NC - re dementia comments. Never thought of it like that. Thank you. Hope you don't mind if I share that idea with some friends elsewhere. I love this forum and those that post on it.
Posts by Qcmbr
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233A reason why most religious theological teachings are sociologically dangerous and damaging
by thetrueone injust caught this short video of christopher hitchens in a debate involving religious theology and i thought.
how close it came to the jw theology and its own inherent sociological and psychological damage that it causes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ygqfr3sem&feature=related.
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233
A reason why most religious theological teachings are sociologically dangerous and damaging
by thetrueone injust caught this short video of christopher hitchens in a debate involving religious theology and i thought.
how close it came to the jw theology and its own inherent sociological and psychological damage that it causes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ygqfr3sem&feature=related.
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Qcmbr
Sab - all that is of use to society in religion has been copied from already working systems. There is nothing that the supernatural explanation has added to mankind except for those at the top of the divine ponzi scheme. Millennia have been wasted in worship of wood, stone and false thought.
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233
A reason why most religious theological teachings are sociologically dangerous and damaging
by thetrueone injust caught this short video of christopher hitchens in a debate involving religious theology and i thought.
how close it came to the jw theology and its own inherent sociological and psychological damage that it causes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ygqfr3sem&feature=related.
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Qcmbr
All religion is based upon behaviour modification. A set of rules is provided, a set of morals, a hierarchical command structure (god the father ), a resource gathering mechanism ( e.g tithing), mind altering trance inducing steps ( hymns, prayers, favourite scriptures) , a surrogate family with its own outsider excluding language ( saints v worldly people, brotherhood) , false social tensions to generate action ( end time, persecution, apostasy , temptation ) , weakening of previous bonds ( avoid non-believers, critics, unbelieving family ) and a reconstruction of self ( baptism to signify death of old you, Christ in the heart, awakened third eye .) even a religion of one will display these memes.
I cannot think of one religion that truly focuses upon the individual's free will and the development of skeptical thinking.
Should science teach us ? Absolutely - what is the alternative? That we ignore information gathered from an observance of the natural world, ignore the results of repeated tests and choose to be ignorant as to the mechanism by which things happen and the way nature is expressed? Only when we see such things as love, hope, joy, relationships, memory, thought, consciousness and so on as emergent properties of natural mechanical systems guided by chemical interactions and moulded into subjective perceptions of reality will we be able to approach the true magnificence of human life and learn to take control of ourselves finally freeing ourselves from the supernatural and feeble explanations of the mystics and shamans from our barbaric and superstitious past.
Imo.
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233
A reason why most religious theological teachings are sociologically dangerous and damaging
by thetrueone injust caught this short video of christopher hitchens in a debate involving religious theology and i thought.
how close it came to the jw theology and its own inherent sociological and psychological damage that it causes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ygqfr3sem&feature=related.
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Qcmbr
To believers: are you happy to teach something as absolutely true based upon no physical proof greater than your inner subjective experience and in the full knowledge that it will be less effective in all areas of life where it attempts to supplant natural / mechanical solutions? If you are happy that this is an acceptable basis upon which to pass on behaviour modifying information and you will do so to the skeptic and the gullible, the innocent and the wise then this is the reason why you are a danger to society.
Until you can see why this is unacceptable and morally irresponsible then you are the problem. Religion / supernatural thought allows the untrained and foolish to pose as a learned teacher and to bypass the social rigours of education, training and peer review that serve to weed out the unready, inexperienced and the loon. We have some prime wannabe teachers here who see themselves as great preachers passing on divine wisdom as humble servants (ha) when in reality they purvey mental chloroform that will stupify and halt the intellectual progress of those caught in the web. For many, religious thought is a beautiful mental suicide as they cease to be responsible for the world around them but for society it is an abject tragedy as another spark of life sputters into wasteful worship of a Wotan, Zeus, Jehovah , Allah and Quetzalcoatl.
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Qcmbr
I agree
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100
Are you an athiest and why?
by LouBelle ini'm interested in finding out people's reasons as to why they are athiest.. i have simply through life experience, my research into religions over the years come to that conclusion.
never thought i would come to a day that i did not believe in a god.
believing in a god is like believing in super man, it would be great if he existed but well it's just a fairy tale.
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Qcmbr
Jesus will murder his way through the second coming in a spectacular bloodfest matched in scale only by a global extinction event orchestrated by the butcher Elohim during Noah's time. The audacity of having had to plan both these mass killings in advance, prophesying for years they were coming and then ensuring that everything required to fulfil them is/was methodically put in place as signs while using the most pathetic and unreliable means to warn people of supposed escape routes ( ensuring most people will have no access to them either for geographical , age or cultural reasons ) smacks of a brutal pair of psycho baby killers.
