here have had experience with the unwritten "privilege system.

" some of you had the privilege of going to the "ministerial training school.

" others of you had to wait 6 months after reinstatement for the "privilege" of commenting at the meetings.

ezekiel3

I would agree there is a set system of priveledges. And "priviledges" is an critical buzzword.

"Losing priviledges" is a practical code within congregations to mark members. If certain ones are not seen giving talks, reading at the WT or book study, commenting, this is the equivalent of a public condemnation.

Notice how sterilization (vasectomy, tubes tied) is handled in the WT: ( w99 6/15 p. 28 Questions From Readers)

But Christians who are not facing such an unusual and distinct risk would certainly want to use ?soundness of mind? and shape their thinking and deeds by God?s esteem for reproductive potential. (1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:8; 2:2, 5-8) This would reflect mature sensitivity to Scriptural indications. Yet, what if it became publicly known that a Christian blithely disregarded God?s evaluations? Would not others doubt whether he (or, she) was a good example, having a reputation of making decisions in harmony with the Bible? Such a disturbing blemish on one?s reputation could, of course, affect a minister?s being qualified for special privileges of service, though that might not be so if one had in ignorance had this procedure performed.?1 Timothy 3:7.

So this is indeed the first level of discipline with JWs. It does not require an elder's meeting or the involvement of the person being disciplined. And because it is a "priveledge" it does not need to be discussed in normal procedures.

25

Why Have Memorial if...

by Sweetp0985 in

no one partakes of it?

out of the many memorials i have been to, i only recall 1 when a bethelite came to give our talk and he was of the anointed and partook of the emblems.

but anyway i've read a post on here and heard about a person in my local area that partook of the emblems and their "anointed" status was questioned.

ezekiel3

This is just speculation....

Absolutely true, but no different from 1975, or forecasting the end based on the generation that saw 1914. Please consider these points when discussing JWs and the End:

1) The JW thrives and needs urgency. The "end is near!" is what motivates and stirs up the R&F. The only thing that s comes close to this is getting converts and that isn't happening much in the western world.

2.) If you heard the 2004 Memorial talk, it was 25% Jesus and 75% DON'T PARTAKE IF YOU ARE NOT ANOINTED. The elders do not have to count partakers if the elders consider someone to be too new or loony. Also multiple WT articles pushed the issue of partaking leading up to the Memorial. The GB wants the number to go down because they look like fools over the wavering counts and because it will promote urgency.

3) Notice that the greatest increase in JW members happen around crisis times (even if the crisis is invented by the GB) recently: pre-1975, early 1990s (based on the 1914 generation). The numbers are stagnant now. What do JWs need to grow? Another crisis.

Thus my speculation: the GB is hoping the number of anointed partakers decreases. Trust me, if it goes below 4,000 it will become a neo-sign: proof that the end is on our doorstep and spurring the R&F out into the streets to convert yet another group of suckers.

25

Why Have Memorial if...

by Sweetp0985 in

no one partakes of it?

out of the many memorials i have been to, i only recall 1 when a bethelite came to give our talk and he was of the anointed and partook of the emblems.

but anyway i've read a post on here and heard about a person in my local area that partook of the emblems and their "anointed" status was questioned.

ezekiel3

I am so very confused.

So are we!

Simple explanation(?): Jesus came invisibly in 1914 the second time (the first was on earth as a man), he will "come" in judgement the third time (Armeggedon, this is Jesus on the white horse in Revelation), and Jesus will "come" to receive his anointed in heaven a fourth time!?!

The Facts: Russel blew it in 1914; if he and his posse had been beamed up then he would have been completly right. Notice the four "comings" above would have happened at the same time. However, it didn't. And then there were too many members so Rutherford renamed everybody JWs and introduced the "other sheep" with an earthly hope. The Other Sheep are an afterthought.

Oops!, again, the end still hasn't come, there are 6,000,000 "other sheep" and 8,000 anointed (a number that fluctuates weirdly enough to puzzle any statistician). The "afterthought" other sheep have no direct relationship to any JW doctrine (only the anointed do).

