Posts by Qcmbr

56

A Mormon becomes a JW in the Feb 2013 Watchtower...

by cedars in

glancing through the feb 2013 "public" watchtower edition, an interesting article appears on page 8.. here is the pdf download link.... http://www.jw.org/download/?fileformat=pdf&issue=20130201&output=html&pub=wp&langwritten=e&option=trgchlzrqvnyvrxf&txtcmslang=e.

it's interesting how, in the story, the young man's jw aunt and uncle switch him from mormonism to the jw faith using third-party material (the nov 8, 1995 awake!

article), and he ends up becoming a jw after confirming on the official mormon website that the claims in the awake!

Qcmbr

I haven't seen the film you mention so I cant comment on that. I have known several members in good standing who were homosexual and who held church callings and attended the temple. Mormons, in the UK, approach things in a don't ask manner however, since all members are under the same 'law of chastity'(basically no non married sex)this poses a unique challenge. Mormons of course do not accept gay marriage. This denial of the right to marry out of desire has been the storm that has sent many lds gay men into depression, suicide and misguided straight marriages. At its most extreme the church sponsored some pretty immoral aversion therapies as well. Now, pressured by secular society and from the liberal members within it is repackaging its gay offering but it is still underpinned by a 'love the sinner hate the sin' ethos. The church is making huge media steps and baby equality steps with regards homosexuality. I suspect we will need the old hardliners to die before we see meaningful change but the groundwork is starting.

With regards to shunning it is not too formal (unless you are a vocal apostate) and in many ways the attempt to reclaim 'lost sheep' wouldnt work if shunning was encouraged. In effect some members may unofficially shun and family members are still capable of crazy things so you will always find horror stories.

56

A Mormon becomes a JW in the Feb 2013 Watchtower...

by cedars in

glancing through the feb 2013 "public" watchtower edition, an interesting article appears on page 8.. here is the pdf download link.... http://www.jw.org/download/?fileformat=pdf&issue=20130201&output=html&pub=wp&langwritten=e&option=trgchlzrqvnyvrxf&txtcmslang=e.

it's interesting how, in the story, the young man's jw aunt and uncle switch him from mormonism to the jw faith using third-party material (the nov 8, 1995 awake!

article), and he ends up becoming a jw after confirming on the official mormon website that the claims in the awake!

Qcmbr

Cold Steel - non of the people leaving cite the US as any part of the decision. People are leaving because the church lied about certain key historical things, it obfuscated important contextual facts, it changed doctrine and ritual that it claimed was unchangeable, it failed every scientific challenge, it has been unable to replicate the supposed miracles of Jesus and perhaps the most telling of all - it has proven time and again that wealth and money are its unspoken aim. Your (!) Church has spent more money by several orders of magnitude on setting up businesses than it ever has on charitable works.

By their fruits....

59

What Do Mormons Really Believe? RE: The Nov. 8, 1995 Awake Magazine

by D_Rolling_Kearney in

i am a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, and i have written a heavily-documented response to the official magazine of the jehovah's witnesses, awake!, that claims to teach what we believe.

i saw an article from last year's watchtower about a guy who had barely been mormon for very long, and obviously did not know what we believe, who was given this magazine by jw's to show him "the truth.

" he claims to have proven to himself that it was true from information on the lds church's website.

Qcmbr

Mormonism is , like all Abrahamic religions, patriarchal. Unlike other religions Mormonism reinforces the male dominance by redefining god as an exalted man married to one or more exalted but scripturally silent women. The Priesthood , the authority to act for and on behalf of god and expressed by ritual, has settled into a male preserve ( though the early church - meaning its members - experimented with female Priesthood expression vestiges of which are preserved in the temple wording and ritual.) All religion is written in gobbleydegook (e.g. Nicene creed!) and mormon pamphlets are no exception. What you read is the result of a very careful 'correlated' message which presents 'milk before meat'. It is impossible to make a rational evaluation of Mormonism via its published proselyting material. This is acknowledged and encouraged by the church which insists that conversion is a spiritual (I.e. emotional) experience not requiring all the facts.

