Simon - just to make you feel a bit better. Pretty much all men do it (I'll let ladies speak for themselves) including the other Elders in your congregation. Remember that if you ever get hauled into the back office for a chat.
Posts by Qcmbr
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100Need Some Tough Love & Help
by Simon Morley innot sure how to approach this but here goes.....my wife discovered a porn site on the computer tonight.
yes, i was going to them, and i was foolish to think i could never get caught.
i have been visiting them for some years, not a daily problems, but occasionaly every month or so - still a problem wethere its once or a hundred times.
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100
Need Some Tough Love & Help
by Simon Morley innot sure how to approach this but here goes.....my wife discovered a porn site on the computer tonight.
yes, i was going to them, and i was foolish to think i could never get caught.
i have been visiting them for some years, not a daily problems, but occasionaly every month or so - still a problem wethere its once or a hundred times.
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Qcmbr
As a believer I was chaste and good (no porn or masturbation or impure thoughts) for 99.99% of the time which in hindsight was astonishing and the result of no internet access till after my mission (finished when I was 21) plus an intense level of religious indoctrination, ironically it was a church lesson when I was in Young men's (age 12) which first introduced me to the concept of masturbation and led to an experiment that afternoon. That's how controlled my worldview was. After every masturbation event I went to the Bishop to confess. 5 or so visits in total. Age 36 before I finally figured my faith was a sham. After each Bishop visit I would be wracked with guilt, torn with self loathing and disgust and would resort to quite unusual extremes to try and redraw the boundary again and prove myself worthy o forgiveness (I'd throw out books , commit to additional scripture study, enter newspaper shops with my eyes glued to the ground and so on.)
As a woken up rational thinker I found something interesting. Almost everything, with common sense, can be seen to have a place. Stripped of its taboo nature porn is much less enticing, there is no secret thrill involved in looking. It makes sense that porn is made powerful by banning it. Now I can see something pornographic and I barely even notice it whereas when it was forbidden it was like a magnetic. No wonder Victorian prudes went into paroxysms of sexual climax when they caught sight of an uncovered ankle. Frankly most pornography is uninteresting and not titilating at all - whereas before it all was. There are times when pornography has played a useful part in my sex life but in reality even that is fading as I find it a bit naff.
If you can imagine a buffet laid out in front of you which if you overindulge in any one food group will make you ill over time (yes even the vegetables if eaten soley will cause problems) and which so called 'sinful' activities act as garnishes. A little salt makes food delicious, too much makes it nasty. A little lust can be wonderful and fulfilling, a little excitement can bring colour and meaning to the bland filling of life. Religious thinking spends so much time trying to 'gild the lily' that it turns that which can be beautiful and enriching (sexual behaviour including the desire to make sexual display!) into something tawdry and guilt laden.
Religion is all about power (this is one reason why your wife wants to tell your daughter - she wants to place you in a mentally submissive state where she can dictate your behaviour - which some people like ;) It doesn't matter whether you are a JW or a Mormon, they all want to control teh authentic you and make you into a Stepford wife/husband - emasculated and a slave.
Practical - you need to man up. Stop pity partying and panicking. You are a grown up. Your body is your exclusive property and you share who you are with your family but you are not owned by them. Use this crisis to decide who you want to be. If you want to revert to a closet sexual being controlled by a religion then grovel, plead, beg for forgiveness, shed tears and forever by tempted by the delights you are denied (pro tip - no amount of extreme porn avoidance techniques you add to your behaviour will work long term - you are a sexual being subject to hormones, biological rhythms and an extreme, natural drive to procreate - no religion or artificial control can ever destroy that - it requires chemical castration!) If you however, choose to own who you are, then lay down the boundaries, let your wife play out any of her control games (ultimately - grit your teeth here - your wife will either leave you or stay and either way you will have your answer about the true state of your marriage) and make sure that you never let anyone smash your spirit again. If you like a bit of porn every now and then, do it (privately of course) and just get the urge out of your system and carry on. Do this and you'll be a much better husband and a much better man becasue you are at peace with who you are rather than always running from your biological self. If you ever find yourself being addicted to porn (or anything for that matter) or you find your authentic self is into unlawful stuff or is warping your view of yourself and other people then seek professional help as addiction / law breaking / negative social behaviour is a real problem.
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100
Need Some Tough Love & Help
by Simon Morley innot sure how to approach this but here goes.....my wife discovered a porn site on the computer tonight.
yes, i was going to them, and i was foolish to think i could never get caught.
i have been visiting them for some years, not a daily problems, but occasionaly every month or so - still a problem wethere its once or a hundred times.
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Qcmbr
Oh wow, I so want to ring you up for a heart to heart. Gotta go out shopping now but I'm going to post something that I hope will be useful for you when I get back.
