i gotta know.... what was the wierdest or craziest things you saw people do or say during a jc?.
example... i swore if i was ever called into a jc again... i would wait about 10 minutes into the meeting, stand up and pull my pants down to my ankles, throw a chair through the plate glass windows in the "backroom" and then jump out screaming "get away from me....aaahhg!
" i would make sure there were witnesses in the hall to see it.. i want only real experiences.... u/d
Unless, that is, the elder handed his phone to another! My memory isn't the best, but probably the guy confessed after being faced with it.
This could be an actual thread all it's own: What would you say if your cell phone called an elder while you were wildly committing fornication--and he faced you with it? Thoughts anyone?
i gotta know.... what was the wierdest or craziest things you saw people do or say during a jc?.
example... i swore if i was ever called into a jc again... i would wait about 10 minutes into the meeting, stand up and pull my pants down to my ankles, throw a chair through the plate glass windows in the "backroom" and then jump out screaming "get away from me....aaahhg!
" i would make sure there were witnesses in the hall to see it.. i want only real experiences.... u/d
The only really bizarre thing that I remember was the way in which one man was brought before us. He was having sex with someone in his car when he accidentally bumped his cell phone and it called one of my fellow elders. When the elder picked up his phone, he could see who it was from the Caller ID feature and could clearly hear the sexual moaning and wailing of a female on the other end--as well as this publisher's voice.
There you have it: Instant Judicial Committee. One of the elders on the committee had a seriously difficult time keeping himself from laughing very hard throughout the proceedings.
when i was 16 i started working on improving my vocabulary.. at first i was just trying to show off.
instead of gaining clarity in my speech and writing; i obfuscated through verbosity.
(just like that sentence!).
Anyone reading my posts will find I frequently comment on the subject of human temperament. Our differences fascinate me. The present understanding is that we are all born with a "temperament," that our life's experience brings "character," and the merging of the two results in our own distinct "personality." Similarly it seems clear to me that different people possess different fixations. Were we born with it, or was a deep impression made upon us in youth? Either way, we focus on certain things more and other things less.
As a child it was clear to my teachers that I was preoccupied with all things verbal. It's still clear to my friends, many of whom like to tease me over my use of words with which they're unfamiliar. I imagine that this preoccupation was what caused me to make my career in broadcasting, then later as a writer. While my writing has been primarily confined to advertising, I've spent many years learning how to create campaigns that are both different and verbally engaging. (At least to me.) But I'm convinced that what is underneath this fixation is less a peculiar love of words--and more a deep desire to be understood. Sure, I've come to love words, but only as a means to an end. I've been aware since my late teens that nothing is more stimulating (to me) than my reflecting on something not usually expressed, articulating it thoughtfully, and (this is the really good part) receiving nods, smiles and appreciative comments in return.
Ironically, as an Idealist, I'm also preoccupied with authenticity. I simply hate the idea of my coming across as affected. Therefore, although I will occasionally use words others don't know, more often I am trying to express complex thoughts as simply as possible.
Terry, I share your thoughts on how most people express themselves today. I'm constantly surprised at how few people are capable of putting words together well. As you wrote, we all make mistakes, but when every third word is misspelled, and when there is no adherence to the basic rules of grammar, it can be shocking. It seems clear to me that many of these people are not unintelligent; they just don't place importance on such things. And perhaps it's because, for one reason or another, they were not emphasized strongly to them when young. Or perhaps because they don't have the same need I have: to be understood.
just found out about this.
you can read all about it at www.knocking.org, but here is the homepage intro... from a handful of bible students in pennsylvania to 7 million members worldwide today, the christian group has ministered door-to-door for 130 years.
typically dismissed as a controversial sect, the much-derided jehovah's witnesses lack respect and seem irrelevant.
Please understand that the producer, Joel Engardio, is a Witness. So by no means is this an objective project. How he got federal funding, I don't know, but if the government can create a budget for studying the mating rituals of the Howler Monkey, anything's possible. It's slated to air on PBS sometime in 2006.
just found out about this.
you can read all about it at www.knocking.org, but here is the homepage intro... from a handful of bible students in pennsylvania to 7 million members worldwide today, the christian group has ministered door-to-door for 130 years.
typically dismissed as a controversial sect, the much-derided jehovah's witnesses lack respect and seem irrelevant.
