PRE-internet it was virtually impossible for a 'woke' JW to comprehend how many others of their mindset were merely treading water in local congregations.
PRE-internet DF'd persons were in that 'sunken place' alone and troubled by isolation and vulnerable to depression and self-doubt.
Then the internet was born and the light grew brighter and brighter ...:)
Of all the forums and discussion groups that sprung up like mushrooms in a dark forest after the rain - only THIS ONE had the spark of fellowship and articulate individual spokesperson who clarified and comforted the aching misery of EX-JWdom.
Suddenly the dank and fetid rot of this Organization was laid bare like roadkill.
Some extraordinary folks have passed through here over the years. I showed up around 2006 and I've posted well over a thousand Topics.
I've seen them come and go: all unique - but - all suffering the same cognitive dissonance and anger issues to a greater or lesser degree.
I had soooo much anger I was unaware was inside me!
My posts were machete swings.
I outgrew that- and it was a huge unburdening spurt of personal growth ever afterward.
We start out with an ax to grind or a Big Question to ask and debate to engage in before we gain steady footing in reality.
THIS FELLOWSHIP is made possible by people who really truly care what happens to others.
jehovahs-witness dot com is an OASIS and a refuge in a wasteland of cult morbidity.
Posts by Terry
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24
This Discussion Board
by minimus inwhen you look back the last 20 years , what a transformation!
back then witnesses were putting out poetry and most were singing the praises of the organization.
slowly and gradually, negative thoughts were allowed to be expressed about doctrines, elders and congregation life.
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Terry
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The Anointed Apostate: the Remarkable Sister Pettifog
by TerryWalstrom in(on the anniversary of my jw best friend's death, i've reached into my archive to replay this incident in his honor)
the remarkable sister *pettifog*.
this morning i arrived on my bicycle at the local starbucks early and took up a seat at the outdoor table in the fresh air.. that’s when it happened--a group of 3 older ladies at one of the other tables outside rose to leave and one of them walked over to my table and spoke directly to me.
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Terry
It's been 40 years since I was inside a Kingdom Hall.
An old ex-JW friend of mine (just before he died) accompanied me five years ago to our old Kingdom Hall. At least, we tried.
It was gone!
The plot of land was still there, of course. A different building now stood in its place.
We simply stood blinking at what wasn't there (if that's possible.)
A peculiar nostalgia of sadness swept over both of us.
We exchanged memories that made us laugh until we succumbed to tears.
Those people were dearest 'friends' as well as spiritual Brothers and Sisters.
Except ...it isn't REALLY true. They were NOT actual friends.
Friends don't cut you dead in an instant.
It was all inside our skull bone like a flash of weather formed out of nature itself.
The sound of the ocean in a seashell.
BELIEF is living your dream and the 'fellowship' is a shared delusion.
If you've ever been in love/infatuation - it's like that: so vivid, visceral, and robust inside your chest but nothing more than a downpour - here and gone.
We stood there and looked at reality: there was NOTHING there and I'm not lying if I say this: there never was.
Not at all.
Even that friend is gone now. Quentin Roberts.
The big difference is that he was a TRUE friend every waking moment of every day and when he passed on - the silence of the phone that doesn't ring haunts me without letup.
I'm very grateful we undertook that little trip. I cherish it. -
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The Anointed Apostate: the Remarkable Sister Pettifog
by TerryWalstrom in(on the anniversary of my jw best friend's death, i've reached into my archive to replay this incident in his honor)
the remarkable sister *pettifog*.
this morning i arrived on my bicycle at the local starbucks early and took up a seat at the outdoor table in the fresh air.. that’s when it happened--a group of 3 older ladies at one of the other tables outside rose to leave and one of them walked over to my table and spoke directly to me.
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Terry
"I want to personally thank you and all the other posters on here for posting your experiences and helping many to wake up to this evil religion." -hoser-
I want to thank you for taking the time to read it and comment. Much obliged! -
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The Anointed Apostate: the Remarkable Sister Pettifog
by TerryWalstrom in(on the anniversary of my jw best friend's death, i've reached into my archive to replay this incident in his honor)
the remarkable sister *pettifog*.
this morning i arrived on my bicycle at the local starbucks early and took up a seat at the outdoor table in the fresh air.. that’s when it happened--a group of 3 older ladies at one of the other tables outside rose to leave and one of them walked over to my table and spoke directly to me.
