Posts by reslight2

143

Thought Control (A simple test for JW's)

by TD in

jw
friends

in george orwell's novel 'nineteen eighty-four' the capitulation of the principal protagonist is portrayed in his willingness to assent to the proposition that two and two make five.

once he had denied objective reality, his mental conquest was complete and he was no longer truly the master of his own mind.

nineteen eighty-four is in many ways, a very depressing read.. a charge commonly leveled at jehovah's witnesses is that the type of mind control envisioned by orwell has been and continues to be used on them.

reslight2

Juan Viejo2: The problem with the WT Society is that they equate "new light" with telling lies about the "old light." By saying that Russell and his followers "were looking forward to 1914," when in fact they were really looking to 1881, 1884, and back at 1799, is not "new light" - it's lying!

I can say that Russell was looking forward to 1914 as the end of the Gentile Times and the beginning of the time of trouble (at least from 1904 on to 1914). He died believing that the time of trouble had indeed begun in 1914. He certainly was not looking forward to 1914 as Christ's return.

On the other hand, there was no centralized controlling organization in the days of Russell, and many of Russell's associates had differing opinions about the times of the Gentiles. Some were claiming that the Gentiles Times would end in October of 1915, not October of 1914. Some others believed the Gentile Times would end in 1933. Russell, while he gave his reasons for disagreeing with those conclusions, allowed for such disagreements with him.

Even the Edgars (John and Morton) disagreed with Russell in some respects, but Russell even allowed announcements of the Edgars publications to be presented in the Watch Tower.

There were also many ideas being presented amongst the Bible Students before 1914 about how long the "time of trouble" would last after 1914, and what to expect in 1914 or thereafter. Many of the differrence opinions were published in the pages of the Watch Tower. Russell in 1904 mentioned the Edgars thought of one year but rejected that, stating that we have no scripture to support the one year conclusion. In 1905, in the pages of the Watch Tower, Russell presented two differring opinions about how long the "time of trouble" would last, that of the Edgars, who presented the parallet that would allow it one year, from October of 1914 to October of 1915, and another of U. G. Lee., who presented a parallelt that allowed for six years, thus ending the "time of trouble" in 1920. (At times after that, Russell seemed to favor the one year theory, but at the same time he allowed for other opinions.) Both of these opinions proved to be wrong, but the point is that Russell was not dogmatic about what to expect in 1914, or 1915, or 1920, or 1933, etc. He said that he allowed others to have their views, and admitted the possibility that he could be wrong in his calculations and expectations.

Nevertheless, I along with many other Bible Students, do believe he was right in the expectation that "the time of trouble" was to begin in 1914, and that we are still in that "time of trouble" to this day. On the other hand, there are also many Bible Students who have many other opinions about 1914. A true Bible Student will be like Russell was, and not seek bind all other brothers and sisters in Christ to their own theories in this matter, for such is sectarianism. All things will be cleared up eventually in God's own due time.

143

Thought Control (A simple test for JW's)

by TD in

jw
friends

in george orwell's novel 'nineteen eighty-four' the capitulation of the principal protagonist is portrayed in his willingness to assent to the proposition that two and two make five.

once he had denied objective reality, his mental conquest was complete and he was no longer truly the master of his own mind.

nineteen eighty-four is in many ways, a very depressing read.. a charge commonly leveled at jehovah's witnesses is that the type of mind control envisioned by orwell has been and continues to be used on them.

reslight2

"Why then, do the nations not realize and accept the approach of this climax of judgment? It is because they have not heeded the world-wide advertising of Christ's return and his second presence. Since long before World War I Jehovah's witnesses pointed to 1914 as the time for this great event to occur." (The Watchtower June 15, 1954 p. 370)

This is dated 1954, but just recently this claim was made in one the forums by one the JWs; so the effect of this kind of distortion of historical fact continues in the minds of the JWs, and often spills over even to others who are not associated with the JWs.

There are at least two things wrong with this quotes.

(1) There was no "Jehovah's Witnesses" organization, nor any members of any such organization in existence before World War I. The WTS represented no such controlling organization in the days of Russell. No "Jehovah's Witnesses" organization; "Jehovah's Witnesses" could not have been preaching anything at all before World War I.