The missionaries are breaking mission rules if they visit a single lady and are male and vice versa without a chaperone. Missionary work is no different to any other high pressure sale scenario. Those missionaries have a quota, they are certain you need their product and they will use every means their 19 year old morality will stretch to to make the sale. They are as emotionally and psychologically trapped as they hope you will be and by and large they love what they are doing.

59

What Do Mormons Really Believe? RE: The Nov. 8, 1995 Awake Magazine

by D_Rolling_Kearney in

i am a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, and i have written a heavily-documented response to the official magazine of the jehovah's witnesses, awake!, that claims to teach what we believe.

i saw an article from last year's watchtower about a guy who had barely been mormon for very long, and obviously did not know what we believe, who was given this magazine by jw's to show him "the truth.

" he claims to have proven to himself that it was true from information on the lds church's website.

Qcmbr

If you look at both religions in a doctrinal way then it's obvious that they have many differences (just as all denominations have) and if the agenda is to create clear water to justify why one is superior than the other in this or that then it can be presented as such. The opposite is also true, we can find common themes, ideas and techniques that both share - when Mormon missionaries are proselyting they are trained to build upon 'common beliefs'. In shared experience is understanding forged. I will forever be in debt to the people on this board for opening my eyes to the common experiences, for deconstructing the 'them' and 'us' mentality that religion requires and fosters. When a JW doubts they must confront the same fears and questions that a Mormon (or any religionist) does. All people are afraid to lose family and/or friends,worry they are wrong and have angered the heavens, find it emotionally exhausting to fight against a culture they are embedded in and all have to come to terms with redefining who they are when for so long they allowed others to do that for them.

When I was doubting it was watching others doubt that gave me the courage to reject a god who had taken over my every waking thought. Those of us who made it out the other side are now survivors with joint stories trying our best to help those still caught in the mental and physical nets of religion. It doesnt matter who the slave owner was or what make of leg irons they used - slavery still tastes the same.

6

UK Television viewers please.

by quellycatface in

jw
friends

have any of you ever watched the tv programme "derek" on channel 4?.

it is quite amazingly good.

funny, sad and poignant all at the same time.. my 14yr old son got me watching it.. .

Qcmbr

Yes one of my favourite series. Makes my eyes leaky.

56

A Mormon becomes a JW in the Feb 2013 Watchtower...

by cedars in

glancing through the feb 2013 "public" watchtower edition, an interesting article appears on page 8.. here is the pdf download link.... http://www.jw.org/download/?fileformat=pdf&issue=20130201&output=html&pub=wp&langwritten=e&option=trgchlzrqvnyvrxf&txtcmslang=e.

it's interesting how, in the story, the young man's jw aunt and uncle switch him from mormonism to the jw faith using third-party material (the nov 8, 1995 awake!

article), and he ends up becoming a jw after confirming on the official mormon website that the claims in the awake!

Qcmbr

D rolling I am a mormon (yes they still havent processed my resignation). I am in contact with many ex-mormons and many leaving but active members. If you insist on claiming im lying I will post the stuff both you and cold steel do not want to hear. The lds church is being decimated in the uk (since I last posted on this subject I have had a couple leave and their son come and borrow borrow Quinn's book on magic in the early church. I have had 2 other members express doubts about the 'truth' but saying that the church is still good and another internet contact say she's had to change her stance though she still has a testimony of god. The church cannot suffer this level of disaffection as it doesnt baptise enough. In the time my local church has lost 25 core members it has baptised 3 and retained 2. The branch up the road has had 3 core members leave in the last year.of those who left and I have talked -about 15 - 10 said they left because of specific historical things , 2 said they left to live life and 3 didnt agree with current doctrine regarding homosexuality.

