Posts by Pole

145

New here

by Delta20 in

jw
friends

my name is jaron, 19 years old, i'm from the netherlands, and in about a month i am going to start joining the jw's meetings and i'm kind of looking forward to become a jw.

i can of course tell ya'll my entire spiritual story, but that would take an entire bookwork.

in a nuttshell: my father is an ex-jw, my half-sis (from an earlier marriage from my dads) is one of those "special pioneers", and i am jewish (my mom is jewish).

Pole

Hi Delta,

As for scriptures, see above. As for that hemoglobine is 97% of red bloodcells. Sure. but look again at the diagams. are red bloodcells 97% of blood? No! Hemoglobine != blood, especially not if that hemoglobine is produced in laboratories etcetera. At least thats my opinion, so I dont find it hypocritical at all to accept that. Its like telling someone who is not allowed to eat meat that they are hypocrits for eating soya meat. Sure, soya meat looks like meat, but it isn't the same.

1)

Nice example, but it proves my point again. We are not talking about synthetic substitutes for blood. We are talking about fractions obtained from real blood. Do you think Jehovah's Witnesses can donate blood without violating their stand on blood? Now what exactly has to happen when you want to accept some hemoglobin? Isn't it necessary for another person to donate real blood first?

Or better still have a look at this picture:

If the Bible says it's wrong to support stealing, can you say it only refers to whole amounts of stolen money? Or using the example you gave, it's not wrong to accept any money - just like it's not wrong for vegetarians to eat soya meat. But if real meat is used to make a particular product, is it OK to eat it and consider yourself a vegetarian? In short, don't confuse artificial blood subtitues with blood-based products.

2)

Of course you may choose to believe whatever you think the Bible tells you to do. Remember though, that 99.99% Jehovah's Witnesses have no influence on what they believe as Jehovah's Witnesses. They may only accept what the Faithful and Discreet Slave class think the current revelation, or disassociate themselves as apostates.

Take a closer look at some of the revelations provided by the FDS class concerning aluminum. Valis provided some really nice references above. Then tell me how you can be sure that the current stand on blood JWs are told to believe is any more valid.

I really hope you are beginning to get it by now.

Cheers,

Pole

36

What Did You Typically Donate To The Hall & Society?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i'm wondering if our departure has cost the society and local congregations money.

Pole

20-50 Polish zlotys a month

22

Countries with zero or neg growth up from 7 to 22

by confusedjw in

in alphabetical order:.

australia, austria, belgium, britain, canada, czech, denmark, finland, greece, hongkong, hugary, italy, japan, the netherlands, norway, portugal, puerto rico, romania, slovakia, sweden, switzerland, usa.

last year it was seven and now twentytwo countries with zero or negative growth.. remember when japan was growing by double digits each year?.

Pole

There surely are a whole array of factors, which is proved by the fact that the critical mass (publishers/worldy people ratio) is different for every society.

But the Internet is great in allowing to publish information which can be accessed by millions of other people at a very low cost.

Look at it this way: the WTS publishes millions of magazines each month which then have to be distributed and placed.

This costs them billions. On the other hand an individual may afford put up a website whose content renders the information contained in those millions of Watchtowers completely useless.

Also, no real mass scale cover-up is possible in any totalitarian system, not only WTS. In Iran there is official censorship on the local media. They can't have satelite TV. They can't even make international phonecalls from their homes. But they have to allow their young people to have internet access.

The age of information control is nearing it's demise. This has to have some effect on the WTS as well.

Pole

15

Hiding the xmas tree!

by curlygirl in

has anyone else had to hide their xmas tree because their jw relatives can't pick up a phone?

i literally had to have my hubby distract them so i could shove the damn thing in a closet!!

everyone at some point in their lives has a movie moment, unfortunately for me, mine had to be a 3 stooges movie!!!!!

Pole

Christmas tree, hah! Try doing it with 20 marijuana plants

Reminds me of when I was 16 and harvested this stuff with a friend of mine and tried to hide it at his place. We both became JWs later.

Pole

22

Countries with zero or neg growth up from 7 to 22

by confusedjw in

in alphabetical order:.

australia, austria, belgium, britain, canada, czech, denmark, finland, greece, hongkong, hugary, italy, japan, the netherlands, norway, portugal, puerto rico, romania, slovakia, sweden, switzerland, usa.

last year it was seven and now twentytwo countries with zero or negative growth.. remember when japan was growing by double digits each year?.

Pole

jgnat,

That's right. EU-slavs dont buy it anymore (Poland, Czech Rep, Slovakia, Slovenia). Internet acces and the gradual increase of affluence work miracles.

So life does get better - outside the WTS.

This trend will also come in other slavic countries (Former SU and the Balkans).

Pole - of the proud to be Slavic class :-)!

22

Countries with zero or neg growth up from 7 to 22

by confusedjw in

in alphabetical order:.

australia, austria, belgium, britain, canada, czech, denmark, finland, greece, hongkong, hugary, italy, japan, the netherlands, norway, portugal, puerto rico, romania, slovakia, sweden, switzerland, usa.

last year it was seven and now twentytwo countries with zero or negative growth.. remember when japan was growing by double digits each year?.

Pole

http://www.jwic.com/stat.htm

They have now published the 2004 analysis there.

Edited to add: Poland is proud to be the country with the lowest number of hours per publisher. (We were only beaten a few tiny little islands, but they only have a fe hundred publishers, so their results don't represent any global trend). AGAIN!!! I'm glad I reported 3 fake hours at the beginning of last year, when I was still an official publisher. LOL.

