Yes, people who have moved from atheism to belief also have great insight in this sort of discussion. There are very valid arguments to be made that a life lived too cynically is devoid of potential richness that religion and faith often offers.
Posts by Qcmbr
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340Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
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340
Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
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Qcmbr
So far I still think despite what she says Tec is just pretending to want some form of bridge in understanding since she refuses to acknowledge that the bridge in knowledge already exists ( many former believers become non believers and therefore know not only what some believers think about atheism but also what happens on the other side , what caused them to loose belief and therefore what they think about believers - critically what they think about their former self.) Tec is not qualified to make these supposed fallacies. It's as presumptuous as me , a former Mormon , making a thread about what JWs think about Mormons and then trying to lead that discussion as though I knew more than you.
Lisa , you talked about red flags, things that prompt strong responses and I think these are more telling about the relationships here.
- By all means put forward opinions but be prepared to back them up with more than just your imagination if you want your point to be discussed.
- If you have little more than faith to go on for a post then stating that at the same time goes a long way to defusing a tense situation.Hearing voices in your head is a variation on faith not rock solid evidence ( unless the voice gives us something novel and useful such as an instant cure for headaches!)
- When someone disagrees with a cherished belief it may feel like they are negating you, they aren't , separating self from belief allows a more dispassionate discussion . Some believers make the comment more about themselves than about the idea and the offences follow naturally.
- Recognise that as a believer the threads about belief are yours to derail or maintain. Normally , where a sincere question is asked, many people will go to great lengths to explain a fallacy, give a source of scholarly information , give a well thought out response etc. the flames occur when , despite answers a stonewall or whinge occurs. There is good grace in admitting new information has been presented and withdrawing to consider.
- Remember former believers understand those feelings of emotion, the thrill of faith, the allure of a loving community of like minded thinkers, some even know what it's like to hear voices, have thoughts that feel otherworldy and mystical and so on. Most non believers aren't there for casual, knee jerk reasons but have trodden further down a hard and painful path of confronting their perceptions with logic, evidence and intense introspection. Many of us are gutted by the lies and feel zealous about exposing them.
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340
Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
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Qcmbr
Well I'm confused. Is this a thread about what atheists think about theists or is it a thread about what atheists say about theists or is it a thread about what atheists should think about theists or is it a thread about what Tec thinks atheists think about theists ?
Tec - since you aren't an atheist and apparently were born a fully fledged gnostic Christian how on earth do you have a clue about what atheists think about theists? Have you still not moved on in your understanding that atheism isn't a unified group with some dogma. You'd have more ground for assertions if you chose an actual philosophy ( rationalism? Humanism? Skepticism?) rather than a word describing a state. Really suggests you don't actually read to understand the real positions of those who claim atheism and labour to explain.
I do think you have an important voice here but it would be great if you one day thought about how absurd it is for a stonewalling believer ( you for example) to claim greater insights than those who have been on both sides of the fence.We who have been believers understand your worldview, really, we do.
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288
Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?
by BU2B ini enjoy the odd thread about evoloution vs creation, etc but lately it seems that a large percentage of threads here devolve into fighting between atheists and theists and distract from what most of us here see eye to eye on, the wt and related things.
i wish things could be more civil here and fr people to realize that people will never see eye to eye on the topic.
it gets so tiring to see the contstant bickring and fighting on those threads.. they seem to go on page after page but very little of substance is discussed seeing as the existence or non existence of a god can be proven by anyone.
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Qcmbr
I have a good friend and work colleague who is a staunch believer and I twigged the other day about what makes his religious pronouncements so obnoxious despite him otherwise being a respected team member. It's simply that when we enter a communication part of that engagement is allowing room to disagree and when he talks about his faith he makes the only option direct contradiction. The statement 'I believe in Slenderman' is socially more graceful than 'Slenderman visits us all at night.'
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288
Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?
by BU2B ini enjoy the odd thread about evoloution vs creation, etc but lately it seems that a large percentage of threads here devolve into fighting between atheists and theists and distract from what most of us here see eye to eye on, the wt and related things.
i wish things could be more civil here and fr people to realize that people will never see eye to eye on the topic.
it gets so tiring to see the contstant bickring and fighting on those threads.. they seem to go on page after page but very little of substance is discussed seeing as the existence or non existence of a god can be proven by anyone.
