Qcmbr

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Posts by Qcmbr

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  699

  A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?

  by palmtree67 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ricky gervais tweeted this 11/14/12 and i totally agree with it:.

  "there are good atheists and bad atheists.

  there are good believers and bad believers.. no god has ever changed that.".

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  Qcmbr

  AG - I've heard you out by reading extensively on your own forum. Its not all that much to be honest - you say the same stuff as here and my reading skills are fine. You aren't special. You aren't a new unanswerable force. Your a bunch of devout individuals having a bit of shared bliss and all power to you. Its been done for thousands of years and it will be done in the future. You're a Joseph Smith, a Bhudda, a Thiota , the local street preacher , a Paul etc. I understand that its painful to be contradicted and to be told you could be causing harm. I see the pain in the LDS missionaries eyes as I disabuse them of false ideas and premises and point out the cost of being wrong in wasted hope, faith and behavioural changes.

  Anyhow - night all:)
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  452

  Faith... and Trust: The Same Things?

  by AGuest in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.

  in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).

  that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.

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  Qcmbr

  tec - I own every word I say, every mistake , every thought and every bit of scrummy awesomness. AG and you don't. You both play a dual role, speaking sometimes authentically sometimes by proxy. AG has posted many times about having a message for an elect group, a special chosen set of people and uses this forum as a free advertising booth for it. I suspect you'd be a bit pee'd if someone decided to use the local park where you walk your dog for a recruitment rally for <select some group> working purely on the assumption that they could use the shared space for their political gain and you should just suck it up and respect it.
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  699

  A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?

  by palmtree67 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ricky gervais tweeted this 11/14/12 and i totally agree with it:.

  "there are good atheists and bad atheists.

  there are good believers and bad believers.. no god has ever changed that.".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Qcmbr

  The point tec is that you have formed an emotional bond with someone such that you now accept them as a conduit for supernatural messages. That's what religion is.
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  61

  C...

  by AGuest in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  peace to you (forgive me if that offends/insults, but i felt wrong not offering it in opening this new thread).

  to continue where we left off on the "truce" thread:.

  there is no such thing as relative truth - it is not open to subjective feelings.

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  Qcmbr

  If Dawkins ever claimed his knowledge was whispered to him by the supernatural I'd kick him into touch in a moment. Until that time I find his explanations of why , how, where and when based upon objective facts, devoid of religious faith, amenable to correction, open about missing information and above all - useful in my life in a way that leprous JHat and his revelations regarding bones just isn't. Dawkins knowledge is rooted in information used by medical practitioners, food scientists, blood donors and biologists who between them have saved billions of lives. Dragons just aren't quite on the same scale for me and that about sums up all faith based religion to me. Pretty inadequate. Stories about magical transfusions of blood just isn't worth a jot - knowing why certain blood types can't mix and why blood works the way it does - that's awesome.
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  452

  Faith... and Trust: The Same Things?

  by AGuest in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.

  in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).

  that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.

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  Qcmbr

  You see them as your supporters no?
• 
  699

  A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?

  by palmtree67 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ricky gervais tweeted this 11/14/12 and i totally agree with it:.

  "there are good atheists and bad atheists.

  there are good believers and bad believers.. no god has ever changed that.".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Qcmbr

  What on earth was that AG?
• 
  699

  A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?

  by palmtree67 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ricky gervais tweeted this 11/14/12 and i totally agree with it:.

  "there are good atheists and bad atheists.

  there are good believers and bad believers.. no god has ever changed that.".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Qcmbr

  Char - this was my absolute fav:

  I think you've misunderstood what I "clarified."

  I don't think that there is as much of the ridicule or bullying or is as intense as some make out. Yes there have been some pretty nasty ones where it just turned into handbags at dawn but the real issue is still the ideas.

  As an atheist I could constantly whine about believers mocking my lack of belief, belittling my experiences, downgrading my every word because it doesn't come with a divine seal of approval like theirs does. I could be bitter about being told I'm not chosen , I'm spiritually disabled (hard of hearing and seeing) or constantly being invalidated as not of the House of JarHat MyHairShirtsOnFire or some such religious order. I could but I don't . The vast majority of the time I , and others, go straight to the logical conclusion of a statement and ask a searching question (e.g. if prayers are answered why aren't everyone's) and we wait for an answer. Sometimes answers have got some merit (they attempt to answer the question rather than restate the belief in another way) but very rarely do searching theological questions arrive at any meat beyond - some stonewall about it being a personal revelation so get over it. The inevitable questions follow regarding what is the point, is there any evidence beyond some supernatural experience (that is almost always explainable by simple biology , psychology and neurology) and a refutation.

  This is a standard, open discourse ways of approaching truth. There has to be more than a simple testimony for an idea to have wider application and weight amongst accepted society. That which many seem to describe as bullying is either strident questioning or rejection of an unsupported idea. When it gets personal it's normally in response to something personal stated by the argument proposer (why are atheists angry/ you need to understand/ your exprience isn't as valid as mine etc.) The less belief someone has the more they have to own their words and the less they have to rely on devices such as - 'I'm sharing what <divine proxy> wants me to tell you.'

  Don't mistake lack of reverence for your idols as a personal attack. Until you make it so.
• 
  699

  A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?

  by palmtree67 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ricky gervais tweeted this 11/14/12 and i totally agree with it:.

  "there are good atheists and bad atheists.

  there are good believers and bad believers.. no god has ever changed that.".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Qcmbr

  AG - I've told you this before - quote marks are normally used to either reverse meaning or quote. When you say "peace" - since you aren't quoting - you are saying the opposite. Its beautifully ironic.

  Tin hat on for the huge riposte.
• 
  699

  A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?

  by palmtree67 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ricky gervais tweeted this 11/14/12 and i totally agree with it:.

  "there are good atheists and bad atheists.

  there are good believers and bad believers.. no god has ever changed that.".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Qcmbr

  Shrugs - sometimes there are no arguments that can be made with someone who has come to the table with only non-negotiable terms. Still the board had simmered down a fair bit so at least its a bit bubblier, it seems to thrive on the odd bushfire.
• 
  699

  A truce between Atheists and Non-Atheists?

  by palmtree67 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ricky gervais tweeted this 11/14/12 and i totally agree with it:.

  "there are good atheists and bad atheists.

  there are good believers and bad believers.. no god has ever changed that.".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Qcmbr

  AGuest - do you ever tire of dredging every possible itty bit of twist on everything? If you so wish to extract a single idea from a very simple concept (and yes the 'Marketplace of ideas' is it in a nutshell - well spotted) and bugger with it seventy times seven such that by the time you've finished you've spun a whole fairytale about how measuring must be done with YOUR spiritual guide then I can't stop you but just have to sit there and accept that you don't want to converse , you want to perform. For all your words and all your rhetoric - you can't see past yourself sometimes.

  The metaphor was not about how we measure, nor who our peers are or should be , or any such other tortured subtlety; it was simply about the ability to disassociate oneself from your ideas idea such that you can reject it when the time comes. Too many people sink themselves into an idea and won't let go and get passionate over bad ideas. Ideas that have integrity will rise to the top if allowed to be discussed and critiqued. Ideas that need the cover and protection of respect, reverance and mystery are somewhat intellectually weaker in my experience.

  You also forget AG that I and most posters here used spiritual 'measuring sticks' for most of our lives. Always try and keep in mind there are few atheists/non-believers/doubters here who have always been such. The invitation is to benefit from our experiments with both sides - you might enjoy being an atheist :)