Posts by Qcmbr

340

Fallacies about Faith

by tec in

jw
friends

peace to you!.

this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.

this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.

Well I'm confused. Is this a thread about what atheists think about theists or is it a thread about what atheists say about theists or is it a thread about what atheists should think about theists or is it a thread about what Tec thinks atheists think about theists ?

Tec - since you aren't an atheist and apparently were born a fully fledged gnostic Christian how on earth do you have a clue about what atheists think about theists? Have you still not moved on in your understanding that atheism isn't a unified group with some dogma. You'd have more ground for assertions if you chose an actual philosophy ( rationalism? Humanism? Skepticism?) rather than a word describing a state. Really suggests you don't actually read to understand the real positions of those who claim atheism and labour to explain.

I do think you have an important voice here but it would be great if you one day thought about how absurd it is for a stonewalling believer ( you for example) to claim greater insights than those who have been on both sides of the fence.We who have been believers understand your worldview, really, we do.

288

Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i enjoy the odd thread about evoloution vs creation, etc but lately it seems that a large percentage of threads here devolve into fighting between atheists and theists and distract from what most of us here see eye to eye on, the wt and related things.

i wish things could be more civil here and fr people to realize that people will never see eye to eye on the topic.

it gets so tiring to see the contstant bickring and fighting on those threads.. they seem to go on page after page but very little of substance is discussed seeing as the existence or non existence of a god can be proven by anyone.

Qcmbr

I have a good friend and work colleague who is a staunch believer and I twigged the other day about what makes his religious pronouncements so obnoxious despite him otherwise being a respected team member. It's simply that when we enter a communication part of that engagement is allowing room to disagree and when he talks about his faith he makes the only option direct contradiction. The statement 'I believe in Slenderman' is socially more graceful than 'Slenderman visits us all at night.'

288

Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i enjoy the odd thread about evoloution vs creation, etc but lately it seems that a large percentage of threads here devolve into fighting between atheists and theists and distract from what most of us here see eye to eye on, the wt and related things.

i wish things could be more civil here and fr people to realize that people will never see eye to eye on the topic.

it gets so tiring to see the contstant bickring and fighting on those threads.. they seem to go on page after page but very little of substance is discussed seeing as the existence or non existence of a god can be proven by anyone.

Qcmbr

Awesome Tec . Respond to a quote mine with another quote mine. Stunning.

If you find people constantly misunderstand you (how many times do you point this out!) then don't keep blaming them but wonder whether your message is obfuscated. Discussing something you've preached on here (my lord just told me x) is an exercise in herding cats since you never pin yourself down to anything but the widest latitude answers.

288

Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i enjoy the odd thread about evoloution vs creation, etc but lately it seems that a large percentage of threads here devolve into fighting between atheists and theists and distract from what most of us here see eye to eye on, the wt and related things.

i wish things could be more civil here and fr people to realize that people will never see eye to eye on the topic.

it gets so tiring to see the contstant bickring and fighting on those threads.. they seem to go on page after page but very little of substance is discussed seeing as the existence or non existence of a god can be proven by anyone.

Qcmbr

It can be but it can also be very loving. That is the beauty and the danger of sharing ideas without a script. As our relative viewpoints change we realise that what was once received as harsh was actually kindness and that which was once seen as concerned friendship was actually empty kinship. Sometimes the free, beautifully illustrated magazine promising love and beach balls is poison.

288

Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i enjoy the odd thread about evoloution vs creation, etc but lately it seems that a large percentage of threads here devolve into fighting between atheists and theists and distract from what most of us here see eye to eye on, the wt and related things.

i wish things could be more civil here and fr people to realize that people will never see eye to eye on the topic.

it gets so tiring to see the contstant bickring and fighting on those threads.. they seem to go on page after page but very little of substance is discussed seeing as the existence or non existence of a god can be proven by anyone.

Qcmbr

Personal belief, when kept personal offends no one and invites no public ridicule. Personal belief worn like a fancy hat is a public message and will be responded to.

288

Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

i enjoy the odd thread about evoloution vs creation, etc but lately it seems that a large percentage of threads here devolve into fighting between atheists and theists and distract from what most of us here see eye to eye on, the wt and related things.

i wish things could be more civil here and fr people to realize that people will never see eye to eye on the topic.

it gets so tiring to see the contstant bickring and fighting on those threads.. they seem to go on page after page but very little of substance is discussed seeing as the existence or non existence of a god can be proven by anyone.

