ILoveTTATT2

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Posts by ILoveTTATT2

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  11

  JW History in Pictures #1

  by Wild_Thing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the death of a cult leader.

  the gaudy and ostentatiousness of the proceedings following the death of charles taze russell is really interesting to look at.

  i can't decide if it is further proof of how much of a cult they were, even back then, or how much they are just like other religions, like the catholics.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  Hi Wild thing,

  Thank you so much for posting! I had only seen the first and the third picture, where did you get the second and the fourth? Are they in some other WT publication?
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  6

  Brooklyn Eagle November 12, 1911: Shows that this cult has been breaking up families at least for 105 years

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am doing investigation on the early history of the bible students / jehovah's witnesses.

  one resource that is turning out to be extremely useful is the brooklyn eagle.. .

  the brooklyn eagle was a newspaper that had a lot of animosity against the watchtower society.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  By the way, $45,000 in 1911 comes out to $1,110,608.23 in 2016 dollars. So the Russellites managed to swindle at least $1M from this woman. This shows a man worried that his wife was going into a cult!!
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  6

  Brooklyn Eagle November 12, 1911: Shows that this cult has been breaking up families at least for 105 years

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am doing investigation on the early history of the bible students / jehovah's witnesses.

  one resource that is turning out to be extremely useful is the brooklyn eagle.. .

  the brooklyn eagle was a newspaper that had a lot of animosity against the watchtower society.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  I am doing investigation on the early history of the Bible Students / Jehovah's Witnesses. One resource that is turning out to be extremely useful is the Brooklyn Eagle.

  
  

  The Brooklyn Eagle was a newspaper that had a lot of animosity against the Watchtower Society. Who knows? Maybe there was an ex-Bible Student there...

  
  

  This appeared in the Brooklyn Eagle of November 12, 1911. It is so sad that even 105 years ago people could see that this cult destroys families (see after the "one more" paragraph)

  
  

  
  

  EACH RELIGIOUS EDITOR ANSWERS RUSSELL ATTACK

  
  

  Franklin P. Sellers Tells How He Presumably Incurred the Dislike of the "Pastor."

  DIDN'T PRINT SERMONS FREE.

  
  

  Tells of Call From Man Whose Tale of Sorrow Was Inspired by Russellism.

  
  

  Editor The Brooklyn Daily Eagle:

  
  

  At the risk of being still further slandered, I must set down two or three things which I know about the "Pastor" Russell outfit. I have been quiet long enough. The first thing I know is that this borough has been literally strewn with a certain copy of the Brooklyn Tabernacle People's Pulpit, in an article in which several slurring references are made to the religious editor of The Eagle by leaving off the last letter of his name and boldly charging that this paper has been sold by him. The writer of the article is well known, but I have no desire to answer such a ridiculous charge in face of the standing which I am proud of having among the clergy of Brooklyn and, in fact, of the United States, who are not purchasing newspaper mention any more than I am receiving pay, except in the way of recognition by my honorable employers. I do possess a watch, highly prized, which was given to me as a testimonial by five ministers of the gospel, whose names are held in high esteem throughout this country and the world.

  
  

  On the other hand, the religious editor of The Eagle has been approached not once, but many times, by agents of "Pastor" Russell, and his time taken up, hours together, in an endeavor to prove to him that the publication of "Pastor" Russell's sermons would add to the circulation of The Eagle at least 10,000 copies a week. I was told that I could have two columns a week at 25 cents a column. I had the temerity to say that that was too cheap, and this I suppose, increased his animus. It is not generally known, as acknowledged by Russell's agent, but it is true, that the only way In which the papers of New York City will print Pastor Russell's sermons, and this has been true for a year or more, is by his syndicate manager paying regular display advertisement rates, even if said sermons are dated Brooklyn, "On the Sea," London or elsewhere. The Eagle has charged for them, too, and probably made a sore spot in the Tabernacle outfit by so doing.