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Terry
The other day I got an email from my High School here in Ft. Worth informing me of the REUNION. I had to laugh. I graduated in 1965!
I typed a quick reply.
"Dear So-n-so,
Who in their right mind would imagine after 56 years anybody would wish to attend a High School reunion? They're probably all dead anyway. Thanks anyway."
This set me remembering, of course... (cue the harp glissando)
Inevitably I thought back to who I was at age 18. I was one of Jehovah's Witnesses and not much more than that.
How did I let that happen? - I wondered redundantly.
Eventually, I traveled that well-worn path back in time and bumped into this memory of the anointed sister at the Kingdom Hall.
I thought I'd look this one up and I found it.
Anointed? No - you're probably mentally ill.
The Governing body covering their ass again - that's what that's all about.
We all watched the Memorial figures for the countdown back then.
The numbers of partakers should diminish like sand running out of an old hourglass.
Nope.
Started back up and up ...
Huh?
Gotta explain that somehow, right?
Makes me wonder how all those anointed newbies felt when they weren't celebs any longer.
It's curious psychology.
Mildred Pettifogg (aka Boots Richardson) would really be pissed! -
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"New light": how and when did this idea start?
by psyco inhow and when did the "understanding" of the progressive ("new light") understanding start?.
anybody knows?.
thanks!.
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Terry
Question:
"New light": how and when did this idea start?
Answer:
"7th Day Adventists' Ellen White", that's the answer to your query.
Ellen White taught that the believers should not consult non-Adventists regarding new light for the time of the end, for God would reveal new light directly to His remnant church. She said: "If God has any new light to communicate, He will let His chosen and beloved understand it, without their going to have their minds enlightened by hearing those who are in darkness and error."
"Ellen White indicates that “new light”—which means better understanding of truth, not different doctrines—will be discovered if we will only spend the time and effort to study line upon line, precept upon precept."
"Throughout their history, Seventh-day Adventists have looked forward to discovering additional truth. Ellen G. White, one of the church's principal founders, kept this hope alive, stating, "Truth is an advancing truth."
She encouraged believers to search for additional light, for "there are mines of truth yet to be discovered by the earnest seeker."
In speaking of "truth" she always meant truth as given by God through His divine Word."
"Crucial Questions.
In practical terms, if the "new light" was "not present in earlier times" and if God did not reveal our "present truths" to the "prophets and disciples of old," by what criteria can today's believers determine whether this "new light" is really light or darkness?
Is the ordination of women as elders or pastors (which some are now calling a "moral imperative") new light or no light? To name some other current examples the church faces, how can a Christian today know whether approval of homosexual practice is new light or no light? Is the assertion that our earth is millions of years old new light or no light? Is speaking in unintelligible ecstatic utterances new light or no light? Are suggestions that we eat unclean meats, drink alcohol, and wear adornment new light or no light?Thus the reinterpretations raise fundamental questions about how we may know what is new light and about the very character of truth itself.
When any group or individual claims to have "new light," we must evaluate it. It is essential to study what divine inspiration has revealed about the nature of new light. What new light can we expect just before the second advent? Will it change the way we look at Scripture and how we interpret it? In what areas can we expect to see a development of new light? These questions will help us focus on some key aspects of this important topic."
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Charles Taze Russell came in contact with some of the writings of Ellen G. White, who had developed the system known as Seventh-Day Adventists. Many of the ideas of Ellen White fascinated him, especially the idea of soul-sleeping and the annihilation of the wicked. He began to formulate a doctrine of his own, beginning with the idea that “hell” meant only the grave. This was the beginning of Russell’s doctrine.
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shorturl.at/owGNP -
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IF it quacks like a duck ...? WHAT IS IT?
by Terry ina question: "what does identity mean?
" if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck have feathers like a duck: it is a __?___.
hans christian anderson taught us this lesson in the famous story of "the ugly duckling" (**spoiler alert**) the ugly part of the duckling was misleading to observers who later discover it is a swan.
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Terry
The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.
Magazine ADs in the early years of my life used a kind of reverse "guilt by association"
with a half-naked model standing next to an automobile, a sports hero eating a box of Wheaties, or a rich celebrity wearing some trendy item of fashion thus implying that
the Product = the user's beauty, cash, success.