They sold this whole idea as a benevolent, loving thing to billions of people as well. Religion - advertising at its best. Jesus and Jehovah lovingly slaughtering people for 7000 years.
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Youtube Video: Romney and Religion: Is America Ready for a Mormon President?
by OnTheWayOut ini am glad some people are saying the things i have thought about a mormon running for president of the usa:.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iemmttjeuo8&list=uunzitcpd7wgvn80trrb8rcq&index=1&feature=plcp.
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Qcmbr
I think it's hard to be widely successful in any public sphere without being able to keep a verbal distance between your faith and your Recorded statements. Santorum crosses that line continually and so is almost certain to be unsuccessful as a presidential candidate. Romney would be unelectable if he ever appeared in public wearing his temple robes or spoke even remotely in defence of a Mormon specific policy ( like intervening to get missionary access to a country in return for foreign aid ) and rightly so. I think to see how his religion influences his public life you need to look at his previous jobs.
What I see is the archetypal Mormon stake president - stake presidents are generally elected ( cough chosen by the spirit) because they are negotiators, fiscally sound, have a solid traditional family relationship, loyal to authority, not boat rockers, good listeners and father like. As a SP you need to sit through the trials and tribulations of congregation members as they come to confessional style meetings where the SP is guided to balance mercy and judgement with the overall aim of getting individuals to fix their spiritual and physical lives and become mentally and materially self sufficient. As such Mitt will be quite in touch with the arguments put forward by different sectors of society ( albeit working class, middle class and cash class Mormons.) in short Mitt's strength will never be on the stage it will be in the post address strategy meeting. This is a problem for him as President - the calm, negotiator stle leadership that serves well in mormondom isn't necessarily what is useful for leading a nation where a bit of fire and inspirational chutzpah are often critical ( Churchill, Napoleon, Reagan etc).
Should Romney get elected, other than a hardening of the 'gays destroy marriage' tripe, it's hard to see what part of current Mormon theology will affect his stances given that the church heirarchy is currently scrambling to erase its socially crippling past and present a mainstream, apple-pie religion. Mormonism has a laid back cockiness about itself in stark contrast to the more sensationalist evangelical movements or the doom laden JWs. Mormonism isn't overly obsessed about the second coming or in putting in place rapture/ Armageddon scenarios partially because it put in place extra unachievable steps as signs of the times ( like building an actual Zion in Missouri) so with those mental buffers they don't need to sweat about the other nastier signs of the times, I.e. the second coming isn't just around the corner.
While many may mock the concept of becoming a god it has one very positive side effect. Mormon teachings see this life as being a place to self improve and get ready for great responsibility by self sufficiency, education and life success. These fit quite well with core republican aims. Mormonism also has quite a practical side to it involving preparation ( food storage etc) and charity ( Welfare Square ) which is partially why Romney wouldn't have struggled to pass Romneycare and could live with Obamacare ( it's not fundamentally a bad program - its just not a clearly costed program.) Mormonism is strong on self sufficiency and always tries to tie charity to enabling the recipient to pay back ( so a family getting its groceries paid will be expected to go clean the church for a few hours each week etc ) however, the church also will give untied aid when the need is urgent rather than long term. Mormonism is a good synthesis of Republican' work for what you get' and the Democrats 'compassionate state' approaches. In fact historical Mormonism has closer roots to Communism than many might know ( see United Order ) even though recent church leaders have shown near hatred of Russian Communism.
Lets finally look at the most Mormon views that could cause issues for a Mormon president:
1/ marriage - Mormonism cannot allow Romney to champion legalising gay marriage since it has tied itself to that mast. Gay marriage is also seen as a gateway to polygamous marriage the legalisation of which could kill the Mormon church from within.
2/ American exceptionalism. - Mormons really believe the New Jerusalem will be built in the US. America is part of Gods divine plan ergo it's rights must always be placed over other countries. Note Mitt's hard line stance against Russia and China. He will fight passionately to ensure America wins in trade and all international exchanges. Might make a Mitt more extreme than an Obama.
3/ social provision - expect to see this cut. Mormonism ultimately hates to waste money unless it can see a reciprocal 'improvement' in the individual. There is little tolerance for free loading or laziness. Expect a Mitt to push workfare over welfare.
4/ education - apart from ID which Mitt would potentially push but not as much as Santorum the educational system would be in good hands. Mormons like education.