  
  

  Another thing I know. For very good reasons I never attended held by "Pastor" Russell in the Brooklyn Academy of Music, never wrote a [???] about any of his meetings, nor about "Miracle Wheat," and therefore have never written any "snicker" about "Pastor" Russell or any of his followers. I have boldly said to his agents that I did not believe in his doctrines and that I knew his "Millennial Dawn" book had caused many a domestic entanglement. I am a private citizen and have a right to criticise [sic] any public teacher, but I have no right to defame anybody in print, and have never done so, and would be ashamed to pen the "Billingsgate" which "Pastor" Russell's editor has written under the heading "An Eagle Transformed." I am quite sure, also that "'Pastor' Russell Interviewed" was never written by the "pastor" for he was on the sea, I ant given to understand, when it was dictated.

  
  

  Once more. Nearly two years ago a man of education came to see me one Sunday morning. He was from Chicago. His face bore marks of great trouble. He desired me to give him the names of some ministers who had previously held pastorates in Pittsburg, which city was the headquarters of the "Pastor" Russell outfit before finding it probably more comfortable to come to Brooklyn.

  
  

  My visitor, a true gentleman, had no harsh words for any one, but he was greatly distressed and was looking for a way out of it. He said that his married life had been supremely happy up to a year or two previously. There were two sons and two daughters. He had money in his own right; his wife had money in hers, they being about equally rich. It had been the custom, he said, for him to maintain in the household, as he was in a provision business, and, it was agreed that neither was to use the other's surplus, about $45,000 each, but that his should go to the boys and hers to the girls. But the wife through constant visits from one of the Russell agents, became enamored of the doctrines and told him her money would be given to "Pastor" Russell. This distressed him, and he tried to dissaude [sic] her on account of the agreement between them. Several conferences over the matter were held, but to no avail, and finally the wife said that if the husband did not stop talking about it she would give her money to Russell before she died.

  
  

  The man was anxious to know what could be done. The sequel I never learned. I made bold to ask a Russell agent If the "pastor" would take money under such circumstances, and received the evasive answer that it would depend upon how the money was given. This was another way, probably, in which I got myself disliked and for which I am made subject to slanderous attacks. But the whole outfit is welcome. My standing is secure because I try to behave myself, and am succeeding very well and have never been in the courts.
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  63

  Evolution is a Fact #27 - Monkeys, Typewriters, Shakespeare, 747s etc.

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  most creationist arguments can be summarised as "complexity, complexity, complexity - therefore god".

  we have all heard the illustrations about the odds of (insert favourite example) evolving, being less than 10,000 monkeys typing macbeth by pure chance.

  evolution is not like that.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  Now we know who is doing the single "unlike" on this post! Great job Cofty!

  You helped me a while back when I was recently out of the JW's. I had NEVER read anything related to evolution before, and as an engineer, I used to think that ID was a reasonable explanation for things. It does take a lot of effort to understand evolution, but once I started reading the books that you recommended, particularly "The Blind Watchman" by Dawkins, where I believe he mentions this topic of the monkeys, but actually selecting the correct response.
  
  Just a suggestion: If someone doesn't know ANYTHING about evolution, I would suggest that the first book should be "Why Evolution is True". Dawkins was too hard for me to understand, I followed Coyne quite well.
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  32

  Strange sounds from the mens toilet ,late 80s early 90s

  by pleaseresearch in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so as a young boy bored and wanting to stretch my legs i would sometimes take a trip into the toilet just to get away from the main meeting room.

  did my little mind know what certain sounds were coming from behind the cubical?

  no.. but now in my 30s i'm fully aware what that sound was.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  Wow, masturbating in the Kingdom Hall? I never dared... I really thought the place was "sacred".
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  2

  Request-Has the 1967 Watchtower been scanned and does it include the commentary?

  by Atlantis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  request:.

  .. have the 1967 watchtowers been scanned and do they include the commentary information?.

