Posts by Qcmbr

85

Mormons getting hollowed out: The tipping point has occurred.

by Qcmbr in

ever since mitt romney turned the spotlight on the lds church a growing tsunami of disaffection has been accelerated and brought to a head.. the lds core faithful members are leaving in increasing numbers such that growth has not simply stagnated in the west but it has actively reversed.

to their credit the church is responding aggressively but not only is it too late, it is an impossible task.

you can only paint sh*t so many ways.

Qcmbr

Some more info. I'm itching to get the 2012 Uk charity report to see if it reveals the big loss of the year that I've seen. In the meantime:

http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/2011/05/the-church-is-losing-us-how-can-they-keep-us/

Glossary: RM (Returned missionary)

"... Other trends include:

(Most info taken from Ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.com and Cumorah.com ):
-The drop-out rate/retention rate among RMs is disturbingly high.
– This year, the church experienced it’s first Stake Shutdown, or First Stake Consolidation In Australia
-The number of actual convert baptisms has decreased almost steadily since the 80′s. This is based on the annual statistical report delivered in Gen. Conference.
-Most of the growth of “The Church” continues to be natural growth, through births rather than conversions. However, baptisms of children-of-record are declining too.
-Growth of Mormonism in the North America and Europe is virtually flat and is actually declining in some countries (prompting the shift from European missions to South American ones.)
- With the exception of new “minority” wards being created in some inner cities, Mormonism is dying off in urban centers, even in SLC.
- Most conversions to Mormonism are in the Third World, and the drop-out rate in those countries is very high. Surveys done in Mexico, Chile, and Brazil indicate that less than 20% of the “members” claimed by “The Church” self-identify as Mormons."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints_membership_history

427

If man evolved?

by tornapart in

i know anyone who believes in evolution is going to say that there is no 'if' about it.

however.... if man evolved over hundreds of thousands of years ago, why were there only about 200-300 million people alive 2,000 years ago?

surely there'd have been many billions by then?.

Qcmbr

I suspect James is trolling. He has made no attempt to engage in this conversation imo but seems to be having his own dialogue , with himself, and seems to have come to the conclusion ( without the ability to comprehend the facts required to make an opinion) that Hovind is correct. With the exception of once again giving us ( and I mean Cofty and Jgnat ) a good opportunity to show how useful science can be this thread is a three course troll feast.

427

If man evolved?

by tornapart in

i know anyone who believes in evolution is going to say that there is no 'if' about it.

however.... if man evolved over hundreds of thousands of years ago, why were there only about 200-300 million people alive 2,000 years ago?

surely there'd have been many billions by then?.

Qcmbr

Sorry....what?

427

If man evolved?

by tornapart in

i know anyone who believes in evolution is going to say that there is no 'if' about it.

however.... if man evolved over hundreds of thousands of years ago, why were there only about 200-300 million people alive 2,000 years ago?

surely there'd have been many billions by then?.

Qcmbr

If we had no religious texts (written by ancient civilisations who knew very little) we would never look at the evidence and suggest a young earth:

When was the last time we had a magnetic flip? The magnetic compass has been in use since about 200 B.C. Since then it's resolutely pointed North. When molten rock cools magnetite nodules record the magnetic orientation of the earth's field. The number of recorded flips measured by bands of alternating N/S magnetite alignment is in the hundreds. Had the earth's magnetic field flipped every decade or so this would fit the young earth model. We know that this isn't the case and the magnetic flips seems a very slow process. The evidence is simple, the earth is ancient.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/stripes.html

85

Mormons getting hollowed out: The tipping point has occurred.

by Qcmbr in

ever since mitt romney turned the spotlight on the lds church a growing tsunami of disaffection has been accelerated and brought to a head.. the lds core faithful members are leaving in increasing numbers such that growth has not simply stagnated in the west but it has actively reversed.

to their credit the church is responding aggressively but not only is it too late, it is an impossible task.

you can only paint sh*t so many ways.

Qcmbr

Sorry never a JW, always Mormon. My LDS life was amazingly good in most cases. It just wasn't authentic. I got tired of acting.

85

Mormons getting hollowed out: The tipping point has occurred.

by Qcmbr in

ever since mitt romney turned the spotlight on the lds church a growing tsunami of disaffection has been accelerated and brought to a head.. the lds core faithful members are leaving in increasing numbers such that growth has not simply stagnated in the west but it has actively reversed.

to their credit the church is responding aggressively but not only is it too late, it is an impossible task.

you can only paint sh*t so many ways.

Qcmbr

This is my attempt to extrapolate some useful figures. Hope it helps!

Dang - wrong scale on last graph. buggerbuggerbugger.