Removing criticism, silencing nay-sayers, threatening dissidents was very much a part of being a JW and now in Society at large by politics, media, and corporate technocrats. -
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Did Jesus Have A Dog?
by minimus ina preteen asked me , “did jesus have a dog”?
i thought the question was hysterical.
why wouldn’t jesus have a dog or pet cat or sheep?
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IF it quacks like a duck ...? WHAT IS IT?
by Terry ina question: "what does identity mean?
" if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck have feathers like a duck: it is a __?___.
hans christian anderson taught us this lesson in the famous story of "the ugly duckling" (**spoiler alert**) the ugly part of the duckling was misleading to observers who later discover it is a swan.
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Terry
I remember my earliest conversations with my best friend (who just happened to be a Jehovah's Witness, whatever the hell that was ...).
Johnny kept saying things that "bumped into" my understanding of how things are.
These weren't arguments. Not at first.
These were challenges.
I could either ignore these dissonances or question them, you see...
Challenges (bumps) continued.
The idea was to erode my view of reality. (I don't mean Johnny saw it this way. It is what JW's are trained to do and it's the "life-saving" work of any evangelist :)
Pretty soon his persuasions wore off my edges and I started to smell like his ideas.
IRONICALLY, JW's have reverse engineered the Ant Trickster strategy.
THEY RUB OFF ON YOU and get you to infiltrate the Kingdom Hall where
THEY CARRY YOU OFF as their mental slave.
Ontologically, words and their meanings are CHANGED (tampered).
Different use of words leads to a different understanding of "meaning" itself.
A VIRUS hijacks and takes over and so does religion and so does a political ideology.
GENDER issues and POLITICAL CORRECTNESS too.
CENSORSHIP and WOKENESS too.
The world I grew up in no longer exists untampered, un "bumped". -
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IF it quacks like a duck ...? WHAT IS IT?
by Terry ina question: "what does identity mean?
" if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck have feathers like a duck: it is a __?___.
hans christian anderson taught us this lesson in the famous story of "the ugly duckling" (**spoiler alert**) the ugly part of the duckling was misleading to observers who later discover it is a swan.
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Terry
A QUESTION: "What does IDENTITY mean?"
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck have feathers like a duck: IT IS A __?___Hans Christian Anderson taught us this lesson in the famous story of
"THE UGLY DUCKLING"
(**Spoiler Alert**) the ugly part of the duckling was misleading to observers who later discover it is a SWAN.
(Cue the music: dun Dun DUNNNNN!)Humans aren't exact duplicate copies of their parents.The COPY and PASTE contain "mutations".A mutant version of a copy may have more disadvantages than advantages. (Sociopath, birth defect, etc.)Or?Or maybe a chess wizard, math genius, or outstanding inventor, etc.It may walk like a Duck, Quack like a Duck, but have feathers like a Swan. (As that story goes...)SOCIETY is a large group of humans who instinctively make snap judgments about US and THEM which has been a protective mechanism in the history of families, tribes, and nations.Pay attention, Students!It all begins with Aristotle who taught:"... the IDENTITY of an object is constituted by its properties"Translation:(A duck walks duck-like, quacks duck-like, is feathered duck-like, etc.)Science (Biology) teaches: "An organism has a phenotype and a genotype."Translation: "A living thing IS what it looks like and what it does(i.e. observable characteristic) PLUS its genotype: (heritable traits.)So far what do we know? Are we saying: "IT IS WHAT IT IS?"No. That's gibberish.Ant colonies post guards which sniff all who enter for chemical signals which either allow entrance or alert "DANGER"!This knee-jerk protective instinct works great until it doesn't.One ant species sends out a trickster who shows up and fails the sniff test and gets carried off and tossed out as a bouncer does with a drunk.(The trickster keeps coming back! Again and again, until it has rubbed off the molecules of SCENT onto itself and smells like the guards!UH OH!The trickster-ant passes the sniff test, infiltrates the colony, and gets the layout for "nefarious purposes." (Assassinate the queen and kidnap the pupae to raise as the next generation of slaves.)
ANTS TAKE SLAVES! The mind boggles!