Just found out about this. You can read all about it at www.knocking.org, but here is the homepage intro...
From a handful of Bible students in Pennsylvania to 7 million members worldwide today, the Christian group has ministered door-to-door for 130 years. Typically dismissed as a controversial “sect,” the much-derided Jehovah's Witnesses lack respect and seem irrelevant. But KNOCKING reveals their surprising and beneficial impact on society.
Though Jehovah’s Witnesses do not agree with every group it has inadvertently helped along the way, their apolitical nature fosters a “live and let” live model of how groups with increasingly polarizing religious and social views can coexist. Unlike other religions, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not try to legislate their beliefs – they feel there is plenty of room on the block for peaceful circulation of ideas. KNOCKING is a federally funded documentary intended for national broadcast on PBS in 2006, theatrical release and educational/home distribution.
"Peaceful circulation of ideas?" Now that is a fascinating combination of guts and cluelessness.
hey ya everybody im new here just saying hi good to be here.. and i need some help if thats ok. i have been studying for about a year and know its the truth etc...but im not babtised.
but want to be...i need some help about family issues.... i wasent brought up in the truth and neither were/and are my mum and dad.
i know i shouldnt do this but i am.
Yes, James, I believe there is a God. That's one thing we have to get over: the thinking the Watchtower Society promotes that belief in God is fruitless apart from belief in their human, organizational hierarchy. The other thing we need to get over? That being a Christian means having all the answers. When we come to the realization that the Society is not what it purports to be, a common reaction is...
"Well who DOES have the truth?"
Jehovah's Witnesses will often quote the apostle who, when asked by Jesus if he would continue following him, said...
"Lord, who are we to go away to? You have the sayings of everlasting life."
James, remember that this scripture has application for us today. Who was the apostle cleaving to? An organization? Or to Jesus himself? Let me share with you the one scripture that hit me like a machete to the skull when I first gave myself permission to give this organization an objective investigation this past August. Yes, I was previously an elder. I was someone who gave talks at all the area Kingdom Halls. I served on Judicial Committees that decided whether or not to disfellowship or reprove other JWs. I felt I pretty much always had the answers. But when someone asked me about this scripture, I had no reply. Look it up. It's in Mark 9:38-40. I'll quote it in part here...
"John said to him: "Teacher, we saw a certain man expelling demons by the use of your name and we tried to prevent him, because he was not accompanying us." But Jesus said, "Do not try to prevent him.....for he that is not against us is for us.""
So John thought that anyone "not accompanying us" must not be approved to minister to others on behalf of Jesus. But obviously this is not what Jesus himself taught. "He that is not against us is for us." If you don't already understand, you will soon find out that this is quite precisely the opposite of what is taught at the Kingdom Hall. I'm going to copy a couple of appropriate paragraphs from some other notes I made as I was going through this whole process myself several months ago.
-------
At 38 years of age and having lived as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses my entire life, I came to believe that the only way to be found acceptable by God is to be a dedicated, baptized member of this organization. While this is a teaching of the organization, it is also true that the Watchtower Society definitely stresses the need to "make the Truth your own." When non JWs would ask me, "So do you believe that only Jehovah’s Witnesses will get into God’s Kingdom?" I would answer in a typically diplomatic fashion.
"Only God knows who he will and will not allow into His kingdom; that decision certainly isn’t up to us. We do recognize though that He does not accept just any form of worship. We also know that the Bible teaches the road to life is ‘narrow and cramped and few would be finding it,’ while the road to destruction would be ‘broad and spacious and many would be finding it.’ So it’s reasonable to believe that most people are not on that road to life, and it’s probably unreasonable to think that a religion is the right one simply because so many people are members." So, while we craft an answer that we hope will result in less controversy, the truth is—yes, Jehovah’s Witnesses do in fact believe that (among those living today) only those in this organization will enter God’s Kingdom.
---
So you see the difference between Jesus words at Mark chapter 9, and what is taught at the Kingdom Hall? If it isn't obvious to you now, it soon will be: you will understand that this organization truly believes you must be a baptized, dedicated member of the Jehovah's Witnesses, attending all meetings regularly and having a fuller and fuller share in the field ministry in order to be found acceptable by God and worthy of entry into his Kingdom. From the Watchtower Society's perspective you definitely need to "be with us."
hey ya everybody im new here just saying hi good to be here.. and i need some help if thats ok. i have been studying for about a year and know its the truth etc...but im not babtised.
but want to be...i need some help about family issues.... i wasent brought up in the truth and neither were/and are my mum and dad.
i know i shouldnt do this but i am.