  .. yes, the 1967 watchtowers have been scanned and the "commentary" information is included.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  What is this "commentary" about??
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  5

  Miracle Wheat: Was Russell really guilt-free regarding it? Did Rutherford have more to do with it than Russell?

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jim penton, in his book apocalypse delayed, barely touches on the miracle wheat episode.

  in a 300+ page book, this is what he says about it:"he was charged with financial chicanery, particularly in what came to be known as the miracle wheat episode.

  ... both the miracle wheat and ross cases deserve some comment.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  Here is the second part of that Bible Students Monthly which dealt with the Miracle Wheat. This is obviously Rutherford's style of writing. I placed in bold only a few things that caught my eye:
  
  "The articles published by it relative to "miracle" wheat and Pastor Russell's alleged connection therewith, have been so false and libelous that Pastor Russell, on the advice of his attorneys, has sued "The Eagle" for libel claiming $100,000 damages."
  
  This shows that Rutherford was heavily involved in this. Russell sued for libel, meaning that that what was claimed needed to be shown to be FALSE in order for the case to be won. If Rutherford didn't know that there was that condition in order to win a libel case in the US, then he was a either a really bad lawyer, or he was delusional. Probably both.
  
  "Pastor Russell,' and is recognized and addressed by such title, he being the leader, teacher and Pastor of thousands of Christian people who reside throughout said countries"
  
  Isn't Jesus supposed to be the leader of the congregation? The BSM explicitly said that Russell was the leader.

  "plaintiff has borne a high reputation for honesty, integrity, fair-dealing and truthfulness, and of being an honest and fearless preacher of the Gospel of truth"
  
  Right... Russell was NOT an honest man... and neither was Rutherford.

  
  

  "Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, a religious corporation, and President of the Peoples Pulpit Association, also a religious corporation, both of which said corporations are engaged"
  

  Granted, "religious corporations" are non-profit, but... the Watch Tower is truly a "business corporation" disguised as a religion.

  "six million volumes of which have been sold and placed in the hands of the people throughout the United States and foreign countries, which books are sold and distribbuted [sic] by the aforesaid religious corporations of which plaintiff is the President;"

  A religious corporation that sells books... sounds like a business to me!
  
  "that the good name, reputation and moral standing of plaintiff are absolutely essential to the proper and successful promulgation of the Gospel in the manner adopted and used by him as aforesaid;"
  
  That's the real reason for the suit. Rephrased: "Shut up! You're hurting the business!"
  
  "has received through the mails, insulting and insinuating letters and writings by reason thereof and has been seriously injured in his peace of mind and has been grievously disturbed and his feelings injured and has been held up to public ridicule and scorn, as a result of all of which plaintiff has suffered injury to his reputation, good name, fame and standing, all to his damage in the sum of one hundred thousand dollars.""
  
  Awww... poor baby! People are upset that you are selling a fraudulent product for exhorbitant prices, and that hurts your feelings. So much so, that you are suing for $2.5M in 2016 dollars. I guess Russell's feelings and reputation are that precious...

  
  
  Here is the complete article:
  
  

  BSM Vol. 3 No.11

  BROOKLYN EAGLE SUED FOR $100,000.00
  
  PASTOR RUSSELL APPEALS TO THE COURTS

  SEEKS REDRESS FOR ALLEGED CONTINUOUS LIBEL BY "THE EAGLE." - SEEKS TO DEFEND HIS HONORABLE NAME. - THE BROOKLYN ACADEMY OF MUSIC INSUFFICIENT TO ACCOMMODATE THE VAST THRONG DESIROUS OF HEARING THE TABERNACLE PASTOR JUST PRIOR TO HIS SAILING FOR ENGLAND.

  SHORTLY AFTER PASTOR RUSSELL removed to Brooklyn, "The Brooklyn Daily Eagle," for some unknown reason and without excuse, manifested an antipathy toward him. From time to time it has published scurrilous articles against him, the virility of which has increased to such an extent that further forbearance with this paper "has ceased to be a virtue."

