go to the live streaming site and sign up or sign in:.
http://livestream.com/accounts/12497542/events/4350731.
skip to 9:02 and the debate begins.. _______________.
Go to the Live Streaming site and sign up or sign in:
http://livestream.com/accounts/12497542/events/4350731
_______________
SKIP to 9:02 and the debate begins.
_______________
The topic is about whether or not Jesus believed and taught that HE was divine / God.
at around 4 minutes into the september 2015 video splane said "for the man and the baby to be part of josephs generation they would have had to have lived at least some time during joseph's lifespan.".
this is the lynchpin of the wt argument, that two lives must overlap to be considered the same generation.. let's take an example of twins who are born just a few minutes apart.
obviously, these twins are the same generation as each other.
No word has 'meaning' without context.
Anybody who has been married knows this. When your wife says it is "cold" while you are sitting on the edge of the bed sweating, the sudden fickleness of subjectivity smacks you upside the head!
A word like 'generation' needs co-ordinates. It needs brackets.
The Watchtower's greatest (cough cough) THINKERS have been jiggering with this explanation a long, long time to no permanent avail.
Should any of us expect a prophecy about END TIMES to actually have a real meaning, we are already off to a bad start!
Why do I say that?
Let's ask some really basic questions.
1. Why would God set a date for the End of his patience ahead of time?
Having forbearance is a matter of self-control.
If you are on an airplane and a baby is crying, you exercise self-control and patience. When will your patience end? Can you predict accurately and set the moment with chronographic precision?
2. Is Jesus actually speaking to his thick-headed companions with a complicated scheme of ponderable data to be unravelled, understood, and carried forward for thousands of years? Or, is it more likely Jesus was simply speaking in the kind of fuzzy generalities politicians and fortune tellers use when they are impressing you with heavy portents of great and momentous gravitas?
3. With the outrageous number of WRONG GUESSES made for the last two millennia by some of the greatest theologians known to history, all of whom were working with the same scriptures the Watchtower uses, isn't it demonstrable to anyone with half a brain functioning: there is no secret understandable key to working out an actual event?
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The End Times fundamentalists, evangelicals, and biblical inerrantists, take themselves (and the Bible) waaaaaaay tooooo seriously.
If there was a real Jesus. . .
and if the oral tradition was fairly accurate . . .
and the hundreds of generations of copyists didn't corrupt or demolish his words . . .
and if we are to understand what this mystical messiah was intending us to harken to. . .
HOW ARE ANY OF US better off spending our time working it out rather than merely
living each day as if it was our last?
JW's, Mormons, 7th Day Adventists, and the hundreds of other knuckle-head religious groups who wallow in the gloom of doom have only poisoned the well when it comes to arousing the public at large to ANY CREDIBLE acceptance of a prediction from now on!
It is time to GIVE IT UP and move on!
What does "this generation" really mean?
It means you've been invited on a Snipe hunt. So, dress warm and bring a bag big enough to hold your critter when you find it!
So, hide and watch as the JW's lead new converts around in the dark again and again with newer and newer Light.
None of it means a damned thing!
ali did not serve even five minutes of time in prison and that had zero to do with hayden c. covington..
june 19, 1967 in houston, tex..
there are a number of salient facts concerning this man who possessed a big reputation..
If I take three giant steps backwards and look at the many layers of bureaucracy which make up the Watchtower
Organization today and lay that side by side with the Org in the time of Rutherford, WHAT A STARK DIFFERENCE there is to behold!
Legally speaking, today's Org is lawyered up to the gills.
There are firewalls galore.
Indemnity is the flag which flies highest on the pole.
We have in contemporary Witnessdom a plausible deniability policy with a Cheshire grin.
Instead of a few stalwart super-lawyers of the magnitude of Hayden C. Covington, there are faceless hirelings by the busload, skittering about on their little rat claws doing the bidding of hooded figures weilding scythes.
ali did not serve even five minutes of time in prison and that had zero to do with hayden c. covington..
june 19, 1967 in houston, tex..
there are a number of salient facts concerning this man who possessed a big reputation..
Using the inflation calculator, Moyle sued the Watchtower and J.F.Rutherford for $50,000.00 each which in today's money is $857,251.80. The total of his lawsuit would = 2 X $857,251.80 or $1,714,503.60
Olin Moyle was awarded: $30,000.00 in today's money = $514,351.08, but later reduced to half. or roughly a quarter of a million dollars. (plus interest!)
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I love this part, where Rutherford is hysterical with righteous indignation:
"Now, I say this to you, Moyle, you have allied yourself with the
Devil; you have willingly, without any just cause or excuse even, withdrawn
yourself from the Lord's organization, and you are going back to the Devil's
organization to engage in the practice of law. I have never known any man
to withdraw from the Lord's organization and go into the Devil's
organization, that ended up right. When you say you want to continue to
fight for the Lord, there is not a person in this presence that believes a
word of that. Henceforth you shall never represent the Watchtower by my
consent. This Resolution has been adopted. I shall follow it. You have
served notice to leave September 1. You need not wait but move out of the
house this day. If you wish to join the enemy and fight, do so. I have no use
for a quitter. You are a quitter. You have furnished as an excuse that the
president of this organization has not conducted the Society according to
your ideas, and I don't think your ideas are Scriptural. In the 4 years that
you have been here, I have never heard you ask or answer a single Bible
question in the Bethel home. Any man that pretends to be of the Lord's
organization, and who does not attend the studies and does not engage in
the spiritual discussion in this home, but who devotes himself to his
general work, and then goes about talking with others to cause discord and
to find fault with the organization, cannot be in the truth. I shall read this
letter to the family or have it read. You may be present; if you wish to
defend yourself. Henceforth I shall expect you to ally yourself with those
who oppose the Society as long as I am here."
