did our letter-writing campaign work?
http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/watchtower.pdf.
here are some lovely instructions drafted by syn, and hosted by valis, on how to navigate to the site yourself.. http://www.sassquatch.com/syn/un_ngo_letter/.
The fact that this can be authenticated and is on the UN site is pretty big. That is really the big hurdle to any info.
I have a feeling this may flow pretty rapidly thru jw-land, ...as they are notorious for gossip and being able to be the first to break news....news, of course, that doesnt have the smell or trackings of apostates as the source...lol.
Axelspeed
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i just stumbled across this forum today and just wanted to say big hello to everyone.. it's great to know that i am not alone in this world when it comes to leaving the so called truth.. when reading through the forum discussions, i can really relate -and that is great!.
i'm sure i'll be back here time and time again.. have a great day!.
Welcome to the board Adam. You'll find that all here can relate in some way.
Axelspeed
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up until a few years ago......every dec. km had a part encouraging everyone to go in the ministry on the holidays.......christmas day, etc.. no one ever got too excited about it in our cong.
.........it was pretty much a joke to everyone even when commenting on it during the meeting part.. that no longer seems to be the case..........haven't seen any parts like this for a few years now......i guess they've given up completely.. the meeting part usually included some "fine experiences"......but i have heard exactly the opposite from some who actually tried it one time.. have any of you ever went in service on christmas day?
LOL. Yep, I can't think of anyone who truly liked it. Well maybe there were a few who got off on proving how "zealous" they were.
I think the only thing worse as a kid was having to work your own street . . . pure torture!
Axelspeed
he told my husband ?i don?t care, i just need to know is this the truth or not?
i just don?t understand why.
once again i was asked a question that i could not answer.
I feel for the guy too. It is a long hard road, and there is no turning back. . . not without a complete brain lock.
And yes, the phrase "crisis of conscience" will raise a definite red flag.
Axelspeed
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why the heck is prince a jehovah's witness????
just curious.. melissa
bono?...studying?...now that would blow me away
Axelspeed
go, then, and learn what this means, "i want mercy, and not sacrifice.
matt.
9:13. although the pharisees claimed to believe in the writings of the hebrew .
I remember the wt study that was based on. It was one of the better articles I thought. Ironically, those kinds of articles along with the greatest man book were key in me taking the rose colors off the glasses.
Axelspeed
franz stated something in this mind-blowing book which was definitely true for me.. he stated (this is a poor paraphrase) that very early on during a "study", witnesses can easily show what's in the bible regarding god's name, the condition of the dead, living on paradise earth, etc.
once these are proven to a person's satisfaction, when the study moves on to more complicated matters, it is just easier to accept what isn't understood on the basis that so far, everything has seemed true.
by now, there is an emotional investment -and everything up until now seemed fine, so.....................................let's swallow it all, and what is too difficult to swallow comfortably (blood?
Just about all the points have been covered, but just to add my 2c...ISOCF in my opinion is a must read for any xjw who ever considered themselves an 'all the way in, fully indoctrinated jw.' COC helped greatly in addressing the gnawing doubts I had, but could never be crystalized because I never had the info. Also helped me confirm that the org was far less than claimed.
But ISOCF was a piece by piece dismantling, that helped to address the question and doubt that lurked in the back of my mind still..."With all the mistakes/mishaps/misguided efforts, what if they still are right?" The chapter on argumentation and manipulation is a must imo for any former died in the wool exjw, regardless of what belief system a person now holds. In order to move on, it was what was needed for me as a raised in jw.
For those who choose to still follow Christianity, I believe that the view presented in ISO is a comforting one and one more in line with the spirit of Christianity.
Doctrinally, I am at peace with my current position. The only ties I have that concern me are the emotional/family that are still in.
Axelspeed
let me go back about six years to the 1997 district convention.
i was an "up and coming" ms at the time (only 20 years old!
) and was asked by my po (a circuit "heavy") to be his assistant (read: gopher) in the chariman's office.
Having worked in a similar capacity in the past, i agree totally. It is a different world. And when regular r&f elders were in the presence of the CO & DO, it was brown-nosing 101 that rivals any corporate setting. Seeing how men that I had looked up to growing up, and how they just about cowered, jumped and shuffled in front of these guys out of what seemed like mortal fear was an eye opener. Looking back that was probably the beginning of me waking up from the illusion.
He was obsessed with the first interviewee flipping the microphone cord out of the way, so that the others wouldn't trip on it. The problem is, the cord was already out of the way, so when I flipped it, it didn't move! So he kept making me flip it again and again. Finally, I dragged it forward, so that I could flip it out of the way, and he was finally happy.
LOL! So true, some of these guys are obsessed with the microphone and cords. I've known some that insist on a certain "degree of angle" for the mic.
Axelspeed
many of you make claim that god does not exist, you say that you found your evidence in the bible, what i want to know is where is the evidence.
i am not interested in just mere thoughts but actuall evidence
I feel that clear proof tht the Bible contains comandmants that COULD NOT HAVE BEEN GIVEN BY GOD AS THEY CONTRADICT OUR BIOLOGY has been conveniently ignored by supporters of creation who believe in the Bible.
This is exactly what I am speaking of when I say that religion perhaps gets in the way of really knowing the nature of a creator. I believe that our biology (including our base impulses, emotions such as love to rage, etc.), the natural violence and mayhem seen in the animal kingdom and dinosaurs from what we know of them...all point for me not a disbelief in a creator, but belief in one who is much different in nature than what many religions and persons presuppose. But that's just my .02.
Most of this presupposition is based on a book which contains many paradoxes about God that still have to be reconciled.
Axelspeed
many of you make claim that god does not exist, you say that you found your evidence in the bible, what i want to know is where is the evidence.
i am not interested in just mere thoughts but actuall evidence
If you accept that an intelligent being can eternally exist, then why not simple matter? If everything MUST have an intelligent creator (which would neccessarily include intelligent creators), then you get back to infinite causality.
When I was a good dub, and trying to prove the existence of God at a door, a guy I talked with raised that question and stopped me in my tracks. "If all intelligent design has a creator, then who created God?" A simple question, but it got me to thinking and from that point on I never used that jw line of reasoning with anyone I spoke with. I do still believe in God or a Creator, but that's just my own hunch of choosing just from the things I see and feel, nothing concrete. I feel that many want to confine a Creator/ God (especially in religious settings) to their own little box, version and agenda.
The one thing that incident did teach me is that there can be honest and thoughtful alternative points of view based on reasoning that can be just as convincing. My dogmatism about alot of things took a blow that day.
Axelspeed