Qcmbr

Brilliant Tec - you start a thread describing what atheists say about theists but only actually make it about you. Genius.

79

The life differences between a good christian and good athiest

by EndofMysteries in

let's compare a christian who goes to a non judgemental / non guilt trip church which focuses really on the gospels, jesus teachings on being non judgemental, anything out of love there is no law against, and they contribute to society.

then an athiest who if you put side by side w/ the above christian, you would not know any difference unless you asked their beliefs.

both are good people, who are able to lead lives doing what they want, enjoying their life, and trying to help their neighbors too.

Qcmbr

Honestly - death scared the sh&t out of me as a believer , I used to wake up at night in a cold sweat suffering panic attacks. For whatever reason ( I suspect not talking about death and judgement on a weekly basis has something to do with it) I hardly ever think about death any more. Either way I will go through perfectly normal fear as my end approaches. I do miss the companionship and friendship my church gave me though.

169

Challenge to Athiests - is Religion a Pox on Mankind?

by jgnat in

i've spent the last few years examining my core beliefs to test what still stands.

i've let go of an inviolate bible, demoted jesus to a failed prophet, and god as unable to act against injustice.

our universe made itself.

Qcmbr

If we see good in a utilitarian way we could argue that filtering good through an organisation such as a religion reduces the overall utility which must be balanced against the question of whether the good would occur without the organisation (for example giving $10 to a charity that only uses $5 on the actual needy - loss of utility - but has made a connection to help those needy that may not have occurred otherwise.)

If we seek to separate the act from the institution have we not then agreed that the institution is unecessary and therefore a parasitical form?If however, we argue that the organisation is necessary for the act then we cannot identify a good act without invoking the cause. Under one definition death camp hypothermia experiment data is good and we can ignory the bad way it was gathered , on the other we are forced to confront the idea that the good is poisoned by the cause. I would argue that the cause , religion in this thread , no matter whether its local result is beneficial to some, is a negative drag on mankind overall. To argue otherwise is, to me, to always push the fat man in front of the train to stop it so saving the workers further down the line.

169

Challenge to Athiests - is Religion a Pox on Mankind?

by jgnat in

i've spent the last few years examining my core beliefs to test what still stands.

i've let go of an inviolate bible, demoted jesus to a failed prophet, and god as unable to act against injustice.

our universe made itself.

Qcmbr

The flaw I find in your arguments jgnat is the isolation of acts and their evaluation alone as good or bad. Using this process we can describe Nazism as having many good features. Poison , as I understand it, isn't simply about ruining one act , it is ruining the totality, the whole thing. Many aspects of the JWs clearly appeal to people but their overall impact is detrimental and sub optimal (had all that effort been directed at more authentic activities more would be achieved .) It is not simply enough to do a good act if the overall cost of that good act is negative.

169

Challenge to Athiests - is Religion a Pox on Mankind?

by jgnat in

i've spent the last few years examining my core beliefs to test what still stands.

i've let go of an inviolate bible, demoted jesus to a failed prophet, and god as unable to act against injustice.

our universe made itself.

Qcmbr

Sorry jgnat - I breeze past a lot - time is short :( I actually haven't firmly defined a sensible definition of what 'good' is, having read Sam Harris' Moral Landscape I was introduced to the novel idea that we may be able to scientifically ascertain the value of each situation. The current debate has a long way to run before our great thinkers have bottomed out at least this approach to defining good. As such it isn't (in my mind) the act of giving the water itself that would be poisoned but the reality of why that exchange took place. If the giving of water is motivated by fear of hell surely that poisons the intention rather than if it was motivated soley by a natural impulse to share and aid. Religion poisons (in my mind) not simply by what it does but by why it does it.

When a religion gives with one hand it expects to receive with the other (have a bible study for free - come join our organisation , body, mind and purse forever). Returning to Mother Theresa as a really good example - a good behaviour (care for needy) was poisoned by a religious devotion to anti-social policies (she was anti contraception, anti modern medicine, alledgedly used less than 10% of donations on charity work etc.) and arguably she perpetuated poverty rather than alleviated it because her attitude was poisoned by her faith.

"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people."