ali did not serve even five minutes of time in prison and that had zero to do with hayden c. covington..
june 19, 1967 in houston, tex..
there are a number of salient facts concerning this man who possessed a big reputation..
this is a question on old doctrine of jw's.
before they came up with the "great crowd" "revelation", where did they preached that the anointed ones will be?
because if they preached it will be in heaven, how did they understood that the prophecies about the earth will be fulfilled?
Here is a very simple way to look at Watchtower doctrine.
Look at MOTIVE.
How is a new doctrine motivated?
How is a change necessitated?
What event triggers the changeover?
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1. Pastor Russell died after having his prophetic certainties proved false. 1914 was supposed to be THE END and not the beginning of the end.
2. Rutherford seized power under the pretext of heavenly guidance FROM RUSSELL. This motivated a dog and pony show. Those among the Bible Students and so-called Russellites who were loyal would need to be teased into continuing their following under Rutherford.
3. The Finished Mystery was a new book perpetrating the fraud: Russell's 7th Volume in his extremely popular Studies in the Scripture. In truth, Clayton J. Woodworth and George H. Fisher AUTHORED this book.
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4. This book was followed by a prophetic sermon which MOVED the date of Armageddon/ resurrection to 1925 using the catchy title: MILLIONS NOW LIVING WILL NEVER DIE.
5. This started a countdown clock.
6. When 1925 proved Rutherford ALSO was a false prophet, the wheels came off the cart.
7. The idea of Armageddon became detached from a specific date, but the clock was ticking.
8. Losing more and more of the Bible Students and Russellites day after day, Rutherford decided to REVAMP by hitting the RESET button on Russell's teachings. He declared them OLD LIGHT. This necessitated NEW LIGHT.
9. Rutherford swept the pieces off the table and started from scratch. Just about everything was rebuilt, reinterpreted, retooled.
WHY DID THE HEAVENLY HOPE SPLIT OFF INTO AN EARTHLY "OTHER SHEEP" OR JONADAB CLASS?
10. The number of the anointed remaining alive on earth would become the indicator or COUNTDOWN CLOCK to Armageddon. Every new memorial would produce lower and lower numbers. The OTHER SHEEP could--by being a separate class--go up and up and up in numbers.
i had one two weeks ago, i'm fine.
but how nice it was not to lift anything over.
10 pounds.
i had one two weeks ago, i'm fine.
but how nice it was not to lift anything over.
10 pounds.
If I had NOT done all those exercises, I probably would have failed my Armed Forces medical exam and wouldn't have had to go to prison!
??????Why did you go to prison?????
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I told the entire story in my 1st book, "I Wept by the Rivers of Babylon" (A Prisoner of Conscience in a Time of War.
http://www.amazon.com/WEPT-BY-THE-RIVERS-BABYLON-ebook/dp/B00FMHQ4GK
JW's, in the 1950's and 60's had the legal right to refuse Military service and take Alternate work in hospitals as a conscience objector. HOWEVER. . . the Watchtower organization had a different policy!
The SECRET policy was this.
JW's would refuse their legal right to Alternate service and go to prison instead as a public witness (and a kind of nanner-nanner-boo-boo) demonstrating how we were more righteous.
I was 20 years old and not even an adult at the time I was sentenced (under the Youth Corrections Act) to an INDETERMINATE sentence lasting not less than 6 months and not more than 6 years.)
I was arrested, thrown in jail and transferred to Federal Prison from 1967 until 1969, and then placed on parole for the remainder of my sentence.
ali did not serve even five minutes of time in prison and that had zero to do with hayden c. covington..
june 19, 1967 in houston, tex..
there are a number of salient facts concerning this man who possessed a big reputation..
Covington: I was originally in casualty insurance, defense, personal injury, and representing insurance companies in damage suit cases; then bond forfeiture cases and bond obligation cases. Then, when I went to Bethel I was in a different area altogether. But, still I had had enough trial experience in appellate argument and court experience that it was easy for me to shift into the position of defending Jehovah's Witnesses and it was good because I was able to do what I liked which was to defend my client. Also having got a righteous cause gives you a double barrel.
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Notice how this UNTRUTH is presented:
Covington: The Lowell Case had gone on up and the judge had authorized the appeal of that and Mr. Moyle, who was at that time at Bethel, handled that case. I went to Bethel in 1939. Brother Rutherford called me in, but that was after the Madison Square Garden Riot case and that was because the fact that other lawyer by the name of Moyle quit, and left Brother Rutherford holding the bag. I got an invitation to come by special delivery from Rutherford, and I went immediately. I had to transfer cases to a dozen or two lawyers in order to make that change.
ali did not serve even five minutes of time in prison and that had zero to do with hayden c. covington..
june 19, 1967 in houston, tex..
there are a number of salient facts concerning this man who possessed a big reputation..