James, I'm glad you read the post--and that you found some of our comments here helpful. I leave you with this... If you continue to study and associate with Jehovah's Witnesses, please pay very careful attention to your heart and mind. As I wrote before, please understand that being a JW requires recognition of the Watchtower Society as the sole channel of communication from God to humankind--and as such requires unqualified submission to whatever they say as regards the decisions you make in your life.
Yes, at times you'll hear things that seem to suggest they are not unnecessarily restrictive. They may draw parallels with some ridiculous ancient law that forbade Jews from swatting a fly on the Sabbath because that would be considered "hunting." True, that WAS ridiculous. Perhaps even more petty than most of the things the Watchtower does today. But that doesn't mean the policies they enforce on their adherents are justified--or by any means Christian. Such reasoning is a type of Red Herring; an exaggeration people point to to demonstrate that their own actions aren't all that bad by comparison. James, if you're a Christian, your standard for what is right and wrong should be (just as the Watchtower Society often says itself) the Bible. Not an organization of men. But, again, if you pay close attention, you'll find that individuals in this organization have given over their Christian consciences to the dictates of the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society. Consider an example pointed to in the book, Crisis of Conscience. I'll paraphrase.
The Watchtower Society has often changed its views on what types of blood-related medical procedures should be considered acceptable by Jehovah's Witnesses. Many doctors have noted that when JWs decline such procedures, they can't explain why. They refuse them because the Society has told them they should. When a doctor informs a JW patient that the procedure they have been steadfastly refusing is now acceptable to the Watchtower Society, the patient responds happily and instantly, then allowing the procedure. Did they know exactly why they were refusing the procedure? Not really. Did they care why the Watchtower Society had now approved the procedure? Not really. The fact is (whether they realize it or not) they have allowed this organization of men to replace their own conscience--something that is definitely condemned in the Bible.
Now, James, if you decide to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses, it will no doubt be because you have been persuaded to believe that the Society is in fact representing the Faithful and Discreet Slave that Jesus described. Okay. You certainly don't need any of us to tell you that deciding this is your right. But do yourself a favor and make really sure you are in touch with all of the reasons why you've decided they are this "Slave." Understand that no human agency could ever have such a lofty title, and since this is the case, again, you'd better be positive you know why you should hand your personal conscience over to them.
Also remember that, when people discover serious--and often heinous--things about the Watchtower Society, you are not likely to hear them in your everyday life. Certainly not at meetings or in private conversations with JWs you know. Why? Because when a person sees the dirty underbelly and is willing to tell the story--the organization descends upon him or her like a pack of starving hyenas on an elderly antelope. They are shunned and you never get to hear their stories. But you will hear them within this and many other internet forums--and even in the national news media from time to time. Don't let them scare you from considering ALL the information. You've a right to it, James!
Becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses is not like becoming a Methodist or Presbyterian. You see, there is a point of no return, and that is (basically) baptism. Once you are baptized, you can't get out easily. Trust me on this one thing, I'm nearly forty years old--and have accomplished a number of things in my life thus far. Getting out of this organization unscathed is going to be the most difficult thing I've ever done in my life. It is requiring that I move my life across country. And even that doesn't guarantee anything for me.
My best to you in whatever you decide to do.
hey ya everybody im new here just saying hi good to be here.. and i need some help if thats ok. i have been studying for about a year and know its the truth etc...but im not babtised.
but want to be...i need some help about family issues.... i wasent brought up in the truth and neither were/and are my mum and dad.
i know i shouldnt do this but i am.
Easier said than done, Avishai... Ever try engineering your 17 year old's associates? I'm not going to emulate the Watchtower Society by demonizing those I don't agree with. I realize the danger here, but need to keep communication open between us.
what is the saddest song that brings tears to your eyes just about every time you hear it?
mine is harry chapin's cats in the cradle
Just found this thread, but no way could I read through all seven pages...so I hope this isn't a duplication. I debated over two songs, but voted against "Seasons in the Sun" by Terry Jacks--and in favor of "Seventeen" by Janis Ian. This song is just so sad and pathetic to me, and I was never even a teenage girl!
