u/d:
cool. hey, i'll buy ya a beer.
doogie
JoinedPosts by doogie
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93
Alcoholism - a disease or a choice?
by Sirona inalcoholics anonymous claims that alcoholism is a disease.
somehow i think that is just a way of excusing the person from the responsibility that they chose to drink and they chose to let it become an addiction.. what do you think?.
sirona
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93
Alcoholism - a disease or a choice?
by Sirona inalcoholics anonymous claims that alcoholism is a disease.
somehow i think that is just a way of excusing the person from the responsibility that they chose to drink and they chose to let it become an addiction.. what do you think?.
sirona
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doogie
Is that a judgement of my viewpoint? So all addictions are "diseases", therefore pedophiles who claim it's "just who they are" .... oh never mind. When was the last time a cancer patient killed a child in a crosswalk with his car due to his disease?
if a person is infected with AIDS and goes around intentionally infecting others, does this make AIDS a choice or him an a$$hole? having a disease does not absolve you from responsibility for your actions. it also does not absolve you from responsibility for what you may have done to increase your risk of being affected by the disease (be it unprotected sex, or alcohol abuse).
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93
Alcoholism - a disease or a choice?
by Sirona inalcoholics anonymous claims that alcoholism is a disease.
somehow i think that is just a way of excusing the person from the responsibility that they chose to drink and they chose to let it become an addiction.. what do you think?.
sirona
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doogie
U/D:
i guess for this discussion to go any further, you would really need to pin down what you view as the criteria for a disease. so far i gather:
- it must depend on an outside catalyst to survive
- it must make you sick or kill you (apparently without an outside catalyst)
- it must communicable
is this correct? because i'm sure we could come up with scores of diseases that are commonly understood to be "diseases" that do not fit this criteria.
edited to add:
Alcohol is the abuse of a substance.
i assume you mean alcoholism. from what i understand, alcohol abuse is the abuse of a substance. alcoholism refers to the body's reaction to ANY alcohol. -
93
Alcoholism - a disease or a choice?
by Sirona inalcoholics anonymous claims that alcoholism is a disease.
somehow i think that is just a way of excusing the person from the responsibility that they chose to drink and they chose to let it become an addiction.. what do you think?.
sirona
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doogie
In the real world most people don't care who's offended.... although I try not to "offend". But try and see what I meant and as I think I make a valid point.
no, i understand it wasn't intentional (and apparently you don't really care) but your comment just seemed kind of heartless. and in my experience, people that grew up with a violent alcoholic in the family have a more difficult time viewing it as anything but a choice. some feel that to view it as a disease is to excuse the bad behavior that results. i don't look at it this way and i feel that people should be held accountable for violence/abuse even if they are somewhat handicapped by a history of alcoholism.
if it can be shown that alcohol has different physiological effects on a person with a history of alcoholism than a person who doesn't, i fail to see how this is any different than any other genetic disease.
LT:
You're not in denial, are ya?
no, no...of course not...(i'm scottish, i'm supposed to be a heavy drinker)
(just kidding, one celt to another)
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93
Alcoholism - a disease or a choice?
by Sirona inalcoholics anonymous claims that alcoholism is a disease.
somehow i think that is just a way of excusing the person from the responsibility that they chose to drink and they chose to let it become an addiction.. what do you think?.
sirona
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doogie
is he still an alcoholic?
technically, yes, he is, because his body would still react to the alcohol differently than a "normal" person's if alcohol were reintroduced.
What if it's genetic for me to hunt assholes down and put a bullet between their eyes? I can't help it (it's genetic), perhaps I'm "evolving" and this is how more advance creatures act... but you're all to primitive to see it because.... well you get the idea.
that seems to be a rather condescending take on alcoholism... i'm not an alcoholic and i'm still offended by this.
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93
Alcoholism - a disease or a choice?
by Sirona inalcoholics anonymous claims that alcoholism is a disease.
somehow i think that is just a way of excusing the person from the responsibility that they chose to drink and they chose to let it become an addiction.. what do you think?.
sirona
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doogie
lonelysheep:
When I was an alcoholic, I was drunk whenever possible. I was also a teenager. Unfortunately, I didn't have help, but eventually did stop on my own.
from what i've read about alcoholism, if you had it, it was very mild. alcoholism usually is not something that someone can just "will" themselves out of.
sirona:
Lets talk about "normal" alcohol use. Health experts say two drinks a day for a man and one drink a day for a woman. How many of us adhere to that? (a drink is one beer, or one small glass of wine).
heck no! i've read that before and i thought, man, i'm not such a drunk after all! (i'll have a drink or two maybe one out of 3 days)
personally, i have a STRONG family history of alcoholism. as of now, i'm able to maintain control of my drinking. i do agree that lifting the next (and the next and the next...) drink to your lips is technically a choice, but the way that our individual bodies process the alcohol and the way our individual brains react to it is certainly not. there have been numerous studies that show that children's of alcoholics bodies process alcohol differrently and this is why i feel that it can't be called a "choice" anymore than heart disease can.
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93
Alcoholism - a disease or a choice?
by Sirona inalcoholics anonymous claims that alcoholism is a disease.
somehow i think that is just a way of excusing the person from the responsibility that they chose to drink and they chose to let it become an addiction.. what do you think?.
sirona
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doogie
i think we're assuming that just because a person has a 'genetic predisposition' for the disease, they HAVE to exhibit the symptoms...otherwise it must not be a disease. why is this standard not applied to any other disease? as someone else said, we're confusing 'predisposition' with 'predestination.'
Edited to add: there are some children born to parents with AIDS that are immune to the virus...
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93
Alcoholism - a disease or a choice?
by Sirona inalcoholics anonymous claims that alcoholism is a disease.
somehow i think that is just a way of excusing the person from the responsibility that they chose to drink and they chose to let it become an addiction.. what do you think?.
sirona
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doogie
Mitch Hedberg (comedian who recently passed away)
what?!? NOOOOOOO!!!!!
man, i loved him. (in a purely comedian/audience way)
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doogie
he took all of them, silly! except the dinosaurs and unicorns. that's why they're extinct!
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93
Alcoholism - a disease or a choice?
by Sirona inalcoholics anonymous claims that alcoholism is a disease.
somehow i think that is just a way of excusing the person from the responsibility that they chose to drink and they chose to let it become an addiction.. what do you think?.
sirona
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doogie
So, I should be an alcoholic, right? All the factors are there, the genetic predisposition, the environmental factor, the habitual use of alcohol as a young child. Well, guess what- I know my limits, and I stop at two drinks. Maybe I'd like more than that, but I know that I'm responsible for my own actions, so I control myself. I have two brothers, with the same genetics and upbringing as I had. One rarely drinks, the other one is rarely sober. So, these are the choices we've made in our lives. I don't consider alcoholics to be diseased, I consider them weak-willed.
so, by your logic, 100% of people with a family history of cancer should end up getting cancer, right?...i mean, otherwise, the cancer must've been the family member's own fault somehow...