Yet, the old anointed are rapidly dying off without the partaker count reducing significantly. How to explain? Are "unfaithful" anointed being replaced?

This doctrine is quickly collasping and will soon face a major shift in belief to save face. But remember, the Governing Body's MO is to excuse and "quick-fix" their doctrinal mishaps. They can't do anything else because to discard "1914", "144,000 anointed", etc would be to admit the entire premise was wrong.

My friends, we are getting down to bedrock.

25

Why Have Memorial if...

by Sweetp0985 in

no one partakes of it?

out of the many memorials i have been to, i only recall 1 when a bethelite came to give our talk and he was of the anointed and partook of the emblems.

but anyway i've read a post on here and heard about a person in my local area that partook of the emblems and their "anointed" status was questioned.

ezekiel3

Yerusalyim : Good point! I had to do some research just to see what the JWs say about this. Was I ever underwhelmed...

*** w78 3/1 pp. 6-7 Memorializing Christ?s Death?How Much Longer? ***
Memorializing Christ?s Death?How Much Longer?THE MEMORIAL of Christ?s death has only a limited run. To first-century Christians, the apostle Paul wrote: "For as often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives." (1 Cor. 11:26) This plainly means that, when the Lord Jesus Christ does arrive, the proclaiming of his death by means of celebrating the Lord?s Supper, or Evening Meal, will stop.?1 Cor. 11:20.
With his coming absence and his return in mind, Jesus said to his disciples when inaugurating the Memorial: "In the house of my Father there are many abodes. Otherwise, I would have told you, because I am going my way to prepare a place for you. Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you home to myself, that where I am you also may be."?John 14:2, 3.
Until Jesus came to receive the last of these disciples to himself in the heavenly place prepared for them, the memorial of his death would continue being celebrated. When all are finally united with him above for the purpose of acting as priests with him and ruling as kings with him, the Memorial celebration on earth will cease.

Wow! I did'nt JWs believed in a 3RD coming of Jesus! Strange how there aren't any scriptual references in the last paragraph. Check this one out:

*** w84 2/15 p. 20 The Recent Pen for "Other Sheep" *** (I did not make up this title, I promise)
18
When, in God?s due time, the remnant of the spiritual Israelites finish their earthly course and pass off the scene to enter their heavenly reward, the new covenant that was based on the blood of the Mediator, the Fine Shepherd, Jesus Christ, will cease to apply, it having successfully served its purpose. With this the observing of the Lord?s Evening Meal on Passover Day of each year will stop. Then, too, "this fold" for the flock of spiritual Israelites will cease to exist. The dedicated, baptized other sheep will remain on the earth to enter into the blessings that the Kingdom, composed of the Fine Shepherd, Jesus Christ, and his 144,000 fellow priests and kings, will pour down upon them. The flock that will be left upon the cleansed earth will be made up of only the united other sheep. They will continue to listen to the voice of their Shepherd-King, and this will lead to their gaining eternal life in human perfection upon a Paradise earth.

SweetP:

This means that if all the anointed die off before Armeggedon, NO MORE MEMORIAL. So your question is valid. Of course the WTBTS has hinged its doctrine on the premise that this won't happen. This is why JWs are so interested in the anointed partaker count, its a gauge for Armeggedon. 8000 to go...

28

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 7-18-04 WT Study

by blondie in

(not christians or witnesses of jesus).

.and it was first in antioch that the disciples were by divine providence called christians.

and then when other nations began to study with us, we were called international bible students.

ezekiel3

Blondie: Thanks for your efforts in producing an unabridged comment this week. We missed you last week.

The brothers are just getting tired. They're all stressed out.

Translation: Tired of being feed spiritual gruel at all the meetings. The meetings are boring!!!! The elders are asleep at the podium. I know some who don't study just because the meetings are enough, why go through it twice, when you heard it 1000 times before?

But is that a healthy - correct view?