  At the request of "The Eagle's" representatives Pastor Russell, and those connected with him in his work, have on several occasions furnished "The Eagle" with information concerning the nature and character of said work, but the same has been either ignored or so garbled by "The Eagle" as to make him and his work appear ridiculous, tending to hold him up to public contempt. The articles published by it relative to "miracle" wheat and Pastor Russell's alleged connection therewith, have been so false and libelous that Pastor Russell, on the advice of his attorneys, has sued "The Eagle" for libel claiming $100,000 damages.
  
  THE COMPLAINT
  The complaint made by the plaintiff through his attorneys, after setting forth that the defendant is a domestic corporation and has a large general circulation in New York and elsewhere, further says:
  
  "SECOND: That at the time of the publication hereinafter mentioned plaintiff was and still is, a resident of said Borough of Brooklyn, City of New York, and for more than thirty years last past, and at all the times herein-after mentioned, plaintiff has been and still is, engaged in preaching the Gospel to the people of the United States of America and Europe and elsewhere; that he is now and for some time past has been, the regularly elected Pastor of a large congregation of Christians at the Brooklyn Tabernacle, of the Borough of Brooklyn, City of New York, to whom he preaches at regular intervals and whom he serves as Pastor, having assistants who represent him in his absence; that he is also, and for some time has been, the regularly elected Pastor of a large congregation of Christian people at the London Tabernacle, of London, England, whom he serves as Pastor, and to whom he preaches at stated intervals, having assistants there to represent him during his absence from said congregation, and that he is and for several years past has been, popularly and favorably known throughout the United States of America and Europe and other countries as 'Pastor Russell,' and is recognized and addressed by such title, he being the leader, teacher and Pastor of thousands of Christian people who reside throughout said countries; that for many years past plaintiff has been and now is, the Editor of a Religious Journal, known as 'The Watch Tower,' which is published twice each month and circulated throughout the United States, Canada and European countries and is read by thousands of Christian people in said countries; that his sermons are published each week in a large number of newspapers throughout the United States, Canada, Great Britain and Australia, and have been so published for a long space of time, and as such minister of the Gospel, at the times hereinafter mentioned, and long prior thereto, plaintiff has borne a high reputation for honesty, integrity, fair-dealing and truthfulness, and of being an honest and fearless preacher of the Gospel of truth as set forth in the Holy Scriptures, and has always enjoyed the respect and confidence of the people in his own community and in the community at large, wherever his sermons have been heard or read; that he is and for many years past has been, the President of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, a religious corporation, and President of the Peoples Pulpit Association, also a religious corporation, both of which said corporations are engaged in spreading the Gospel and generally in religious and philanthropic work for the betterment of mankind, and which said religious corporations receive their support, both moral and financial, from Christian people living throughout the United States and Canada; that for some years past plaintiff has regularly written for periodicals and Magazines, religious articles dealing with Biblical questions which have been published throughout the United States; that plaintiff is the author of a certain series of religious works or books, published in six volumes, and which are known as "Studies in the Scriptures," a large quantity, to wit: six million volumes of which have been sold and placed in the hands of the people throughout the United States and foreign countries, which books are sold and distribbuted [sic] by the aforesaid religious corporations of which plaintiff is the President; that the good name, reputation and moral standing of plaintiff are absolutely essential to the proper and successful promulgation of the Gospel in the manner adopted and used by him as aforesaid; that all of his publications, compositions and writings aforesaid have been devoted exclusively to religious questions and doctrines; that during the period of time herein mentioned he has given, and is now giving, all of his time, energy, influence and strength to the preaching of the Gospel, both orally and by the printed page, etc.

  "THIRD: That on, prior and subsequent to the 23rd day of September, 1911. the defendant at divers [sic] times, published in its said newspaper, 'The Brooklyn Daily Eagle,' cerain [sic] articles concerning the sale of a certain seed wheat, and that the plaintiff was directly interested in the sale of 'Miracle Wheat' and derived a personal advantage therefrom.