(2) There was no one at all associated with the Watch Tower Society that I know of before World War I who was pointing to 1914 as the time for "the great event", Christ's return and his second presence. Russell was certainly not pointing to 1914 as the time for Christ's return, since he believed Christ had already returned in 1874. Russell, however, was never associated with the Jehovah's Witnesses organization, and he actually preached against such an organization. Not only that, the Gospel (Good News) that Russell preached was almost the very opposite of that being preached by the JWs.

4

Charles Taze Russell's Religion of Quackery

by thetrueone in

there have been a few more videos on youtube pertaining to c t russell and his watchtower society publishing company.. here are some that i thought were amusing and informative.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaecww9ox9m&nr=1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nghzmch5_3q&feature=player_embedded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaxbbvvoeeq&feature=related.

reslight2

Video #1

Charles Taze Russell, although among the founders of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, never believed in a "visible organization" of God on earth, as do the Jehovah's Witnesses. The Jehovah's Witnesses' organization was formed after Russell died.

http://ctr.reslight.net/2010/01/11/true-church-searches.html

Nothing wrong with Russell's statements concerning the Great Pyramid; what is the point?

Yes, there is good evidence that the angels who sinned (2 Peter 2:4,5) before the flood became the gods of Egyptian and Grecian mythology.

Russell is correct in that ancient Egyptian Abydos tablet does trace back to Adam, thus verifying the Biblical account; so what is the point?

http://www.dawnbible.com/2000/0010-hl.htm

Nevertheless, as Russell also pointed out:

Isaiah 19:14 Yahweh has mixed a spirit of perverseness in the midst of her; and they have caused Egypt to go astray in every work of it, as a drunken man staggers in his vomit.-- World English.

Egypt, like many other ancient nations, although having a root to God's promise of Genesis 3:15, perverted that promise to idolatrous purposes.

Except that one believe that the Bible itself is quackery, I see nothing in the first video that would indicate that Russell was presenting anything that could be considered quackery.

125

Religion and Cults

by alice.in.wonderland in

i've heard certain people here refer to jehovah's witnesses as a mind-control cult, high-control cult; theories perpetrated for how long i don't know, but at least since the days of ray franz.

i had spent nearly forty years as a full time representative, serving at every level of the organizational structure.

the last fifteen years i had spent at the international headquarters, and the final nine of those as a member of the worldwide governing body of jehovah's witnesses.

reslight2

Watchtower "Miracle" Wheat

An example of the latter can be found in the infamous case of Pastor Russell's "Miracle Wheat" cited in Dr. Walter Martin's, Kingdom of the Cults, (pp. 40-42, 1985 ed.)

The "miracle wheat" was not "Pastor Russell's" miracle wheat. The wheat was discovered by Kenneth Stoner, who was not even associated with the Bible Students movement.

"After the `work' had been well started here, `Pastor' Russell's Watch Tower publication advertized wheat seed for sale at $1.00 a pound (quite expensive in that day).

And yet, this was 25 cents less per pound than Mr. Stoner had been selling the wheat.

"It was styled `Miracle Wheat,' and it was asserted that it would grow five times as much as any other brand of wheat.

The one who "styled" the wheat "miracle wheat" was either Stoner or one of his associates. None of the Bible Students produced the name for the wheat.

"There were other claims made for the wheat seed, and the followers were advised to purchase it, the proceeds to go to the Watch Tower and be used in publishing the `Pastor's' sermons.

Russell never made any claims for the wheat, nor did he "advise" anyone to purchase the wheat. He did put notices in the Watch Tower to effect that some of the Bible Students were offering the wheat for sale.

Dr. Martin reproduced from microfilm on file in New York the following dates and titles from relevant articles of The Brooklyn Daily Eagle all published in January of 1913:

Not a very good source. The Brookly Eagle did everthing they could think of to pervert, distort and misrepresent practically every fact they found.

Miracle Wheat Scandal (1/1/ 1913, p. 1-2); Testimony of Russellite Beliefs (1/22/13, p. 2); Testimony on Wheat (1/23-24/1913, p. 3).

Financial statements proving Russell's absolute control, were made by (Watch Tower) Secre¬tary-Treasurer Van Amberg who was quoted as saying, "...We are not responsible to anyone for our expenditures. We are responsible only to God," (1/25/13, p. 16).

Every Board of Directors and officers of any corporation are responsible for the expenditures of they are being made; however, the Van Amberg adds that they are responsible only to God. Van Amberg did not say that Russell had "absolute control."

Government experts testify on "Miracle Wheat" and ascertain beyond doubt that it is not miraculous or overly excellent (1/27/13, p. 3); Prosecution and Defense sum-up. Russell assailed but not present to hear it (1/28/13, p. 2); Russell loses libel suit (1/29/13, p. 16).

