Alcoholism - a disease or a choice?

Sirona

Alcoholics Anonymous claims that Alcoholism is a disease. Somehow I think that is just a way of excusing the person from the responsibility that they chose to drink and they chose to let it become an addiction.

What do you think?

Sirona

LittleToe

Like most disease, it's preventable. Therein the responsibility lays with the individual.
If someone has a problem, they need to deal with it (including getting help), and the first step has be be a desire to do that
If there's a family history of alcoholism (or any other type of addiction), then surely it would be prudent to be careful?

Coming from an area of Scotland that has a higher than usual incidence, in a country that's notorious for over-drinking, I see it on a regular basis. It ruins lives, and not just that of the person concerned, but of the family and wider community

Abaddon

Sirona

I think you're fab ANYWAY...

BUT there is way more scientific evidence for a genetic link to addiction than to any claim made of the paranormal.

Your question is like me saying;

"Some people say that many claims made of paranormal events or powers are true, despite the total lack of reliable evidence. Somehow I think that is just a way of developing a fantastical belief structure that allows some escape from pre-exisiting psychological problems or enculturated fears, or one that is developed to allow the maintenace of a belief in a non-mundane reality that promises that perception exists beyond the end of brain activity."

Well, like me saying that, apart from the fact that Alcoholism's genetic component is proven, unlike paranormal claims, and that Alcoholism is a ghastly thing to suffer from for both the sufferer and their friends and family.

Having someone in your family who believes in ghosties is normally just a bit embaressing .

Given your passion for insisting in your right to believe in stuff that can't be proved, it's a little bit cheeky you seek to disbelieve something that has been proved, especially when by doing so you insult the moral character of those people. You give less credence to their (AA's) claims than you expect for your own!

Abaddon

Ross

Therein the responsibility lays with the individual.

Very true... and here we have a great example (in this discussion board) of people who, by-and-large, took responsibility for themselves.

Some of us did it ourselves.

Some of us had help.

.... but there are many people NOT here who WOULD be 'here', IF they had the right help or the personal resources to help themselves.

Everyone is equal in RIGHTS, not ABILITIES, and I'm not going to assume that it as simple as saying "the responsibility lays with the individual." when I know that some people due to their genetic make-up, family background, education and intelligence have a radically different level of ability as regards taking personal responsibility.

I know someone who was the head of a school for children between 7 and 13 with Emotional or Behavorial Difficulties for forty years, almost. He's a sweet lovely man, intelligent and capable. He recovered from alcoholism; but surely, if it was all down to something as simple as individual responsibility (which he has in spades), a man like him couldn't ever HAVE such a problem?

LittleToe

Gyles:I agree, which is why I included "getting help". Though I would suggest that without at least that basic desire, recovery is unlikely.
Working for the NHS, and having close links with the Health Promotion division, I think prevention is far better than cure...

Sirona

Abaddon

Given your passion for insisting in your right to believe in stuff that can't be proved, it's a little bit cheeky you seek to disbelieve something that has been proved, especially when by doing so you insult the moral character of those people. You give less credence to their (AA's) claims than you expect for your own!

Hang on a minute. I asked whether alcoholism was a DISEASE - and by that I meant something that develops regardless of choices, thereby absolving the individual of responsibility for the alcoholism. I didn't ask if there was a proven genetic predisposition.

What I am saying is that an alcoholic is either totally free of responsibility because it is an unavoidable disease, or they are responsible because they unfortunately have the addiction gene and chose to drink to excess.

I am very open to someone saying that it IS a disease - I suppose I shouldn't have made the statement in the way I did. I should have said "Do you think it is just a way to avoid responsiblity?"

Another question: how does one know if one has the alcoholism disease?

Sirona

JH

Without criticizing a person with this condition, I'd rather try to understand them and help them if they wanted my help and support.

HappyDad

Alcoholics Anonymous claims that Alcoholism is a disease. Somehow I think that is just a way of excusing the person from the responsibility that they chose to drink and they chose to let it become an addiction.

Sirona,

I'll try to make a long story short! When I was an elder, I found the pressures of that position and life in general too much to handle. There were also the seeds of doubt about the religion I gave many years of my life to. So what does a dub do to ease these pressures? He/she drinks to go to another dimension far away from the JW mindset. That is what I found myself doing. From a moderate, pleasureable, social drinker, my drinking became a habit. And then it became an addiction. My family was suffering because I was taking my frustrations out on them. So what did I do? Thanks to a workmate who was in AA, I started going to AA meetings. Now that is something I kept to myself because holding hands and praying the "Lord's Prayer" was a no-no according to the WTBTS.

Anyhow, from that first meeting I went to in 1989, I never took another drink for many years. As I learned about the reasons behind heavy drinking, I bought into the whole idea about it being a disease and everything else AA and the recovery industry espoused. But part of it bothered me. As I was slowly gaining more doubts about my JW religion, I could see similarities between it and AA. It reminded me of a cultlike mentality that said that if you quit going to meetings, you would eventually drink again and it would be worse than ever, and you will die from it. The JW counterpart said that if you quit going to meetings, you would become worse than ever and you would die at the big A.

I can say that AA helped me, but I no longer buy into the disease concept......which brings us up to today! There is another approach to quiting drinking for good if one wants to. It is called RATIONAL RECOVERY. The founder and author is Jack Trimpey and you can see all about it at http://rational.org/

This is what I now use if I find myself wanting to drink again. It blows the whole idea of alcholism as a disease and the "you have to go to 12 step meetings or you will drink yourself to death" concept completely out of the water.

AVRT (addictive voice recognition technique) is what RR espouses and as far as I am concerned, it is the best way of rehab ever. So for anyone reading this, check it out on the web. Buy the book and quit drinking for good if that is what you want to do. People have used RR for alchohol, drugs, smoking, etc. Who knows? Maybe someone might even break free from the WT mind control using AVRT. lol

HappyDad (of the non-drinking, having a good time and good life class) ------->for me.

blondie

Everyone has different experiences.

I have been associated with AA, Al-Anon, and ACOA in my area for over 20 years. While alcoholism is called a disease, I have heard it explained over and over that it is

15% disease (or genetic tendency)

85% choice

It is a little harder for the alcoholic but in no way an impediment to recovery.

Blondie

Amazing1914

Hi Sirona,

Good question. As pointed out by Abaddon, there is a genetic link to alcoholism. Though, a peson without the link can end up an alcoholic by years of drinking too much. Alcoholism is both a disease of the body and the mind.

Responsibility: Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) has never sought to excuse the problem because of recognizing it as a disease. Rather, AA is all about taking life one day at a time, taking stock of one's life, and making amends for the harm caused by the disease. They also learn to accept the consequences of their drinking, and try to live by the prayer,

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference."

You noted: " ... or they are responsible because they unfortunately have the addiction gene and chose to drink to excess."

Alcoholism is Insideous: Unfortunately, alcoholics have no clue that they have an addiction gene. They do not "choose" to drink "knowing" that they will have a problem with alcohol. However, once they begin drinking, they most often do not realize what they are doing to themselves until years later, when they are a considerable ways down the road, or hit "bottom."

Treatment: AA is there to help those who finally realize that they need to take some responsibility for themselves, and to begin to get treatment for the disease. Even then, many alcoholics do not realize they need help, and so family and friends along with a trained counselor will conduct an "intervention" to force the alcoholic to see they they need help. Treatment can often involve a stay in a de-tox center, with medical help. Then a long road of recovery.

Millons of people have dealt successfully with the problem ... but, many millions more need serious help.

Jim W.

Alcoholism - a disease or a choice?

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