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6
Worlds Saddest Internet Argument Techniques
by Elsewhere inhttp://www.cracked.com/funny-3809-internet-argument-techniques/.
how to combat these techniquesthe important thing to remember is that you are dealing with a person who has essentially placed a twig on their head and expects you to believe they are a tree.
armored in that level of "confidence," almost anything you say will be construed by them as evidence that their tree disguise is working, so you will have to be very specific and to the point in addressing exactly what they're doing and why it's not fooling anyone.. subtlety and sarcasm are great tools but there is no way in hell they will get through to this poor sap.
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Qcmbr
Haha, guilty as charged !
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544
FINALLY! Can you prove God exists? If you can I won't ask again!
by punkofnice ini have seen debates and shizzle about god or not god etc etc.. i was even confronted by an aggressive and trheatening muslim in the street, who was angry that i wanted proof that god existed.
he ranted on a load of old b0110cks about 'hell' and stuff.
finally he yelled at me: 'do you want god to write your name in the sky?
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Qcmbr
Every God that mankind has made up, and you have to admit we have a stunning knack for it based upon the vast numbers that litter the annals of history, is designed with one major purpose; each god acts as a placeholder for the unknown. Thor does thunder, Poseidan the seas, Yahweh does all the animals and so on. As we explore our world and our knowledge increases these gods slip into history their job done to be replaced by reason and knowledge. Gods only survive when no better explanation exists.
Jehovah has retreated , for most Christians, from the animal maker ( evolution ), the sun maker ( gravity ), the earth flooder ( hydrological cycle ) and the Eden planter (geology, archaeology, palentological and astronomy.) Each Christian may or may not be defined by a brand but under the hood they align into loose groupings of what God's supposed existence answers for them. We have the xian deists who , lacking accurate knowledge of how something can come from nothing default to a Westernised divinity rather than something like Taoism, there are after lifers who need to know that there is a reward for life's pain, there are supernaturalists who want non medical explanations for dreams, voices and visions, pattern matchers who see order in everything and see coincidence as too ineffectual for the sorting they perceive, egotists who need something all powerful to explain why they are right despite contradiction, ignoramuses who are too lazy or fearful to study and want a justifiying authority for their lack of knowledge, bombasts and evangelisers who feel driven to speak up and need an explanation for that drive and emotionalists who feel the powerful tug of intuition and romantic ideals and seek a better explanation for their passion than mere chemical interactions and genetics.
For many of these belief drivers there are perfectly good answers and just as the Thunder gods slipped from social prominence the gods of emotion , answered prayer, weather control, earthquake causation and miracles are disappearing. Gods still hold powerful sway where science hasn't found demonstrable mechanisms in nature but expect to see the cessation of the abiogenetic god, the voices in the head god , healing god and the revelatory god as science moves human understanding on. Expect to see more Xians moving to the deistic, experimental observation or all knowing , idea and comfort giving god away from the visceral, involved, physical god of the Hebrews and early Xians.
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25
Mormon leaders reach out to gays, lesbian. I,am shocked!!
by jam inmormon leaders made their most signifcant outreach.
yet to gays and lesbians, unveiling a new website thursday.
that encourages church members to be more compassionate.
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Qcmbr
Hi Cold Steel,
I would agree, I am proceeding from the viewpoint that homosexuality is normal, by which I do not mean the majority but part of a spectrum of sexuality upon which we all exist.
It seems necessary to point out that pedophilia, bestiality and necrophilia all do not involve two consenting adults and secular society has matured to the point where we have provided laws to protect those with no voice. Homosexuality is nothing to do with this.
Lets look at the bible and think about what it talks about and who has interpreted it ( for example I'm fairly certain there is no specific word for homosexuality in the original authors languages so later translaters have added in what they think it says.) The bible authors' various cultures saw women as property and child marriage as the norm. Instructions for men to not lie with men as with women are more likely to refer to the selling of sex than a blanket ban on homosexual behaviour ( if you must apply your narrow definition then you at a sweep liberalise lesbian behaviour.) Sodom seems to portray a story where the men would be happy to rape anyone ( so bisexual), the biblical reference to men and women leaving their natural affections seems more apt as a condemnation of heterosexual orgies than a large group of exclusive homosexuals and then there is a whole world of the Catamites that you may be aware of (pederasty ) that could have been the subject of so called anti-gay scriptures.