In reality the Eagle presented only one witness who presented affividavits of people whom he could not name. On the other hand, many different farmers had provided their testimony on behalf of "miracle wheat."

Some modern Jehovah's Witnesses may wish to minimize the significance of the "Miracle Wheat" claiming that the profits from its sales went to the Watchtower Society and not Russell himself.

I am not with the Jehovah's Witnesses (nor was Charles Taze Russell), but it is indeed truth that Russell did not profit from the sale of miracle wheat.

However as Martin points out, Russell owned 990 of the 1,000 shares of Watchtower Society stock. By this figure, 99% of every "contribution" for "Mira¬cle Wheat" was in effect a contribution to Russell himself.

Which is incorrect, since there were no capital shares of the Watch Tower Society ever issued at all.

Before going to court, The Brooklyn Eagle made this claim:

"The Eagle goes even further and declares that at the trial it will show that `Pastor' Russell's religious cult is nothing more than a money-making scheme," (Ibid).

This they did by perverting, distorting and misrepresenting practically anything they could find.

While the motives of Russell can only be judged by God Himself, few would argue that such "Miracle Wheat" claims today would be more at home in the National Enquirer than in the Watchtower - a magazine claiming to be produced by God's only true organization on the earth.

While the motives of the editors of the Eagle can only be judged by God Himself, the perversions, distortions and misrepresentation of facts that the Eagle presented would more at home in tabloids that are not too concerned with the facts rather than in a newspaper that should be actually concerned with the facts. Russell, however, did not publish the magazine The Watch Tower as "produced by God's only true organization on earth." Russell did not believe in an organization such as the Jehovah's Witnesses. However, should one also think that the claims made for the Borlaug's "miracle wheat" to unworthy of credence?
http://ctr.reslight.net/2010/02/18/borlaugs-wheat.html

If today's US Postal regulations against false advertizing and mail fraud had been in effect at the time, perhaps Russell would have lost more than a libel case.

The biggest reason Russell lost his suit against the Eagle is not because the Eagle had proven any fraud on Russell's part, but because Russell did not prove malicious intent on the part of the Eagle. Indeed, much of what Russell had to prepared as evidence in his case was never presented in court.

http://ctr.reslight.net/2009/03/27/miracle-wheat.html
http://ctr.reslight.net/2009/06/16/reply-to-critics.html

http://ctr.reslight.net/2010/01/24/a-great-battle.html

47

SELF-TESTING for the influences of MIND-CONTROL

by Terry in

jw
friends

if you have been "brain washed" the control of your thinking has been wrested away from you and diverted.. .

hidden cues have replaced the ordinary path of logical analysis when examining your world.. .

think of this like a detour sign on a highway.

reslight2

[[Russell: deliverance....Armageddon...life in heaven...]]

Russell's view of the "deliverance" was totally different from that of the JWs. Russell believed that not only "believers" are delivered, but that all the world of mankind will be delivered in the age to come. The main reason he started printing the Watch Tower magazine was to defend the "ransom for all", the teaching that Adam and every man, woman, child, baby, infant, etc. who descended from Adam will be blessed in the age to come because Jesus died for all. Thus, probably the main theme that can be found in his works is that of the "ransom for all." Bible Students today still hold to his central teaching, whereas Rutherford led his "new organization" into rejecting that teaching.

Russell's view of "Armageddon" was also different than that of the JWs. Russell did not have any thought of millions of people being eternall destroyed; instead, he viewed Armageddon as a time for disciplining the nations so as to humble them in preparation for the blessing of the heathen in the kingdom age.

Russell believed the church would have life in heaven, but that the regenerated world will live forever on the earth. Russell believed that the "other sheep" that Jesus spoke of will be those of the world who become his sheep in the age to come, and who will live forever on the earth, not in heaven.

42

I have found the truth about the truth now...

by truthseeker12 in

i am a third generation of jehovah witnesses, even if i never got baptized.

however, they disfellowship me when i was around 15. this was around 1987. even if i have not been in the "truth" for so many years it has affected all my life in many ways not only negative.

a couple of years ago i thought the events in the world maybe proved to me that they were right after all.

reslight2

truthseek12 wrote:

Eustace Mullins are talking about "Jehovah" in one of his books,
and I am sure Fritz Springmeier is talking about it. I have not
yet found the book "Be wise as serpents" however, I have read
the book "Watchtower and the masons".