Do the research, man up and face the facts. The church we both love and gave our souls to is not the truth. It hurts like hell but dressing up like a baker in a huge fancy building learning masonic symbols is rank silliness. Endless meetings, empty prayers, pretending to heal while knowing a real miracle would make national news, reading stories about huge civilisations for whom there is no evidence and plenty of counter evidence, giving money to a corporation who donate about 1% to actual good works and pay the top leaders vast amounts and studying material that is regularly disproved by science - this is the life we try to pretend is the truth. As someone who is not your enemy I beg you to let go the emotion and start asking the real, tough questions.

176

JW refuses to provide wedding stationery to Gay couple

by KateWild in

i was outraged at this and had to post it.. http://jehovahswitnessreport.com/blog/jw-refuses-to-provide-wedding-stationery-to-gay-couple.

i think she is a hypocrite and i bet she sells her invites to fornicators, or does she ask them if they are having sex before marrige, before she takes their money?.

i was never like this when i was a jw, it's even more disturbing that she is going to ask her elders what to do.

Qcmbr

You have a right to trade only because society grants it. Trade is denominated in legal tender, it is regulated by public laws and it is supported by public infrastructure. Those same laws have provided protection from discrimination. If you wish to trade under the protection of a legal system you dont get to pick and choose which laws you like.

59

What Do Mormons Really Believe? RE: The Nov. 8, 1995 Awake Magazine

by D_Rolling_Kearney in

i am a member of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints, and i have written a heavily-documented response to the official magazine of the jehovah's witnesses, awake!, that claims to teach what we believe.

i saw an article from last year's watchtower about a guy who had barely been mormon for very long, and obviously did not know what we believe, who was given this magazine by jw's to show him "the truth.

" he claims to have proven to himself that it was true from information on the lds church's website.

Qcmbr

..what can we offer you in return ;)

16

Crap trying to reason with a Mormon He is asking about the Sabath

by Found Sheep in

nice guy i worked with him for about a year.

he is mormon but every time we were in a place to talk he brought up religion, cult thinking.... he needs to come clean i think.... ripe for the vine of non cult thinking but not an ex-jw so i don't have the upper hand?

is there a coc for mormons?

Qcmbr

Questions not challenges is my advice. There is no CoC but online the mormons are being dismantled on every front. The supposed strength of a mormon, their testimony, is the real weakness. Ask your work colleague how he 'knows' it(mormonism) is true. He will respond with either experiences and or feelings. Ask if before the 'experience' did he know. Ask why they arent just feelings and why they can only be supernatural. Ask if he's ever felt something that turned out wrong (~100% of faithful mormons will lie - the reality is mormons regularly have promptings that turn out plain wrong all the time - about as often as regular people goof up when they trust their gut). Keep pressing the spiritual side and point out how normal the so called special experiences are. Believing mormons really think they live in a spiritual magic world where blessings really cure the incurable , where mystic messages materialise in their brains to tell them where to work or what to say and where their god speaks via good feelings or by causing themto feel all confused. Ask him to relate the last time he was told by the spirit to not do something. Rinse and repeat. Only by confronting the mormon programming that they are somehow living in a Harry Potter special world and continually pointing out that they really arent can you deprogramme them at a fundamental level.

82

Religion VS Atheism and the decline of ethics and morals

by EndofMysteries in

being back in college after leaving the borg, one of the required classes for a degree at my college is ethics.

after learning a few things, i am curious where morality and ethics is heading for the future of humanity.

i wish i could find the source again, but several weeks ago i recalled reading a transcript of a very old document that talked about when christianity was being spread in europe, it brought civility and community.

Qcmbr

The two world wars were as immoral and depraved as you can get.

I'm excited that people are finding their voices via the internet and we are seeing freedom and authenticity growing. The most heartening thing for me is the number of people demanding morally supportable choices (like looking after the planet, desiring freedom of speech, wanting to let people choose their own sexual behaviour etc) These are exciting times, I have a lot of hope.