Posts by Qcmbr

169

Challenge to Athiests - is Religion a Pox on Mankind?

by jgnat in

i've spent the last few years examining my core beliefs to test what still stands.

i've let go of an inviolate bible, demoted jesus to a failed prophet, and god as unable to act against injustice.

our universe made itself.

Qcmbr

Actually religion is one of many reality distorting memes. Religion, unchallenged becomes a monster (my personal interest is in the awfulness that Utah became when it was ruled by one of our currently more benign religions, mormons but you can substitute in medieval Catholicism, Taliban Aghanistan or any other times when religion takes over government.) Religion becomes its less scary cousin when it is tempered by secularism and law. When we are unable to challenge an idea we risk totalitarianism and that is what religion has historically become as soon as it was adopted as a ruling power.

Even those churches FORCED to accept evolution by the facts still teach incorrect concepts based upon a version of the emperor's new clothing story. The moment you take a child and teach them that there are invisible people called angels and demons you are guilty of distorting reality. Snakes don't talk, horses don't fly and your lifestyle choices do not send you to hell.

243

Giant thread of convince-me-not-to-be-a-theist

by DS211 in

jw
friends

if you could teach me one thing to convince me not to believe what would it be?

for instance what has the wt taught about evolution/science or mans existence that is wrong and could possibly change skmeones mind?

and the more important question, why is it a creator couldnt allow for species to evolve?

Qcmbr

Your dismissal of me is fine - a little silly but fine however, Tec is not giving wavering JWs a good overview of the options since she argues exclusively for her personal brand of woo. She has a long history here and yet her posts rarely engage the question but revolve around a simplistic idea (listen to her version of christ). One common worry here was that for a time there was a very strong presence on these boards of the aforementioned preacher and between her and Tec they gathered a few ex-JWs into a new faith built loosley on christianity but with a strong anti-religion undertone. That caused a lot of issues and was, imo, a real problem since so many vulnerable people , desperate to find a port in an emotional storm, can fall for a kind voice and a promise of divine communication and many seemed to. Tec now stands alone here promoting this very exclusive brand of faith. Most believers on this board are very different in their approach and can hold a good conversation without constant recourse to a celestial trump card (god just told me.)

243

Giant thread of convince-me-not-to-be-a-theist

by DS211 in

jw
friends

if you could teach me one thing to convince me not to believe what would it be?

for instance what has the wt taught about evolution/science or mans existence that is wrong and could possibly change skmeones mind?

and the more important question, why is it a creator couldnt allow for species to evolve?

Qcmbr

Kate - Tec actually says nothing substantial beyond (rearrange at your leisure) - 'Christ', 'Light', 'Hear', 'Follow','That doesn't apply to me'. Cofty has provided facts, information, reasoned thought and evidence. Why on earth would you equate both? One is driven by the super ego (I'm special listen to me) and the other from the realm of empirical knowledge. Please choose your influences carefully. Whether Tec admits it or not she is fishing for converts to a mystic form of christianity which involves strange revelations on obscure scripture started a few years ago by a charismatic preacher whom she follows. Buyer beware.

169

Challenge to Athiests - is Religion a Pox on Mankind?

by jgnat in

i've spent the last few years examining my core beliefs to test what still stands.

i've let go of an inviolate bible, demoted jesus to a failed prophet, and god as unable to act against injustice.

our universe made itself.

Qcmbr

Knowledge is useful and can be made to benefit mankind. Incorrect knowledge is a detriment to the collective good. Religion is an idea about a false concept of reality that leads to many wasted lives. To make decisions it is arguable that we must have emotions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotions_in_decision-making) and rational thought alone is not enough to impel us to choose. Religion, alongside other disagreaable memes, ride upon emotion and hijack the decision making process.

Religion distorts reality so that rational thinking is impaired and the net result is immorality and mis-aligned evaluations of worth or 'rightness'. Religion takes an idea (for example procreation) and turns it into an unnatural formula (only x or y constitutes acceptable procreation , only p or q relationships are allowed etc.) which is socially sub optimal and can only be maintained via immoral behaviour (reject r and z style relationships via social stigma or physical force.)

Without religion we would have fewer pyramids (and the misery they took to build) and more moon bases. Without religion we would have conquered almost all illnesses. Without religion we could tell our children the truth.

243

Giant thread of convince-me-not-to-be-a-theist

by DS211 in

jw
friends

if you could teach me one thing to convince me not to believe what would it be?

for instance what has the wt taught about evolution/science or mans existence that is wrong and could possibly change skmeones mind?

and the more important question, why is it a creator couldnt allow for species to evolve?

Qcmbr

TL:DR zinger - no god manages to transcend its culture. It is therefore true to say that no being worthy of the title of god has yet been discovered.

The concept of beings greater than ourselves and able to do things we cannot is a fundamental aspect of our psyche ( possibly due to having evolved from animals with alpha male organisation - everyone else is subordinate.) We use that idea throughout our literature from Harry Potter throught to Allah. For an idea to survive it must be transferred to the children. Supernatural tales that are written down survive the passage of time best.