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Qcmbr
Awesome Tec . Respond to a quote mine with another quote mine. Stunning.
If you find people constantly misunderstand you (how many times do you point this out!) then don't keep blaming them but wonder whether your message is obfuscated. Discussing something you've preached on here (my lord just told me x) is an exercise in herding cats since you never pin yourself down to anything but the widest latitude answers.
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288
Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?
by BU2B ini enjoy the odd thread about evoloution vs creation, etc but lately it seems that a large percentage of threads here devolve into fighting between atheists and theists and distract from what most of us here see eye to eye on, the wt and related things.
i wish things could be more civil here and fr people to realize that people will never see eye to eye on the topic.
it gets so tiring to see the contstant bickring and fighting on those threads.. they seem to go on page after page but very little of substance is discussed seeing as the existence or non existence of a god can be proven by anyone.
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Qcmbr
It can be but it can also be very loving. That is the beauty and the danger of sharing ideas without a script. As our relative viewpoints change we realise that what was once received as harsh was actually kindness and that which was once seen as concerned friendship was actually empty kinship. Sometimes the free, beautifully illustrated magazine promising love and beach balls is poison.
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288
Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?
by BU2B ini enjoy the odd thread about evoloution vs creation, etc but lately it seems that a large percentage of threads here devolve into fighting between atheists and theists and distract from what most of us here see eye to eye on, the wt and related things.
i wish things could be more civil here and fr people to realize that people will never see eye to eye on the topic.
it gets so tiring to see the contstant bickring and fighting on those threads.. they seem to go on page after page but very little of substance is discussed seeing as the existence or non existence of a god can be proven by anyone.
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Qcmbr
Personal belief, when kept personal offends no one and invites no public ridicule. Personal belief worn like a fancy hat is a public message and will be responded to.
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288
Is it just me or has this site become a Believer/Atheist warzone?
by BU2B ini enjoy the odd thread about evoloution vs creation, etc but lately it seems that a large percentage of threads here devolve into fighting between atheists and theists and distract from what most of us here see eye to eye on, the wt and related things.
i wish things could be more civil here and fr people to realize that people will never see eye to eye on the topic.
it gets so tiring to see the contstant bickring and fighting on those threads.. they seem to go on page after page but very little of substance is discussed seeing as the existence or non existence of a god can be proven by anyone.
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Qcmbr
Brilliant Tec - you start a thread describing what atheists say about theists but only actually make it about you. Genius.
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79
The life differences between a good christian and good athiest
by EndofMysteries inlet's compare a christian who goes to a non judgemental / non guilt trip church which focuses really on the gospels, jesus teachings on being non judgemental, anything out of love there is no law against, and they contribute to society.
then an athiest who if you put side by side w/ the above christian, you would not know any difference unless you asked their beliefs.
both are good people, who are able to lead lives doing what they want, enjoying their life, and trying to help their neighbors too.
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Qcmbr
Honestly - death scared the sh&t out of me as a believer , I used to wake up at night in a cold sweat suffering panic attacks. For whatever reason ( I suspect not talking about death and judgement on a weekly basis has something to do with it) I hardly ever think about death any more. Either way I will go through perfectly normal fear as my end approaches. I do miss the companionship and friendship my church gave me though.
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169
Challenge to Athiests - is Religion a Pox on Mankind?
by jgnat ini've spent the last few years examining my core beliefs to test what still stands.
i've let go of an inviolate bible, demoted jesus to a failed prophet, and god as unable to act against injustice.
our universe made itself.
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Qcmbr
If we see good in a utilitarian way we could argue that filtering good through an organisation such as a religion reduces the overall utility which must be balanced against the question of whether the good would occur without the organisation (for example giving $10 to a charity that only uses $5 on the actual needy - loss of utility - but has made a connection to help those needy that may not have occurred otherwise.)
If we seek to separate the act from the institution have we not then agreed that the institution is unecessary and therefore a parasitical form?If however, we argue that the organisation is necessary for the act then we cannot identify a good act without invoking the cause. Under one definition death camp hypothermia experiment data is good and we can ignory the bad way it was gathered , on the other we are forced to confront the idea that the good is poisoned by the cause. I would argue that the cause , religion in this thread , no matter whether its local result is beneficial to some, is a negative drag on mankind overall. To argue otherwise is, to me, to always push the fat man in front of the train to stop it so saving the workers further down the line.