There are many people who write all kinds of things. I have read Springmeier's books, and, as far as Russell is concerned, he quotes many things out of context and contorts and distorts what is said to make it appear to support his theories. Likewise, with the symobolisms that Russell used, Springmeier using his spirit of human imagination to connect this with the Freemasons.

Although I do not agree with all of his conclusions, I would recommend that you read Raymond Franz' books, "Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom".
http://biblestore.reslight.net/index.php?s=raymond+franz

I haven't read anything of Eustace Mullins, so I cannot comment on him.

Christian love,

Ronald

42

I have found the truth about the truth now...

by truthseeker12 in

i am a third generation of jehovah witnesses, even if i never got baptized.

however, they disfellowship me when i was around 15. this was around 1987. even if i have not been in the "truth" for so many years it has affected all my life in many ways not only negative.

a couple of years ago i thought the events in the world maybe proved to me that they were right after all.

reslight2

truthseeker12 stated:

Thank you for the welcome messages and yes I really like
education the only problem is I can't stop reading now:-
I am, for the moment, exploring gods name, and I think they
even have not said it right either.

I am happy to know that you have come out of the sectarian bonds of the JW organization. Many make a big deal of having the "correct" pronunciation of the holy name, whereas linguistical differences prohibit such a thought. The English form "Jehovah" is based on the Masoretic text, which many believes the vowel points were deliberated altered to remind one not to pronounce the Holy Name, although I know of no one who does not give some kind of pronunciation to the Holy Name, whether they pronounce it Yahweh, Yehowah, or change the pronunication to titles such as Adodnai, the Lord, God, Power, the Eternal, Ha-Shem, etc. "Yahweh" comes to us based on some ancient Greek manuscripts. Thus, the two most common forms of the Holy Name in English are "Yahweh" and "Jehovah". Trying to determine the original pronunication of the Holy Name will only prove fatal, short of a direct revelation from the Most High Himself, which I do not expect until the Millennial age; but then there is no scripture that says the Holy Name has to be pronounced only as it was originally pronounced -- this is man's thoughts.

http://name.reslight.net/
-- I have written much more on this, and will, Yahweh willing, be posting more on the site soon.

Christian love,
Ronald

42

I have found the truth about the truth now...

by truthseeker12 in

i am a third generation of jehovah witnesses, even if i never got baptized.

however, they disfellowship me when i was around 15. this was around 1987. even if i have not been in the "truth" for so many years it has affected all my life in many ways not only negative.

a couple of years ago i thought the events in the world maybe proved to me that they were right after all.

reslight2

garyneal asked:

Ronald,
Are you a Bible student?

Yes.

42

I have found the truth about the truth now...

by truthseeker12 in

i am a third generation of jehovah witnesses, even if i never got baptized.

however, they disfellowship me when i was around 15. this was around 1987. even if i have not been in the "truth" for so many years it has affected all my life in many ways not only negative.

a couple of years ago i thought the events in the world maybe proved to me that they were right after all.

reslight2

truthseeker12 stated:

Last but not least Charles Taze Russell, Pennsylvania and JF Rutherford could not be people or places that god the creator chose for waken up to the Christian church...this is impossible. It is very easy to see the tracks to Masonic, Satanism, and pagan origin.

What are you referring to as "track to Masonic, Satanism, and pagan origin"? Specifically, what Masonic, Satanism, and paganism are you referring to?
http://ctr.reslight.net/?tag=freemasons

truthseeker12 stated:

My conclusion so far is that the true belief is to get out of all religions and accept Jesus Christ as your only savior

This is precisely the message that Charles Taze Russell (who was never associated with the JW organization) preached, although in reality, many of his associates began to treat the Bible Students Association itself as another denomination.
http://ctr.reslight.net/index.php?s=%22true+church%22

Christian love,

Ronald

37

What Are Your Favorite WT Quotes/Teachings? Most Ridiculous or Hilarious Ones.

by mentallyfree31 in

when you look back over the 130 year history of wt, what is the most bizzare/ridiculous/hilarious/absurd teaching or quotes that you have found?.

one of the ones i find hilarious is during the beth-sarim affair, rutherford announced that the world was laughing and mocking them because they don't believe the resurrection is going to come to pass when they said it was.

rutherford went on to say in effect "we will show them when people start coming back from the graves"... lol.

reslight2

To me, the most ridiculous statements I have read in the JWs' Watchtower is that concerning the idea that they had the truth concerning the "ransom sacrifice" in 1918, and thus God chose their "organization" as his representative.