______Human immune system defense is fantastic at determiningone thing very quickly: "LIKE ME? or NOT LIKE ME".A foreign substance entering our body has to pass this sorting sentinel's "LIKE ME or NOT LIKE ME" to avoid being attacked and destroyed.NATURE consists of organisms that can sort correctly or perish.(Seamless transition alert!)POLITICS is part of the sorting mechanism.Politicians are like Trickster Ants.The would-be elected official bumps into opposition again and again until it smells like "one of us."If Voters agree a candidate "smells okay", that critter infiltrates our social immune system and begins tampering with everything.A virus too! It tricks our immune system and carries us off as its slave!A social movement too! A religion can infiltrate our thinking and carry us off as its slave! __________
WE LIVE IN A TIME where sorting is NOT being made easy.Definitions are changing of what a DUCK IS or IS NOT."Trickster-ants" are everywhere claiming to be just like us and they are not.Rules are tampered with, policies are re-jiggered little by little unit every member of our species is DEMANDING to infiltrate no matter what they smell like.WE HAVE LOST our connection with Nature.We cannot rely on "instincts" any longer for defense.We are forbidden to sort ducks.OUR SPECIES no longerIS what it IS.Good or Bad, right or wrong, this is our landscape.Adapt or perish is the way into the future.You don't have to like it - do you?In fact, how you FEEL about it is your problem.BE who you are or be who others say you are: that is the choice.Fit in, sneak in, barge in, break-in, vote in; impeach out, toss out, vote out, shout out --- it is UP TO YOU.CHOICE and RIGHTS are now "snowclones." (Definition: "a multi-use, customizable, instantly recognizable, time-worn, quoted or misquoted phrase or sentence that can be used in an entirely open array of different variants" )
Our IDENTITY has been taken captive and we are hollowed out as slaves to ideology.________We are the hollow menWe whisper togetherAre quiet and meaninglessAs wind in dry grassOr rats' feet over broken glassIn our dry cellarThe eyes are not hereThere are no eyes hereIn this valley of dying starsIn this hollow valleyBetween the ideaAnd the realityBetween the motionAnd the actFalls the ShadowBetween the conceptionAnd the creationBetween the emotionAnd the responseFalls the ShadowBetween the desireAnd the spasmBetween the potencyAnd the existenceBetween the essenceAnd the descentFalls the ShadowThis is the way the world endsThis is the way the world endsThis is the way the world endsNot with a bang but a whimper._________T.S. Eliot (The Hollow Men) -
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Why did Paul call Jesus, “the firstborn from the dead”?
by Doug Mason in"jesus christ was resurrected on nisan 16, 33 c.e., the day when the jewish high priest offered up the firstfruits of the barley harvest.
this fits in accurately with jesus' being the "firstfruits" in the resurrection of the human dead.
(1 cor.
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Terry
Paul (who came along after Jesus' death) spoke and wrote first about him.
(1 Cor. 15:20)
Mankind, in God's eternal emergency plan (in view of Adam's failure) needed a proxy government to stand in on behalf of all future sinners descending from Eve and Adam's sexual union. It is in that frame we must read Paul's words.
Humans know they will die. They are the Walking Dead, as it were.
Media vita in morte sumus (Latin for "In the midst of life we are in death")
Humans are born when their mother gives birth.
(Counting 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. the firstborn is literally born first. Duh.)
Only a dead person who returns to life can be said to be born from the dead.
Since Lazarus was resurrected by Jesus it is reasonable Jesus cannot be firstborn from literal death if Jesus dies and comes back to life AFTER Lazarus.
Jesus preached to these walking dead and chose from among them a selection of humans to rule with him in his future Kingdom.
It is among these select (elect) members Jesus will be the FIRST of that Kingdom to die and be brought back to life in celestial spirit form. The sacred secret, as it were, is the identity of those 144,000 harvested who shall rule for 1,000 years.
All OTHER Humans 'harvested' from death must stand up (anastasis) in a resurrection.
Presumably for further judgment. (I say 'further' because death itself manifests the judgment of God already.)
Two distinct resurrection categories would seem to apply in God's sacred secret.
1. The resurrected government (no further judgment)
2. The resurrected humanity who ARE further judged. (To fail that subsequent judgment requires the 'lake of fire' absolute obliteration.