Pole

5

Jws - the soul

by A Paduan in

briefly

your physical body - the clay container

your soul - the eternal you, the essential you

Pole

As far as I remember they always say the concept of immortal soul is absolutely ridicoulous. How can a person continue to live after death? That's why JWs don't believe in it.

But they take one exception to this rule. Actually 144 000 exceptions. When you are an annointed JW and you die, you can go to heaven as a spiritual being the moment you die. Wait isn't it exactly what the immortal soul doctrine says? Well, at least it sounds different ;-).

Pole

145

New here

by Delta20 in

jw
friends

my name is jaron, 19 years old, i'm from the netherlands, and in about a month i am going to start joining the jw's meetings and i'm kind of looking forward to become a jw.

i can of course tell ya'll my entire spiritual story, but that would take an entire bookwork.

in a nuttshell: my father is an ex-jw, my half-sis (from an earlier marriage from my dads) is one of those "special pioneers", and i am jewish (my mom is jewish).

Pole

They have relaxed their standings because there has been new scientific breakthorughs, like the posibility of creating hemoglobine, or substitute blood. Its same in Judaism, jews arent allowed to turn the lights on on sabbath, but because new technology can set a timer to switch the light on and off automatically, the ejws can now use that.

Good point. It's just like Sabbath :). WHat does that have to do with God and eternal life though? Remember who criticised Jesus for his approach to Sabbath?

I've heard some orthodox Jews also have automatic flushing devices in their loos, so they don't have to work on Sabbath. Its fun. But nobody dies for it . Plus, I'm not sure if that means those Jews who have the device will be aproved for eternal life as oppsed to those who don't have it.

Editted to add: Just to remind you that you shouldn't say Jehovah's Witnesses choose to believe in this or that. This is a flat lie used by the witnesses. :)

Peace!

Pole

145

New here

by Delta20 in

jw
friends

my name is jaron, 19 years old, i'm from the netherlands, and in about a month i am going to start joining the jw's meetings and i'm kind of looking forward to become a jw.

i can of course tell ya'll my entire spiritual story, but that would take an entire bookwork.

in a nuttshell: my father is an ex-jw, my half-sis (from an earlier marriage from my dads) is one of those "special pioneers", and i am jewish (my mom is jewish).

Pole

Delta,

As I said, you seem to have heavy emotional investments in those views.

I agree with the article that its the WTS that decides on this, and there is ofcourse nowhere in the bible that says "If you are in need of blood, the substitute hemoglobine is allowed." But their reasoning is based on their interpretation of the bible. Now, let me make clear that I have absolutely no idea of God would say that its right or wrong to take blood for transfusions, in the bible theres room for interpreting both of those ideas, and the "easy" version is that what most people believe at the moment.

But their reasoning is based on their interpretation of the bible.

Whose interpretation of the Bible?

Now, let me make clear that I have absolutely no idea of God would say that its right or wrong to take blood for transfusions, in the bible theres room for interpreting both of those ideas, and the "easy" version is that what most people believe at the moment.

This is totally fallacious. So if you have no idea what the current interpretation is, you go for the one that kills your children, just because it's not "the easy one"? Do you really think God made up stupid metaphysical rules like you can accept hemoglobin (97% of red cells), but you can't accept whole blood and he wants you to follow them even if you have to dsacrifice your child? Don't call it a test of faith - as you have admitted it's not scriptural.

But again, since this is a very important decision to make (what happens if it wasnt correct to take blood, see above) it might be better to be safe then sorry, and thats what JW chose for.

You are now picturing God as a petty, legalistic maipulator. Again Jws don't chose anything. Many don't even know who makes those choices for them.

Pole

145

New here

by Delta20 in

jw
friends

my name is jaron, 19 years old, i'm from the netherlands, and in about a month i am going to start joining the jw's meetings and i'm kind of looking forward to become a jw.

i can of course tell ya'll my entire spiritual story, but that would take an entire bookwork.

in a nuttshell: my father is an ex-jw, my half-sis (from an earlier marriage from my dads) is one of those "special pioneers", and i am jewish (my mom is jewish).

Pole

To clarify one more thing Delta,

But I do understand why JW dont do bloodtransfusions. Remember when people were laughing at JW because they werent allowed to smoke? "Those stupid JW, such a strict religion, may not even smoke". We know now how much the JW's were right on that call. Bloodtransfusion is still a thing that is under development (new ways, cleaner ways, alternatives, etcetera are being created as we speak), so I think we must wait what the future holds. But that the JW follow the bible in a strict sense doesnt take away the potency of their religion... the opposite, it makes it stronger, although I have to agree that its hard in this particular case, but as I tried to say before, this isnt the only case imaginable.

The smoking analogy is not the best one really. Actually, the direction of change is the opposite. A few decades ago Jehovah's Witnesses were much more strict about the blood issue. They've relaxed their stand a lot and they accept fractions of blood - in some cases up to 97% of the fractions (see my post above). This is impossible to support using the Bible. If you have no scriptural proof for the current position and you wait for the Governing Body (I hope you are familiar with this concet) to make new relaxations in the policy for you, don't call it a test of faith. It's a classic case of self-indoctrination.

Just think of it: you don't understand the JW policy on blood. Neither do many witnesses. But you already consider dying for it and perhaps even having your children die for it in some cases.

Pole