5/ the biggie. Will the Mormon church try and influence public policy. Publically definitely no ( political and social suicide for Mitt and the church ) but privately - hmmmm - if you mix socially on a regular basis with Mormon aristocracy how can you not be having an influence? The most powerful person in the world will now be a phone call or an interview away from the Mormon prophet. Whatever Mitt says publically , for a true Mormon, the prophet trumps the public ( to be fair that has to be a ditto for a strong Catholic and the pope.) It is not inconceivable that a Mormon prophet could demand certain things ( Either through illness or an inflated sense of moment - and we have some nasty, arrogant bar stewards in the Mormon heirarchy) that would cause Mitt to need to either resign or do something stupid. What does a Mormon president do in a nuclear crisis if the prophet says god wants a preemptive strike? Not a good pressure in a hot moment. When it comes to government you can't afford to have a potential unelected loose cannon influencing the leader no matter how unlikely that is. Mormons truly believe they are the only true church and that they really are being led by direct revelation from heaven. Imagine some of our more convinced true believers on this forum being in charge of the country. Maybe very lovely 99% of the time but utterly capable of getting a 'message' at any time and ignoring all evidence basing action upon it.
Quite unsettling.
Personally,I'd stick with Obama and get Mitt into a financial management role.
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100
Are you an athiest and why?
by LouBelle ini'm interested in finding out people's reasons as to why they are athiest.. i have simply through life experience, my research into religions over the years come to that conclusion.
never thought i would come to a day that i did not believe in a god.
believing in a god is like believing in super man, it would be great if he existed but well it's just a fairy tale.
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Qcmbr
I ran out of excuses for Zeus
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49
How would atheists respond to this?
by Knowsnothing inhttp://www.everystudent.com/wires/godreal.html.
british philosopher, dr. antony flew, has been a leading spokesperson for atheism, actively involved in debate after debate.
however, scientific discoveries within the last 30 years brought him to a conclusion he could not avoid.
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Qcmbr
Software reflects the mind that designed it. As we become better at computer problems we write better software. If DNA is evidence of god then apparently god , several hundreds of millions of years ago, was the equivalent of a 10 year old with a zx-spectrum programming pong from a magazine and before that he only had an abacus.
One feature of software and human design is the ability to start from scratch. No such evidence exists within DNA and all life shows significant common ancestry even when that ancestry causes problems or is manifest in poor design ( human back should really be re- engineered, human eye needs fixing etc.) software shows human traits such as play ( I always try and add a padMe() function in homage to star wars)), commenting ( to explain intent), experimentation (prototypes), bug fixes ( specific changes to fix specific manifest issues ), refactoring ( rewriting entire sections at once), irreducible complexity ( program's can rarely be reduced to independently functioning subsystems , for a program to work it needs a perfect copy of each required library or it won't compile .) I could go on but it's clear to me that DNA was never designed in the way software is.
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Mormons in decline because of the Internet
by slimboyfat ininteresting article.
i've often thought empirically mormons have an even harder sell than jws.
the watchtower merely falsifies the date of the fall of jerusalem.
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Qcmbr
My evidence that the uk is collapsing :
1/ of the 170+ people I baptised on my mission in the UK 0 are still active when I last checked.
2/ in my home ward we had an average attendance of 140 when I used to believe. This is now 100. This is over a 5 year period where about 15 people joined the local church.
3/ during that 5 year period 4 core families went less active (3 with returned missionaries), 2 more core families are suffering divorces where one spouse is now less active. Half of the above post with me on Facebook and we've had very illuminating chats.
4/ several members have come to me - online and face to face - to try and reason with me to return and have therefore been introduced to NOM and MormonThink. Bishop had to ask me to stop talking to one guy as he had gone to bishop now sufferring doubts.
5/ discussions online go far further than anything said quickly one on one in private and there have been lots of flashpoint discussions especially over the uk gay marriage laws. Most born in members of the church are fairly well educated and socially aware and seem embarrassed to defend anti gay church dogma just as those who know about the racial history of the church normally fall back to an admission of no understanding but that god works in mysterious ways.
6/ most members have computers and are very active in a social sense. It is only a matter of time before they see material that traditional methods cannot present ( they'd need to buy books, go to library or read anti Mormon pamphlets ). There has been no significant church response to the scientific and historical evidence of the church's dubious origins.
7/ small indicators of general indifference exist - weakening of the attendance criteria to be considered active, fewer home teaching visits, falling church magazine orders, temple sessions regularly cancelled due to low attendance, youth activities are now more 'worldly' to keep kids interest, general conference is now seen by many as a day off at the beach ( they can always listen online after ;) . Generally the zeal and confidence are gone, talks from the stand are much less doctrinal and much more focused on love and family.