Yeah, but the GB would never blame themselves. Instead of admitting this, the GB is saying its Satan's fault and use the burden of being a JW to push the R&F harder:

When we take on the yoke of discipleship, we are fighting Satan.

So I'm supposed to knock on doors and sell this gruel to someone else, when it only makes me "tired and stressed out"? Give me something to believe in besides a heap of broken promises and we'll talk.

24

If You Could've Remained A JW & Not Be Shunned In Any Way, Would You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

if the society decided to not shun persons who were weak, who disagreed or who simply didn't go to meetings and field service, would you still be a jw?

the catholics have all sorts of rules and regulations that should be obeyed yet if one doesn't abide by the law, they are generally never excommunicated.

if the witnesses decided to "just be there" for the "brotherhood", i'll bet that many would not be on this site.

ezekiel3

As you know......this question can only be answerd 'with a yes', by those....eh......"still in".

All right Gumby, maybe I'm a gumby too...

But the answer is NO! I would not be a JW if there no shunning for disagreement. But I choose to continue to be one because I will not break my family and friendships. I cannot change the minds of those I love without losing them.

So, since discovering that I was a wolf, I routinely wear my sheep suit: "My what interesting comments you have!" "The better to corrupt you, my dear."

Ever thought about the distraught JW parent who has one child who is baptised and one who isn't? Both leave the truth, the baptized kid gets DFed, the unbaptized kid gets "encouraged" with no limits on association with the family!

JW kids: DON'T GET BAPTIZED and you won't have to answer the question of this thread!

4

JW Meditation: Is it Really Mind-Control?

by ezekiel3 in

jws are increasingly urged to meditate ?jw style?.

the ?asana?

as pictured in the watchtower and other publications is always the same: a person seated, holding a bible (often to the chest), and staring vaguely upwards.

ezekiel3

*** Insight from the Scriptures Vol-2 p. 363 Meditation ***
The kind of deep, concentrated thinking in which a person seriously reflects on past experiences, ponders and muses over current matters, or thoughtfully contemplates possible future events.

*** w84 2/1 p. 28 Do You Meditate or Just Daydream? ***
Meditation, however, can be done at a much deeper level . Have you ever watched a cow chewing the cud, or ruminating, as it is called? To ?ruminate? also means to meditate. But a cow cannot ruminate on an empty stomach, any more than we can meditate with empty minds. Hence, a study of the Bible has value, for the more you study, the more spiritual thoughts you have to ?chew.? And even if you rate yourself as a poor student, you will find that as you apply yourself, study will gradually become easier, more pleasurable. New thoughts will connect with old thoughts. Seemingly disconnected thoughts will begin to organize themselves into coherent patterns. And as Solomon said, ?to the understanding one knowledge is an easy thing.? (Proverbs 14:6) But it takes time. And if studying God?s Word is not presently one of your main enjoyments in life, why not ponder, or meditate, on this right now?

*** w72 9/1 p. 523 You Are Never Alone ***
Meditation should be purposeful, enabling one to think things over and arrive at some definite conclusion. To that end we need guidance when we meditate, and the best guide of all is the Holy Bible. When reading it, pause and mentally expand on what you read. Thus you will avoid helter-skelter thoughts with no definite goal.

*** w57 8/1 p. 469 Will You Get to Live on Earth Forever? ***

To meditate we must have peace and quiet, must shut out sounds that assault the ear and blind ourselves to sights that distract the eye. The organs of sense must be soothed so they will not be occupying the mind with their messages, thus freeing the mind to think of other things, new things, different things, freeing it to probe within itself instead of being barraged from without. If a room is full more persons cannot enter. If the mind is occupied new thoughts cannot come. We must make room to receive when we meditate. We must open the arms of the mind to new thoughts, and do this by clearing our mind of the everyday thoughts and concerns, by shutting out the daily jumble of complex modern living. It takes time and solitude to thus empty and free the mind of the daily whirling turmoil, but if we do this the mind will graze its way through the green pastures of God?s Word and will be soothed by the restful waters of truth. Meditation will bring you many fresh, delectable, spiritual tidbits; doing it regularly will spiritually revive, renew and replenish you. Then you can say of Jehovah: ?He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters; he restores my soul.? Or, ?He gives me new life.??Ps. 23:2, 3, RS; AT.