Also no exact idea why church baptism rate / growth is not clearly linked. Assume that baptism doesn't include baptising children of record (born ins) and so the actual baptismal rate / membership loss through death and resignation is masked. Shrugs.

85

Mormons getting hollowed out: The tipping point has occurred.

by Qcmbr in

ever since mitt romney turned the spotlight on the lds church a growing tsunami of disaffection has been accelerated and brought to a head.. the lds core faithful members are leaving in increasing numbers such that growth has not simply stagnated in the west but it has actively reversed.

to their credit the church is responding aggressively but not only is it too late, it is an impossible task.

you can only paint sh*t so many ways.

Qcmbr

Yadda , I've put out some feelers to see if any of the other ex-mo people in the fb group have access to something concrete but so far nothing. It's very difficult to come up with concrete stats from the outside and also at the church level you only have local figures and you need to be a stake clerk to know the next level up and so on so fewer and fewer people have the real picture. What I will do is get a picture of the stage one chapel that was destined to be a stake centre (stage three expanded building) and show the sold land. I also had a look to see if I could point out the drop in UK tithing according to the charitable donations reports but something very screwy is going on there as 2011 shows an unusual leap in donations which I'll see if I can find an explanation for ( hint it isn't the members paying more in the middle of a recession .)

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/FinancialHistory.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=242451&SubsidiaryNumber=0

Ok wasn't too hard, increased donations from parent company(Utah) , lumping in missionary donations and support costs ( missionaries get donations from home churches), whopping land donation (read moving internal assets around possibly for tax purposes). I'll do a better analysis of actual member contributions and graph it.

85

Mormons getting hollowed out: The tipping point has occurred.

by Qcmbr in

ever since mitt romney turned the spotlight on the lds church a growing tsunami of disaffection has been accelerated and brought to a head.. the lds core faithful members are leaving in increasing numbers such that growth has not simply stagnated in the west but it has actively reversed.

to their credit the church is responding aggressively but not only is it too late, it is an impossible task.

you can only paint sh*t so many ways.

Qcmbr

When I was active the definition was attending once a quarter - so 4 visits a year though active members will tend to go every week. Our church (ward) had over 300 members on the list at one stage ( I was the clerk )and ,at it's peak,50% were active. With a handful of exceptions everyone baptised while I was active left pretty quickly and became 'less active'. I handed my resignation notice in two weeks ago (my friend was released as Bishop and I didn't want him to have to process it) but I found some interesting hearsay that says my name will still be counted in official figures , I of course have no way of checking but it would help explain continued reported growth figures when the evidence on the ground is plain to see. Also I read that no Stakes ( groups of churches in a local area ) have been created due to expansion since 1996 in the uk, take that with a pinch of salt for now though I haven't verified it.

77

What does your screen name/avatar mean and what does it stand for

by BU2B in

jw
friends

and why did you choose it?

if you have a avatar, what is it and why did you pick it?.

ok ill start.

Qcmbr

The cucumber (Cucumis sativus) is a widely cultivated plant in the gourd family Cucurbitaceae. It is a creeping vine which bears cylindrical edible fruit when ripe. There are three main varieties of cucumber: "slicing", "pickling", and "burpless". Within these varieties, several different cultivars have emerged. The cucumber is originally from Indian subcontinent but is now grown on most continents.

Who knew?!

85

Mormons getting hollowed out: The tipping point has occurred.

by Qcmbr in

ever since mitt romney turned the spotlight on the lds church a growing tsunami of disaffection has been accelerated and brought to a head.. the lds core faithful members are leaving in increasing numbers such that growth has not simply stagnated in the west but it has actively reversed.

to their credit the church is responding aggressively but not only is it too late, it is an impossible task.

you can only paint sh*t so many ways.

Qcmbr

The LDS challenge is that they have pushed the mantra of embracing all truth so much that they can't continually ignore the skeletons in their own closet. There have been a wave of resignations in the last two years that have rocked the leadership and forced them to act. There is even some talk of private meetings between some high level leaders and the some vocal dissidents. It's very interesting to watch and has the feel of a building that's had it's foundations hacked away that will fall in a big heap, a delicious but scary anticipation. Just this weekend we had a lovely evening with friends who casually dropped into the conversation that neither of them had been to church for 7 months. These people who are leaving are the core members, the second and third generation families who just a few years ago had been solid members. Of course it's all because I left hehe. Seriously though this is something amazing and many members are buzzing with talk about what's happening.

If I hear of anything else I'll let you know. The initial reports back from the firesides has been that they aren't enough to tempt waverers back, some faithful members are glad that issues are being confronted and a good wedge of the congregation are hearing things they never knew.