While remaining on the bible don't forget god is happy to use incest as the basis of the foundational family unit (twice - Eden and Noah) , The righteous man Lot has an incestuous relationship with hs daughters, Mary is likely to be a child ( by our laws) when God impregnates her, David and Jonathon 's story seems a clear portrayal of a gay relationship, God rewards men with multiple wives in both biblical and Mormon times, rape is a legitimate biblical way to marry someone, divine genocidal wars spare only virgin women who can be used for sex, even Jesus has an odd relationship with John ( seriously, go look at it again!) , Paul advocates celibacy ( maybe the thorn in his flesh was in some way sexual?) , marriages are arranged according to status, interracial relationships are banned and the cause of sin, and women are legally property in biblical times, they could even be given as sexual partners if they were also unlucky enough to be slaves. In short , defining one man and one woman ( with both as equal partners) ,marrying simply for love ,as normal is about as far from biblical standards as you can get.
Homosexual behaviour is genetic in origin , but like all sex, it is nurtured and trained by culture and environment. Religion tries to put artificial boundaries on natural processes ascribing arbitrary rewards and punishments that shift the balance of power to favour those in power. Joseph Smith introduced polygamy to allow himself and later his trusted supporters sexual access to woman under their spiritual care. Did god reveal that a woman could select multiple males with her as head of the home? Of course not. God(s) always favour the ruling elite.
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25
Mormon leaders reach out to gays, lesbian. I,am shocked!!
by jam inmormon leaders made their most signifcant outreach.
yet to gays and lesbians, unveiling a new website thursday.
that encourages church members to be more compassionate.
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Qcmbr
Good discussion about this issue from the underground in LDS world:
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25
Mormon leaders reach out to gays, lesbian. I,am shocked!!
by jam inmormon leaders made their most signifcant outreach.
yet to gays and lesbians, unveiling a new website thursday.
that encourages church members to be more compassionate.
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Qcmbr
Cold Steel - having read your response the langauge you are using and the juxtaposition of ideas seems to suggest that you've accepted the Mormon view on sexuality (deviant!) Hopefully you'll consider that the rule you seem to promote (homosexuals must respect your space by not making a move on you) would mean that straight people could also not make advances (who knows when a straight person might make a move on a homosexual person and so not respect their sexual space!) You cannot advocate one rule for the privileged straight people and another for the minority homosexual or bisexual.
If you wish to be homophobic thats fine. What you must own is the cause of it and the consequences. The moment you start pretending that you can discriminate against someone and it is justified and loving you are wrong. Sexual gender preferences are not sins, mental disabilities or character failings. Any church that preaches that they are is a hate filled organisation - no matter what redeeming features they display elsewhere - because it takes that which is natural and turns it into a reason for discrimination (you cannot marry, you must live in secret etc.)
As a male you also may be unaware of the blatant anti woman discrimination in the church as well. Judgemental and heirarchical thinking begets further abuses. The Mormon church - and I still have great fondness for much of it - is riddled with status and privilege - those who can and those who can't - and it is a power play dressed up in a religious story. Please, please put aside that which you have learnt about homosexuality and examine why you think as you do.
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58
How many of you have lost your faith on JWN
by Most Noble injust curious, if anyone had lost faith whilst on jwn and do u think it is an honorable experience?..
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Qcmbr
This forum was a crucial tool in allowing me to sidestep faith based filters - I could examine ideas vicariously because they didn't directly attack Mormonism. Once I was comfortable with the idea that faith works on the same principles everywhere and all that changes are the words, rituals and dogma I could be more certain that my Mormon experiences were not exceptional. My testimony was no more special or from god than a JWs convictions, an evangelicals spiritual gifts and the Muslims fervour.
This forum toughened me up and taught me not to respect others supernatural claims. I'm much less gullible, much more skeptical and much happier now that I can see the power of rationality and facts as tools for trust v faith based woo. To those who maintain their faith despite facts evidence and common sense I give a cautious , if disappointed, 'good for you :S'.
Thanks to all who have helped me in my quest for self doubt and the fruits of questioning that faith would have robbed from me.
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25
Mormon leaders reach out to gays, lesbian. I,am shocked!!
by jam inmormon leaders made their most signifcant outreach.
yet to gays and lesbians, unveiling a new website thursday.
that encourages church members to be more compassionate.
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Qcmbr
Cold Steel - I think we Mormons are responsible for lots of hate speech , we just called it 'loving guidance from the Lord.' I received the "To Young Men Only " guide when I was in youth and it contained such 'gems' as this:
“It was intended that we use this power only with our partner in marriage. I repeat, very plainly, physical mischief with another man is forbidden. It is forbidden by the Lord.
“There are some men who entice young men to join them in these immoral acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.
“While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said he had something to confess. I was very worried because he just could not get himself to tell me what he had done.
“After patient encouragement he blurted out, ‘I hit my companion.’
“ ‘Oh, is that all,’ I said in great relief.
“ ‘But I floored him,” he said.
“After learning a little more [his companion was gay], my response was ‘Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn’t have been well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way.’
“I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself.”1976 General Authority , Boyd K Packer. Pamphlet for Young Men.
Edit: Just to add - as things stand he's next in line to lead the church.