4

JW Meditation: Is it Really Mind-Control?

by ezekiel3 in

jws are increasingly urged to meditate ?jw style?.

the ?asana?

as pictured in the watchtower and other publications is always the same: a person seated, holding a bible (often to the chest), and staring vaguely upwards.

ezekiel3

JWs are increasingly urged to meditate ?JW style?. The ?asana? as pictured in the Watchtower and other publications is always the same: A person seated, holding a Bible (often to the chest), and staring vaguely upwards.

Although this ?meditation? is rarely practiced by the R&F, some do enjoy ?picturing? what Paradise will be like. It is obvious to me that this is being pushed as a method of creative visualization. Most Christian religions avidly denounce any sort of formal meditation ? not JWs. Is this just a white-washed form of mind control?

Compare the excerpts from Shakti Gawain to the JW mantra: ?Reflect on the past, muse on the present, and contemplate the possible future.? (Red highlights are mine.)

Creative Visualization by Shakti Gawain
In creative visualization you use your imagination to create a clear image, idea, or feeling of something you wish to manifest. Then you continue to focus on the idea, feeling, or picture regularly, giving it positive energy until it becomes objective reality ... in other words, until you actually achieve what you have been imagining.
Either way, the technique is basically the same. After relaxing into a deep, quiet, meditative state of mind, imagine that you are working in your ideal job situation. Imagine yourself in the physical setting or environment that you would like, doing work that you enjoy and find satisfying, interacting with people in a harmonious way, receiving appreciation and appropriate financial compensation. Add any other details that are important for you, such as the hours you work, the amount of autonomy and/or responsibility you have, and so on. Try to get a feeling in yourself that this is possible; experience it as if it were already happening. In short, imagine it exactly the way you'd like it to be, as if it were already so!
It should be noted here that this technique cannot be used to "control" the behavior of others or cause them to do something against their will. Its effect is to dissolve our internal barriers to natural harmony and self-realization, allowing everyone to manifest in his or her most positive aspect.

What ?internal barriers? is the WTBTS trying to dissolve? See the WTBTS quotes below?

18

The Hooks: Which One Did You Bite?

by ezekiel3 in

i have a theory that recruited jws (not those born into it) all have a specific reason why they converted.

i also believe that it is still these "hooks" that keep them going - in the face of so many facts that prove jws are ridiculously wrong.

for those who were raised a jw: was there a hook besides the negative "you will lose your life, family and friends?".

ezekiel3

I don't think you need a hook if you are born into JW-ism. You are socialized as a JW, taught JW teachings as the one sole truth, and you are isolated from the world at large.

Gita: You are right, I was born a JW as well. With all the hooks embedded. My awareness of what was actually reality involved removing one hook at a time, each was a psychological trama to me. I just always been curious about those who came in from the outside.

18

The Hooks: Which One Did You Bite?

by ezekiel3 in

i have a theory that recruited jws (not those born into it) all have a specific reason why they converted.

i also believe that it is still these "hooks" that keep them going - in the face of so many facts that prove jws are ridiculously wrong.

for those who were raised a jw: was there a hook besides the negative "you will lose your life, family and friends?".

ezekiel3

I have a theory that recruited JWs (not those born into it) all have a specific reason why they converted. I also believe that it is still these "hooks" that keep them going - in the face of so many facts that prove JWs are ridiculously wrong. For those who were raised a JW: was there a hook besides the negative "You will lose your life, family and friends?"

What got you hooked?

1) Never having to die

2) United organization, including racial or anti-war issues

3) "It will all work out in Paradise" answer to crisis/stress

4) Disbility or chronic illness cured

5) Bad taste from other religions

6) "Love bombing" from the congregation

7) Analytical reasoning or "having an answer for everything"