Our supermen ( and most supernatural, super human imagined creatures are men and where the few women are elevated it normally revolves around their ability to create things) explain our culture and use elements of our world ( kids from an Amazonian jungle tribe would never conceive of Harry Potter.) No imagined being transcends or rejects the culture they were created in ( so hebrew god Yahweh is cool with animal sacrifice, genocide and slavery.)

Each culture finds it easy to dismiss another cultures' supermen (JWs being 'Christian' and this site being in English gives us a westernised slice of the Christian worldview hence the gods we discuss here are Jehovah / Christ based. Even our forum believers would agree that Brahma is not real. Western civilisation and its embrace of science , rationality and logic has shattered the original hebrew god so thoroughly that it has had to reimagine it's gods ( hence we now discuss deistic gods within the same umbrella as the literal bible god.)

When we discuss evidence for and against the god we are actually discussing evidence for and against the culture of that god. Thus it is almost impossible to not be rude ( a god wouldn't be fussed about underlings but a believer will quite rightly get offended when their imagination / culture is getting strongly critiqued) and to reach a satisfactory agreement. Once a believer becomes a preacher the emotional and social cost of failure become very, very high hence the number of people adamantly proclaiming that the emperor is clothed.

11

We Played Along With Our Own Oppression

by cofty in

in communist east germany (gdr) writers were provided with a 'helper' - often a stasi agent - who would 'assist' the work through to publication.. poet and novelist gunter kunert described how this led to a sort of self-censorship.

it reminded me very much of the way jws can be trained to accept outrageous restrictions while imagining they are making free choices.. -----------------------------------------------------------------.

"as authors we were always trying to be ahead of the censor, to second-guess his instinct as to what was 'in' and what was 'off'.

Qcmbr

Stealing as my fb status.

64

Look, Up in the Air...It's a Bird, it's a Plane...No, It's a JW!!

by Cold Steel in

for you ex-jehovahs witnesses...and even you current ones...have you ever contemplated your future existence in paradise earth, should you be fortunate enough to end up there?

during those raucous, fun moments at the kingdom hall when you were contemplating eternity and having the times of your lives...did you ever speculate about what life would be like?

for example, would you have to walk everywhere or would you be able to fly around like superman?

Qcmbr

JW end times always struck me as nasty and triumphalistic, detailed pictures of horrible things happening to non-jws and then post apocalypse where the sun always shines andpeople grin like they are mainlining heroin. Mormonism is no less caught up in doomsday speculation but seems to care more for those who suffer and die (their judgment plan giveseveryone resurrection and a variety of grades in lifes test plus few mormons think they get much personal protection from end scenarios so its not an eagerly anticipated event).

Mormonism does not survive its encounter with facts. When Joseph fabricated a book to make some money ( he tried to sell the copyright ) he had no idea it would spawn a religion and as all great conmen he adapted as he went on, he was caught out several times but such is the perversity and blindness of faith many of his followers gave him a pass. He was undoubtably a mendacious genius who wove mormonism from the surrounding culture. If anyone is interested in what two books ( other than the King James bible ) were used as the basis for style and content let me know and I'll post links to them - note you will need to have read the book of mormon to see the links.

Cold - think about your line in the sand.Where does your belief ask too much? What could be said in church that would be too unbelievable?What evidence would disprove your beliefs?

73

Maintaining Faith In God As An Ex-JW

by pronomono in

as i fade further from the jws, i'm finding it increasingly hard to maintain faith in god.

i've been exploring many alternatives from atheism, agnostic, apathetic, pagan, and satanism (not devil worship, but the promotion of self-indulgence) to name a few.

i'm thoroughly intrigued to learn how those of you who remained christian managed to maintain your faith in god and christ, especially after enduring all the lies that we've been told about them.

Qcmbr

If a god exists who cares about you trust that that being will give you the faith you need. As a non god you arent expected to spontaneously generate faith . Get on with living and if a caring god takes an interest in you then your question will be answered. Dont sweat faith.

85

Atheists, what is the best argument FOR God?

by bohm in

there are no convincing arguments for god, but some are worse than others.

i thought it would be interesting to see what people consider the best (of the bad) arguments for god?.

in my oppinion it is the fine-tuning argument from cosmology.

Qcmbr

Given sufficient computing power we should be able to create a simulation with autonomous ai actors that perceive it as real. If one simulation can be created then many will. The number of simulations will exceed the original meaning it is probale that we are a simulation...

85

Dawkins Chapter 2 - Dogs, Cows and Cabbages

by KateWild in

i have to say, i am afraid i found this chapter labourious to read in most places.

imo i felt he just wasn't getting to the point.

i don't get why dawkins felt the need to teach me all about platoism, essentialism and rabbits.

Qcmbr

No magic being is everywhere and has all power but is invisible and talks telepathically to people. The evidence for this is the conflicting messages they receive, the lack of useful novel information they present , the lack of congruence with reality and the study of the human brain showing how it can present a convincing perceptual reality at odds with the objective reality using purely chemical and electrical stimuli. Santa (the Coca Cola product ) is based upon a potentially real historical person which makes him more likely than any religious god conceived thousands of years ago by primitive cultures.