bavman

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Posts by bavman

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  44

  WILL THE WATCHTOWER EVER DO THE RIGHT THING AND APOLOGIZE?

  by nvrgnbk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  will this arrogant, presumptuous organization that has ruined so many lives, that loves to talk about humility and modesty, ever present a formal apology to all those who've suffered at their hands?.

  would it really matter if they did?.

  nvrgnbk .

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  bavman

  I asked this question to a couple of elders. They claimed that the society has apologized in the past. I said 'no, I mean REALLY apologize.' The answer I received was that 'you can't just keep apologizing, you will lose respect.' I sat there shocked, with my mouth wide open knowing that I was making the right decision leaving the borg...
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  71

  Knocking forum is now open on PBS website

  by Jourles in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here we go folks.

  a newly opened forum for knocking is now open on pbs's website.

  let's not let the jw's overrun this with crap.

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  bavman

  I have to say. I think the discussion going on there right now is one of the most interesting things I have seen in a long time. Ex-dubs and active-dubs actually talking...
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  25

  Inconvenient Watchtower Anagrams!

  by professor in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as you probably know, an anagram is made by taking all of the letters in a word or phrase and re-arranging them to spell something else.

  sometimes it can be humourously approprite what you can come up with.

  for instance, you can re-arrange the letters in.

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  bavman

  2 questions for you. How long did it take you to figure out all those anagrams and where were you for my last party?
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  14

  Before the Elder Arrangement

  by bavman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for you "old timers"...lol!

  what was procedure if someone seriously sinned and needed to confess?

  also, was there less disfellowshipping going on?

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  bavman

  HEY BAVMAN!! You fellow cheesehead! Didn't realize this was your Topic. I thought you were an old-timer too?? Have a good one! ~~

  Naw...I was around quite awhile especially since I was a born-in but I would consider myself as more of a middle-timer I guess....I was born about the time this arrangement came into place. I heard all the stories and what the society wrote about it but I don't have any actual experience myself about the time before the "arrangement".

  Thanks for all the comments!
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  14

  Before the Elder Arrangement

  by bavman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for you "old timers"...lol!

  what was procedure if someone seriously sinned and needed to confess?

  also, was there less disfellowshipping going on?

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  bavman

  For you "old timers"...lol! What was procedure if someone seriously sinned and needed to confess? Who would they go to? Also, was there less disfellowshipping going on?
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  18

  Matt. 10:34-42 Proves the JWs Are the True Religion

  by Undecided in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  christ came with a sword to break up families if they don't follow the line.

  he is all that matters.

  you have to reject your families if they don't follow jesus(jehovah according to jws) so this proves they are right.

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  bavman

  Here's a couple different interpretations of this scripture from Wikepedia:

  Interpretations

  Advocating violence

  Some Christians and non-Christians believe that in these passages Jesus was advocating the use of violence. Applying a literal interpretation, they take the word "sword" to mean a literal metalsword and, by extension, warfare. In that case "division", as used in the verse from the Book of Luke, would tend to mean strife and war. For Christians accepting this interpretation, these passages may be seen as part of a justification for just wars and capital punishment. For non-Christians accepting this interpretation—particularly those who are philosophically opposed to violence—the Matthew and Luke passages are often seen as evidence of a moral deficiency in Jesus's teachings and therefore in Christianity. Many non-Christians go even further, claiming that this verse contradicts other teachings of Jesus, and therefore conclude that since the Bible is not self-consistent Christianity must be false.

  Predicting violence

  Other Christians hold that Jesus is using the word "sword" as a metaphor to describe the division that his message would bring between those who accept it and those who reject it. A further and more mystical interpretation represents a personal conflict, or evolution, as in a rebirth. In the context of the passage, Jesus was warning his disciples. Whether internal or external, conflict will come for Christians. "It will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah than for them."

  They conclude that this division between righteous and unrighteous is the "sword" which Jesus brought. And as a result of this division:

  "Brother will deliver up brother to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death," indicating that the message would divide families between those who accepted the message and those who rejected it.

  Rather than advocating violence, Jesus was warning his disciples that they would encounter violence from those unwilling to accept the Truth. Nowhere in the passage does he instruct them to harm anyone. On the contrary, he instructs them to heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out demons, and explicitly tells them to be "as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves." These are all instructions consistent with his message of love and grace. He does not command them to resort to violence with those who reject the message. On the contrary, he tells them to leave the homes of those who reject them, because God alone will be the judge of those who reject the Truth.

  This interpretation that the Truth will cause division between those who accept it and those who reject it is also reflected in John 1:10-13 (RSV), which reports of Jesus:

  "He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not. He came to his own home, and his own people received him not. But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God."

  See also Rejection of Jesus.

  A similar theme appears in Romans 1:20-21 (RSV):

  "Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened."

  In the above passage, Paul (the author of Romans) does not advocate violence against the wicked. On the contrary, he indicates that the worst punishment for the sins of wicked is to turn them over to their own desires, because the wicked are perfectly capable of destroying themselves.
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  60

  Does The Memorial Mean ANYTHING To You???

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just wondering.

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  bavman

  This is the third I have missed. Since I don't believe in the god/man anymore I see no point.
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  33

  Is this where I went wrong in my marriage?!

  by deeskis in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  just got this email of a magazine article from 1955. .

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  bavman

  For as much as it is commented on that the Watchtower taught women to be like that I sure never notied my ex JW wife acting that way.
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  28

  Just finished The God Delusion

  by Qcmbr in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ..and found myself agreeing with 95% of what he said.

  well who would have thought.

  i would recommend everyone should read this.

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  bavman

  I really enjoyed reading "The God Delusion" and also "Letters to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris. I agreed with much of both of the books however I don't agree with the assesment they make that all religion should go. That moderate and liberal religion allows conservative fundamentalism to exists. I find that too simplistic and actually I get the impression they haven't spent very much time really delving into spirtuality themselves. Dawkins certainly does a wonderful job of explaining biological evolution and I love his books for that however I find him to go too far to one extreme in blasting all religion.
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  19

  If Al Gore was elected in 2000, would 9/11 happened?

  by free2beme in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was thinking about this today, as al gore did win the popular vote and lost because of how the electoral college works.

  so people like to blame 9/11 on bush, and fahrenheit 9/11 really tried to make it look like bush.

  i remember when the movie, "the road to 9/11" came out, clinton was having a fit that it showed the problems with 9/11 started while he was in office.

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  bavman

  If Gore had been elected 9/11 may have still happened however his response would have been much different. He would have been focused on bringing the perp to justice by going into Afghanistan and not get sidetracked by going off to an adventure in Iraq. He would not have spread fear to the American people but instead sanity. He would have been serious about security without invading people's personal lives. Our national debt would still be shrinking and the victims of Katrina would be getting appropriate help. (SIGH)