  "FOURTH: That prior and subsequent to the 23rd day of September, 1911, the defendant at divers times published in its said newspaper, 'The Brooklyn Daily Eagle,' certain articles and cartoons or pictures concerning the conduct, management and existing conditions of a certain Bank in said City of New York known as the Union Bank, in which said articles it was charged or intimated that the directors, officers, managers or persons in some way connected with said Union Bank had violated their obligations to the depositors and patrons of said Bank and that said directors, officers, managers or persons in some way connected therewith, were guilty of a violation of the laws of the State of New York (in that they had defrauded the depositors and patrons of said Union Bank) and were criminally liable to prosecution for such misconduct, and that an investigation in-to the affairs of said Bank was being conducted, and that the District' Attorney of the County of Kings would present and had presented the facts concerning said Union Bank to the Grand Jury of Kings County, and that it was rumored that said Grand Jury had returned five indictments in connection with the affairs of said Bank for some criminal offense connected with the management of said Bank, and its affairs had become so malodorous that the defendant, in its said newspaper, named and designated said Union Bank as the 'Onion Bank.'

  "FIFTH: That on the 23rd day of September, 1911, and in the same issue of its said newspaper which contained an article concerning the official' investigation into the affairs of said Union Bank, aforesaid, the defendant, contriving and fraudulently intending to injure the plaintiff in his good name, fame and reputation, maliciously composed, printed, published and circulated of and concerning the plaintiff, a certain picture, drawing, photograph or cartoon, with inscriptions thereon, together with a certain article and words in connection therewith, in its said newspaper, 'The Brooklyn Daily Eagle,' so published and circulated throughout the Borough of Brooklyn, City and State of New York, and other places throughout the world.”

  Then follows a copy of the Cartoon and publication.

  "SIXTH: That the building shown in the picture, photograph, drawing or cartoon, aforesaid, is intended to represent and does represent the said Union Bank Building, and the words across the top of the door, to wit—'Onion Bank,' represent and were intended by defendant to represent said Union Bank; that the figure of the man standing in the door of said building, as represented and shown upon said picture, photograph, drawing or cartoon, represents and was intended by defendant to represent, some director or officer or person connected with said Union Bank calling out to an old man who appears In the street, as shown by said cartoon or picture; that the figure of said old man, as shown on said picture, photograph, drawing or cartoon, and which appears therefrom to be in the street in close proximity to said Union Bank, represents and was intended by defendant to represent the plaintiff herein, who, in said picture, photograph, drawing, cartoon or caricature, is represented as going through the streets carrying in his hand a package of 'Miracle Wheat,' and as a 'street hawker' crying out his wares, or goods for sale; and the words, 'You're wasting your time, come on in here,' appearing on said picture, photograph, drawing or cartoon, represented and were intended by defendant to represent some officer of said Union Bank, or some person connected with said Bank (who was engaged in defrauding its depositors and patrons), calling to and inviting plaintiff to cease selling wheat and come on in the bank and join others in defrauding its depositors and patrons, that his, plaintiff's time could be much better employed in said Bank and greater returns could be realized by plaintiff in engaging with those in the Bank in 'fleecing,' cheating and defrauding its patrons and depositiors [sic]; that the words, 'Easy Money Puzzle,' appearing on said picture, photograph, drawing or cartoon, were Intended by defendant to represent and do represent that both plaintiff and said Union Bank directors and officers were engaged in an unrighteous and unlawful scheme or business, and that plaintiff by misrepresentations, fraud and deception was obtaining 'easy money' or dishonest Money or tainted money from the people; that in connection with said picture, photograph, drawing or cartoon appear the following printed article or words: 'If Pastor Russell (meaning plaintiff) can get' a dollar ,a pound for 'Miracle Wheat,' what could he (meaning plaintiff) have got for Miracle stocks and bonds as a director of the old Union Bank'; that by said entire drawing, caricature, cartoon, picture and print, and the words printed in connection therewith and as a part thereof, defendant meant and intended to show and charge, and did represent and charge, and it was so understood by those who saw it, that plaintiff as a Minister of the Gospel, as a Pastor of Religious congregations of Christian people, was selling said 'Miracle Wheat' and as a 'street hawker' was going about the streets selling the same at a large price, and was thereby defrauding the people and by the use of a fraudulent scheme, trick or misrepresentation plaintiff was wrongfully obtaining from the people, in an easy, slick, deceptive and fraudulent manner, large sums of money for his own personal gain, and that plaintiff, because of his cunning and ability to manipulate a dishonest scheme enabling him to sell wheat at one dollar per pound, was wasting his time in so selling wheat when he might associate himself with dishonest men and engage in the fraudulent sale of stocks and bonds and thereby reap a far greater amount of dishonest money, and that if he, plaintiff, as the Pastor of a congregation of Christian people could fraudulently induce people to pay one dollar per pound for Miracle Wheat, he would succeed much better in engaging himself with a number of criminals in inducing the people to buy fraudulent stocks and bonds.