According to the modern-day Watchtower leaders, Messiah "came to inspect his slaves in 1918." (The Watchtower, March 15, 1990, page 13) According to this same Watchtower:

"Well, by then [1918], who had given sincere truth-seekers the correct understanding of the ransom sacrifice....?"

The answer given is:

"The facts show that it was the group of anointed Christians associated with the publishers of the magazine Zion's Watch Tower and Herald Christ's Presence...."

(One should note that in 1918 that although Rutherford seemed to be proceeding with his new "organization" ideas, there was actually no "Jehovah's witnesses" organization in 1918.) The statement given would lead one to the conclusion that the Watchtower today is not teaching the truth. How so? If The Watch Tower was printing the truth about the ransom-sacrifice in 1918, then what the modern-day Watchtower is teaching cannot possibly be true, since they are not teaching the same thing concerning the ransom sacrifice as was taught in 1918.

What is the teaching of The Watchtower of today concerning the ransom-sacrifice? The March 15, 1990 Watchtower answers:

"Jesus came `to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.' ( Mark 10:45 ) But who are the many? Adam is evidently excluded because he was a perfect man who deliberately chose to disobey God and died as unrepentant, willful sinner."

The article goes on to say:

"The course taken by each individual determines whether he will benefit from Jesus' sacrifice. Like Adam, the willfully wicked do not have the ransom merit and eternal life forced upon them. As Christ said: `He that exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; he that disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him.' ( John 3:36 )"

Thus The Watchtower of today would basically make all who disobey the Watchtower leaders [who supposedly represent Jesus] in this life as willfully wicked, and receiving no benefit from the ransom. (This disregards John 12:46-48 , which shows that those who disobey Jesus today will be judged in the resurrection day. In this life, the wrath, inherited from Adam, simply remains upon him.) Likewise, according to the present-day Watchtower leaders, Adam would receive no benefit from the ransom.

Now compare this with The Watch Tower of 1918 (August 15, 1918):

"When this ransom price shall have been formally delivered over to Justice in the end of this Gospel age, then, it will ... have been exchanged for Adam and his posterity, the world of mankind, all of whom will be immediately transferred by the Father to the Son, that the work of the Millennial Kingdom may begin. The ransom price is designed to bring to Adam and his race the earthly life and the earthly life-rights and honors which were lost in Eden through disobedience." (Italics added by me. See Reprints, page 6314)

Again in The Watch Tower of October 1, 1918 (Reprints, page 6337), we find this statement:

"As in the one man Jesus Christ both Adam and all his children will be justified from the original condemnation, that which came upon the human race because of Adam's disobedience."

Please note that in the two quotes above, from the early The Watch Tower in 1918 that the ransom is presented quite differently from that in 1990. In 1918 Adam and all his posterity are to benefit from the ransom. In 1990, according to present-day Watchtower leaders, Adam will receive no benefit from the ransom, nor will many billions of mankind living today that might be destroyed during the destruction of Satan's world.

A little reflection on the above should lead one to see that if Zion's Watch Tower was teaching the truth concerning the ransom in 1918, then what The Watchtower of today is teaching is false, for they do not teach the same thing. Of course, just because the whole world receives benefits from the ransom of Jesus does not mean that "everlasting life" will be "forced" upon them, so this argument is really a strawman argument against the "ransom for all." It only means that they will be given full opportunity to come into harmony with Yahweh and His Son, Jesus. Those of the world who then refuse will eventually be eternally destroyed in the second death at the end of the 1,000-Year Reign of Jesus when the Kingdom is returned to the Father. ( Revelation 20:7-9 ; Psalm 37:9 , 10 ; Matthew 25:41 , 46 ; 2 Thessalonians 1:9 , 10 ; 1 Corinthians 15:24 ) With The Watch Tower of 1918 I am in general agreement on this; therefore I am in disagreement with The Watchtower of modern times which would deny that Jesus gave his life as "a ransom for all." ( 1 Timothy 2:5 , 6 ) It is this "ransom for all" teaching that will actually vindicate Yahweh as not only the rightful ruler, but that his ways are best in all things. It is only through the "ransom for all" that all the wicked will come to know Yahweh. Psalm 83:18 ; Compare Ezekiel 16:62 , 63 .