guess i have been out of the loop for a while!
that post about being denied priveledges if one decides to get a vasectomy is just too much.
i am truly appalled at the presumptiousness of these people who think they can control their followers to this degree.
On a related note, could someone please explain to me the major changes that started affecting the org. at the beginning of this year? I got just a whiff of it from my still active parents...I know it was all over the "worldly" news media, but I never actually saw any articles on it.
Thanks
there is a phenomenon in dub dom that i have always hated.
the circuit/district convention.. people will spend hard earned money, use up any vacation they may have to travel to a city they don't really have any particular reason to see to sit for entire days and listen to the same b.s.
they could sit and listen to at the meetings in their home kingdom hall.
Thirdson,
Yes, I was at Rochester last summer. I attended a total of 20 min, got nauseous (panic!) and proceeded to wander through the halls eyeing the attendants menacingly. You ever get to see the apostates outside of the arena? I've seen the attendants try in the most desperate manner to keep them away from the site, calling the police, etc. I remember standing by those windows on the second floor of the arena watching a circle of attendants carefully surround the apostate preaching on the lawn so no one could get within close range! And this guy was really goin at it, too! Yelling all over the place and waving his bible in the air. But inside, there was just a row of witnesses all lined up by the windows watching in wonder at this guy, hell it was more entertaining than the sessions!
I think everyone's right, I shouldn't go again. But I am drawn irresistably to them...I just can't explain it.
in her book the surrendered wife, california housewife laura doyle advises married women to submit to their husbands in all circumstances.
she says that the man should take absolute control in every imaginable situation, and that the woman should be passive, always giving way to her husband.
she should give her husband all of her salary, and if she gets a little bit back to spend, well, she should be very grateful to her lord and master for his kindness.. over on h20, pro-witness poster flair claims that women need discipline just like children do.
Englishman,
I just happened to see that interview with Laura Doyle on Nightline one evening as I was flipping through the channels, and I was appalled! The woman actually claims she is a feminist, and that she feels to let the man control everything saved her marriage and that she's totally happy now. (A-hem, excuse me, but that is complete bulls#$%)
As for me, I was sick and tired of my stepdad's ordering the rest of us around like slaves while he sat on his "throne." He would use scriptures to justify his treatment of us and our mother, and I would get so angry that my mother never said a word back..obviously she felt she couldn't defend herself to a scripture in front of "impressionable" children. When I got out of the house I was determined not to let the same thing happen in my marriage, and that was a big part of the reason I married a "worldly" guy!
BTW, my Mom is still an active witness but has gone back to school and is going to be working for the first time ever! Boy was Dad ticked!
there is a phenomenon in dub dom that i have always hated.
the circuit/district convention.. people will spend hard earned money, use up any vacation they may have to travel to a city they don't really have any particular reason to see to sit for entire days and listen to the same b.s.
they could sit and listen to at the meetings in their home kingdom hall.
eyes_opened, I am still laughing at your story (I could really identify!!) Ever notice that those programs make really crappy fans? Especially when it was over a hundred degrees, it was like fanning yourself with a postage stamp!
How come my cong. never got to do a drama?? Oh well, I guess we just weren't imporant enough...
On a different note, last summer I attended my last DA. I had a spiritual experience that left me with the crazy idea that I needed to go to the DA to settle things in my mind, so to speak. I realized for the first time that I was a real outsider, and that it was just the same old boring stuff that got repeated again and again. I ended up spending most of the time in the Barnes n Noble connected to the skyway of the arena, reading a Margaret Atwood book called "The Handmaiden's Tale." Its a pretty sick and frightening tale of how religion can be taken to an extreme.
Anyone out there read that book?
So then why, why do I keep having nightmares (about once a week!) that I am back at the District Convention??? Do I have to go back yet another year to get some message that i missed? What is going on here??
ive not been to a meeting in five years probably.
yet my husband still goes and i always envision him going in and the hardy handshakes he gives, greeting and being greeted, sitting there with all those suits with the secrets hidden inside, and all those pretty dresses hiding the pain.
if i wasnt disassociated, i wonder if i would be bolder, speak up, be honest with the "friends" instead of toeing the company line.
Mim, that was a very interesting story, and I must admit I feel very similarly to you. I will be graduating this semester with my undergraduate degree in social work, and feel very driven to help others, both witness and nonwitness. I also married a nonJW after being raised in the truth and have a four year old boy.
Would you consider posting on the board or emailing me a copy of some of your previous work?
p.s., I used to count paragraphs in the WT, and also I would try to make up words and sentences using the letters found in each paragraph!