  "SEVENTH: That the statements and representations made, and attempted to be made and conveyed by said picture, drawing, caricature, cartoon or print and by various inscriptions that appear thereon, and by said words, article or reading matter published in connection therewith and as a part thereof, as aforesaid, were and are wholly false and were printed, edited, composed and published by the defendant maliciously and with a wrongful intent of injuring the plaintiff in his good name, fame and reputation and in his professional career as a Minister of the Gospel.

  "EIGHTH: That by reason of the foregoing, the plaintiff has been brought into scandal and reproach and has been held up to odium, scandal, disgrace and contempt among his neighbors, friends and the readers of his Journal, books and other writings and among his parishoners [sic] and members of his congregations, as well as his business and professional reputation as President of the Religious Societies aforesaid, and has received through the mails, insulting and insinuating letters and writings by reason thereof and has been seriously injured in his peace of mind and has been grievously disturbed and his feelings injured and has been held up to public ridicule and scorn, as a result of all of which plaintiff has suffered injury to his reputation, good name, fame and standing, all to his damage in the sum of one hundred thousand dollars."
  
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  7

  Worldwatch Institute vs Watching the World

  by berrygerry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  part of the "last days" in the bible teach book indicates that : "a report from the worldwatch institute states: “three times as many people fell victim to war in [the 20th] century as in all the wars from the first century ad to 1899.” more than 100 million people have died as a result of wars since 1914.

  "that seems to be quite the statement, given mankind's history of war, which, for the most part, seems to have only dimished since 1945.fact-checking that quote shows that, first of all, it is not a quote by the worldwatch institute, but is actually a paper written by one of its contributors (michael renner) in 1999.

  ( http://www.worldwatch.org/system/files/wp146.pdf ) additionally, that paper references a table (done by a different researcher) that indicates that the 20th century not only has the most war-related deaths, but far and away the greatest ratio of deaths at 44.4 per 1,000 population.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  Great research!!
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  10

  A Teenager Ran Away From Home to Get Away From the Witnesses ... in 1909

  by Wild_Thing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  okay .... i guess technically they weren't witnesses yet; they were just russellites.

  but i still think it is funny that teenagers were heading for the hills to run away from their nonsense ... even back then!.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  Is this from the Brooklyn Eagle by any chance?
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  27

  Damn it feels good to be free and on my own without the pressure to do more as a JW slave

  by No Longer a JW Brother in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i don't know where to begin but damn it feels so good to be free of mind control.

  i'm only officially out since this past december but i was out mentally for two hot years under the close watch of my batshit crazy psycho parents who bothered me every sunday to see what i thought about the meeting.

  it was necessary for me to lie through my teeth.

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  ILoveTTATT2

  Hey No Longer a Bro, welcome!

  are you by any chance from Canada?