Posts by TallTexan

10

ALERT ---Sunday's Watchtower Study!

by apocalypse in

the watchtower study for august 1, 2004 (w 6/15/04) is an attempt to encourage the use of blood products.

that?s a bold statement, but it is true and this post is written to prove it.

furthermore, prepare your comments for sunday?s study now.

TallTexan

Excellent post. It's sad that they know they're wrong, we all know they're wrong, and probably half the active JW's know they're wrong but they still won't change because, as was stated, they are a corporation, and to admit that they were wrong would open them up to liability from the families of those htat have died from this idiotic 'rule'....er, I mean, law from God.

I guess I could at least 'respect' it if they would say - no blood, no blood products, no fractions, period! It would be stupid, but at least they would make a stand. This type of waffling and intricate reasoning on why you can take some products and not take some is just plain weak and ONLY brainwashed JW's would accept this as any type of reasonable argument. Can you imagine trying to argue this whole 'fraction' argument w/ a physician? He (or she) would tear you to pieces because it makes absolutely no sense.

8

Just a bit "funny" as to religious persecution

by TheOldHippie in

forum18, which - similar to amnesty and other groups - does a great job in directing the public's attention to acts of religious and other types of discrimination, persecution etc., and which frequently reports on persecution against jws in central asian counties such as turkmenistan etc., has the above three lines as its slogan.. it just makes me wonder ....... "the right to change one's belief or religion", "the right to join together and express one's belief".

well, one of the groups forum18 reports on as being persecuted, does not exactly tolerate free expression of thought, does not exactly tolerate "inofficial" gatherings, does not exactly give its members the right of changing their membership status or beliefs etc.

....... so let us make full use of the world's resources, but totally deny it the right of investigating ourselves .....

TallTexan

Yeah, isn't it funny how the WTS will use the hell out of every government agency it can to further it's purposes yet tell us to be 'no part of the world'? I'll bet if you were to join or send money to Amnesty International or Forum18 you'd get a quick counseling on how that money should be going to the Society and that we shouldn't support worldly organizations, yet they will take all they can from these organizations.

23

WT makes everything a conscience issue

by stillajwexelder in

the wt would make everything easy for themselves if they made everything a conscience issue -i know i have stated this before but it is so true.

they would save any lawsuits, they would stop losing people, the brothers would be happier , no dfings, no judicials, less burden on the elders, brothers training their consciences - i just can not see a downside

TallTexan

It's really none of the business of a religious body to make enforcements in those areas

AMEN!! The problem w/ the WTS is that they fail to understand that we EACH have a reckoning before God and Christ when 'our time' comes. If our conscience allows us to defraud, drink, fornicate, whatever, then we must be responsible for that to God - NOT TO THE WTS!! There were a handful of things that are mentioned in the New Testament that are absolutes to not do - immorality, homosexuality, idolatry, debached lifestyle, etc. According to the Bible, then, EVERYTHING else really is a conscience matter as long as it does not offend our brothers. Remember, Paul and Jesus both said that love is the only law, and that love would not permit us to do something that offends (or stumbles) someone else. Of course, that means that it would only stumble them if they knew about it. Therefore, if a course of action would stumble someone, but our conscience would permit it, then it would be allowable as long as we didn't make an issue out of it or make it public knowledge. Because ultimately, we are responsible for our actions ONLY to God and Christ. Not some set of religious laws set out by a self-appointed prophet body or a body of 'elders' who are much quicker to 'punish' then to help tend a wayward sheep.

I thought the points that Ray Franz makes about all this in 'Christian Freedom' are excellent. The scriptures nowhere outline a 'judicial body' to 'police' the congregation and impose harsh laws on it. The counsel Paul gives is to 'confess your sins to one another' so that each may help the other. However, as a JW, if you confess your sins to anyone other than an elder, that person is going to tell on you anyway....aren't they totally disregarding a Bible principle? Hypocrisy? In the WTS? No...get out of here!

23

WT makes everything a conscience issue

by stillajwexelder in

the wt would make everything easy for themselves if they made everything a conscience issue -i know i have stated this before but it is so true.

they would save any lawsuits, they would stop losing people, the brothers would be happier , no dfings, no judicials, less burden on the elders, brothers training their consciences - i just can not see a downside

TallTexan

Sometimes I think that they love it more than they love Jehovah.

Hmmm...really? <jk> A little sarcasm there. Their idea of 'love for Jehovah' is that they can dictate what they want to the organization and that, because it comes from them, it's gospel and therefore must not be questioned and obeyed. And 6 million people do that. I think I'd get a little addicted to that too....

84

Chilling experience

by TallTexan in

o.k....most people that know me know me to be a rational and logical person not prone to hype or the sensational.

nor am i infatuated with the supernatural as many jw's/ex-jw's are/were.

with that said, let me relate what happened to me at work last night.. on saturday night, we had four bad burns come in.

TallTexan

Being skeptical does not mean not believing in something until you experience it. The plural of anecdote is not data - even when it happens to you. Being skeptical means not believing in something without evidence. A real skeptic knows the limitations of his own perception and that even his own experience is not really "evidence". That's what the scientific method is for.