Best of luck to you with your project! BTW, how are you planning on obtaining your sample? Are you going to be interviewing women who are in or out of the organization? This could be tricky. (maybe you'll have to do observational research)
at the 1994 district convention in bismark, north dakota, (could possibly have been 93) my sister wrote a note to her friend and tossed it in the garbage.
the note contained a discussion about going to boy's hotel rooms after the sessions ended, and other troublesome activities, including lying to the parents about what my sister and her friend were doing.. presumably, an attendant found this note in the garbage and turned it into the elders.
on the last talk of the last day of the convention, the note was read out loud to the entire audience, along with the warning that "whoever you are, we will find you.
I must admit the story does sound unbelievable and not congruent with your typical district convention. But, I assure you, this is not an "urban legend." Believe me, I would like to convince myself that this never happened.
Is there anyone with a connection to any higher-ups at the WBTS? If so, they may be able to verify my story. They had probably known for years about the after sessions parties but been unable to find concrete evidence that this was going on.
I am aware that the reading of the note deviated from the normal program. The last talk of the final day of convention is usually a pep talk for everyone in attendance, where new stats are read, and there are stories of encouragement from other countries around the world. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the last talk usually given by the visiting Bethelite? If so, than that was the person who read the note! (At the time, I was too shocked to pay attention!)
Xandit: I challenge you to follow this one all the way up!
ive not been to a meeting in five years probably.
yet my husband still goes and i always envision him going in and the hardy handshakes he gives, greeting and being greeted, sitting there with all those suits with the secrets hidden inside, and all those pretty dresses hiding the pain.
if i wasnt disassociated, i wonder if i would be bolder, speak up, be honest with the "friends" instead of toeing the company line.
Doubtingsister,
I'm from MN/USA. I don't think its happening on the same scale to women who are not JW's. I don't really know or understand what is causing this outbreak, but my guess is, if you feel so powerless in every aspect of your life (mentally, spiritually, etc.) then why not take power by becoming sick? Or perhaps its just a way of the body sending out a warning signal, (as it does in the panic attacks.)
Almost all of the sisters who I know that have these diseases/conditions are elder's wives, PO's wives, or in some way connected to a higher up in the organization. Perhaps their bodies are just unable to keep up with all the high demands the org. places on them. But if this is the case, then why is it only happening to women? Any thoughts on this, doubtingsiser?
ive not been to a meeting in five years probably.
yet my husband still goes and i always envision him going in and the hardy handshakes he gives, greeting and being greeted, sitting there with all those suits with the secrets hidden inside, and all those pretty dresses hiding the pain.
if i wasnt disassociated, i wonder if i would be bolder, speak up, be honest with the "friends" instead of toeing the company line.
I too also had panic attacks at the KH, for years. One of my cousins who had not been into the hall for about 30+ years also had one when he was attending our grandmother's funeral. I have talked with people who have came out of fundamentalist religions/cults who have had similar experiences.
I believe that there is a real mind/body connection here. Our minds and spirits recognized that we were putting ourselves into a harmful and/or dangerous situation. The panic attacks were a message that something was not right.
I also believe that there are other witnesses out there, esp. women, who manifest similar, but more serious physical symptoms. Has anyone noticed, especially in the last ten years, an outbreak of chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromialgia among sisters in the cong? I know many sisters who have been completely debilitated, unable to even leave the house.
Any others of you who have noticed this? or is it only in my area?
Also, Mim:
I would be very interested in reading your work. Have you done any other projects on witnesses and women or is this your first one? I too have considered this a possible topic for research in the future. (I will be attending graduate school this fall.)
can you remember that distinct moment in your life when you suddenly knew that your time as a jw was truly over?.
for me, that moment came several years after the removal of my privileges in the congregation when i admitted to having known my then fiance in a way that was not fitting for a ministerial servant.. i was quickly stripped of my 2 servants jobs, group study conducting, pioneer status, public talk giving and praying in the kh.
i was also forbidden to ever be alone with the lady concerned.. about 15 months later i was assigned a public talk, after 30 minutes i dried up.
Trevor,
Thanks for the heckling tips! Hope i'll get the guts to try it someday. LOL!!
can you remember that distinct moment in your life when you suddenly knew that your time as a jw was truly over?.
for me, that moment came several years after the removal of my privileges in the congregation when i admitted to having known my then fiance in a way that was not fitting for a ministerial servant.. i was quickly stripped of my 2 servants jobs, group study conducting, pioneer status, public talk giving and praying in the kh.
i was also forbidden to ever be alone with the lady concerned.. about 15 months later i was assigned a public talk, after 30 minutes i dried up.
One more thing: since I've been coming to this board I have the strangest urge to back to the KH again! I can't explain it! Maybe I feel the need to start causin more trouble and stirrin things up.
I have a vivid memory of one time at the KH during Watchtower study, a disfellowshipped man who had been inactive for some time stood up and yelled in response to a paragraph "IS THIS NEW LIGHT????" He was quickly ushered out by the elders! I still remember that and laugh about it to this day.
Any others of you who have felt similarly?