I LEARNED THE TRUTH AT SEVENTEEN
THAT LOVE WAS MEANT FOR BEAUTY QUEENS
AND HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS WITH CLEAR SKINNED SMILES
WHO MARRIED YOUNG AND THEN RETIRED
THE VALENTINES I NEVER KNEW
THE FRIDAY NIGHT CHARADES OF YOUTH
WERE SPENT ON ONE MORE BEAUTIFUL
AT SEVENTEEN I LEARNED THE TRUTH
AND THOSE OF US WITH RAVAGED FACES
LACKING IN THE SOCIAL GRACES
DESPERATELY REMAINED AT HOME
INVENTING LOVERS ON THE PHONE
WHO CALLED TO SAY - COME DANCE WITH ME
AND MURMURED VAGUE OBSCENITIES
IT ISN'T ALL IT SEEMS AT SEVENTEEN
A BROWN EYED GIRL IN HAND ME DOWNS
WHOSE NAME I NEVER COULD PRONOUNCE
SAID - PITY PLEASE THE ONES WHO SERVE
THEY ONLY GET WHAT THEY DESERVE
THE RICH RELATIONED HOMETOWN QUEEN
MARRIES INTO WHAT SHE NEEDS
WITH A GUARANTEE OF COMPANY
AND HAVEN FOR THE ELDERLY
SO REMEMBER THOSE WHO WIN THE GAME
LOSE THE LOVE THEY SOUGHT TO GAIN
IN DEBENTURES OF QUALITY AND DUBIOUS INTEGRITY
THEIR SMALL-TOWN EYES WILL GAPE AT YOU
IN DULL SURPRISE WHEN PAYMENT DUE
EXCEEDS ACCOUNTS RECEIVED AT SEVENTEEN
(INSTRUMENTAL)
TO THOSE OF US WHO KNEW THE PAIN
OF VALENTINES THAT NEVER CAME
AND THOSE WHOSE NAMES WERE NEVER CALLED
WHEN CHOOSING SIDES FOR BASKETBALL
IT WAS LONG AGO AND FAR AWAY
THE WORLD WAS YOUNGER THAN TODAY
WHEN DREAMS WERE ALL THEY GAVE FOR FREE
TO UGLY DUCKLING GIRLS LIKE ME
WE ALL PLAY THE GAME, AND WHEN WE DARE
WE CHEAT OURSELVES AT SOLITAIRE
INVENTING LOVERS ON THE PHONE
REPENTING OTHER LIVES UNKNOWN
THAT CALL AND SAY - COME DANCE WITH ME
AND MURMUR VAGUE OBSCENITIES
AT UGLY GIRLS LIKE ME, AT SEVENTEEN
hey ya everybody im new here just saying hi good to be here.. and i need some help if thats ok. i have been studying for about a year and know its the truth etc...but im not babtised.
but want to be...i need some help about family issues.... i wasent brought up in the truth and neither were/and are my mum and dad.
i know i shouldnt do this but i am.
Thanks for your comments, folks... Things are weird now, but I'm surprised they're not weirder. After finding a couple documents in my computer, my daughter was basically in bed for two days. She seemed to do better for awhile--then that weekend she called me up. I was on business in Chicago, but had gone to a Cubs game. She called my cell while I was at Wrigley, asking me hysterically,
"Dad, I just want to know: Is Armageddon coming or isn't it??!!"
It was incredibly heartbreaking. I did everything I could to comfort her over the phone. Then a week later she told me, "I just want you to be happy, Dad." The problem here is she doesn't get how serious things will be for me should certain ones in the congregation discover my current position. She doesn't understand a lot, it's clear. But I've tried my best to explain, without being bitter. I've told her that I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that the organization is not what it purports to be, but that i will support her in whatever she decides to do. I just want her to know that she should be able to have ALL the information--yes even the information the Watchtower Society would threaten her to stay away from.
The other thing working against her is that, for about the last year or so, she has struck up a very strong fondness for a group of Witness youths in California--and that's where she and I are moving together over the 4th of July weekend. She has never really felt a part of the young people in our congregations, so this has been very important to her. To move out to California, join this group of fun, hip, Witness kids, and be in "The Truth." Right now her desire to be a part of this group may be stronger than anything else. The future is going to be tough. No telling how this will play out.