Good point and duly noted. However, there is 'circumstantial' evidence that can strongly support evidence for something that cannot be scientifically proven using the scientific method. For instance, years before microscopes were powerful enough to identify germs such as bacteria and viruses, physicians postulated that there were 'little critters' that made people sick. Time, technology, and expanding thought proved them to be right, although at the time they were ridiculed. At times through history, a variety of cases were thought to create illness, such as demon possession, or even that bathing would wash a protective 'coating' off. These were the commonly held schools of thought, yet turned out to be incorrect.

I do know what you're saying, though. Just continuing the debate...lol.

84

Chilling experience

by TallTexan in

o.k....most people that know me know me to be a rational and logical person not prone to hype or the sensational.

nor am i infatuated with the supernatural as many jw's/ex-jw's are/were.

with that said, let me relate what happened to me at work last night.. on saturday night, we had four bad burns come in.

TallTexan

And isn't it GREAT to be able to rethink ALL the stuff we took as "gospel" truth, and investigate anything we CHOOSE to? The great part of this IS......that we can accept what we believe to be credible and discard that which we don't-----OUR choice! It's so refreshing now to be free of the WTS "thought police" who decided what we could believe and what we couldn't!

Let me give a great big AMEN! to that one.

Do any of you (who are exJW's) remember ever sitting around talking (or arguing, or debating) about what YOU personally thought about a subject like this? I don't. I remember people, anytime anyone voiced a personal opinion, saying "Well, the Society says..." and basically discounting the fact that we should have personal opinions. It's great being able to discuss freely what we actually think, believe, or feel, and not have to worry about the 'thought police' coming to get you or your 'friends' telling on you....

84

Chilling experience

by TallTexan in

o.k....most people that know me know me to be a rational and logical person not prone to hype or the sensational.

nor am i infatuated with the supernatural as many jw's/ex-jw's are/were.

with that said, let me relate what happened to me at work last night.. on saturday night, we had four bad burns come in.

TallTexan

I want to say thanks to all of you (except for the all-knowing Six) for sharing your thoughts. I know that many people have had experiences like this, and I've discounted many of them for various reasons, but others have been very hard to 'blow off' based on my knowledge of the person, etc. Now maybe I know why. Some of your experiences have truly been interesting, and again I thank you.

As many of you have pointed out, it's hard sometimes as an exJW to rationalize certain things that we've always been taught. I guess the light outside the truth gets 'brighter and brighter' too...lol...

84

Chilling experience

by TallTexan in

o.k....most people that know me know me to be a rational and logical person not prone to hype or the sensational.

nor am i infatuated with the supernatural as many jw's/ex-jw's are/were.

with that said, let me relate what happened to me at work last night.. on saturday night, we had four bad burns come in.

TallTexan

One thing I find funny is people who *claim* to be skeptical, but then as soon as something happens to themselves they become the most credulous people you could ever meet. Maybe that's a selective skeptic?

Why is that odd? It's like the old saying "I found my keys the last place I looked for them"...well, of course. Why else would you keep looking for them once you found them? If one is skeptical of something, then has an experience (or finds information, etc) that proves otherwise, or at least makes them think about things differently, what's odd about that? I call that being a reasonable, rational individual who knows that as humans we are fallible and don't know everything and must be open to the fact that at some point information may come along to disprove a certain theory we hold to be true. Isn't that why many of us are now out of the WTS?

84

Chilling experience

by TallTexan in

o.k....most people that know me know me to be a rational and logical person not prone to hype or the sensational.

nor am i infatuated with the supernatural as many jw's/ex-jw's are/were.

with that said, let me relate what happened to me at work last night.. on saturday night, we had four bad burns come in.

TallTexan

Ah well, if the witnesses experience taught me nothing else, it taught me not to be shocked at the arrogance of the common man (

Hmmm. Me too. What the witness experience taught me is that it's very easy to look down on someone or their beliefs simply because you do not share them. When someone has other beliefs it's easy to classify them as "mentally diseased, demon possessed, haughty" (as the Society has said of the 'apostates'). As Ray Franz says in "Christian Freedom", it's much easier to personally attack those that you disagree with then it is to logically seek to understand their viewpoints and possibly open yourself up to the possibility that things are not as we think they are. Funny that you call me 'arrogant' when you are the one so adamantly insisting that these types of things cannot be so. I have never insisted on any beliefs or certainties as a result of my experience, only that it has been very thought provoking considering my background as a 'born and raised JW'. You seem to think that by relating this experience that I'm suddenly insisting that 'ghosts and goblins are real' when I've done anything but that. Again, you have the right to your own opinion, but you DO NOT have the right to personal criticizism upon anyone in these forums. If you want to disagree with a certain belief or thought process, that's cool, but leave your own 'guesswork' as to other's integrity or state of mind out ot if. Oh wait - I guess YOU do know everything and YOU are closed-minded. Hmmm...are you SURE you've left the JW's???

84

Chilling experience

by TallTexan in

o.k....most people that know me know me to be a rational and logical person not prone to hype or the sensational.

nor am i infatuated with the supernatural as many jw's/ex-jw's are/were.

with that said, let me relate what happened to me at work last night.. on saturday night, we had four bad burns come in.

TallTexan

I'm glad you challenged six's assertions. I find it fairly useless to argue with a die hard unbeliever (I mean, someone who refuses to believe no matter what you say). You know what happened and you can live out your life with that knowledge, so I guess there's no need to have six or anyone else believe you.
Sirona

Sirona,

Thanks. You are so correct.