Posts by myelaine

229

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP in

theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).. now since xians always says jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.. there are 613 laws in the torah, jewish rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot.

im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ?

then again there were many messiahs, every king and priest of israel and judea was a messiah.

myelaine

dear mP...

the point of mark 2:6-7 is that the jews knew only God could forgive sins. their argument wasn't about the fact that Jesus hadn't died and been resurrected yet to forgive sins.

Jesus had the authority to forgive sins because He WAS God in the flesh not because He died and was resurrected.

In Christ (after His death and resurrection) there is no distinction between jew and gentile because at His death, for the jew, His shed blood was the final sacrifice for the covering over of sins (any one of the 613 that weren't observed to the letter) to gain the forgiveness of God. For gentiles (without the 613 laws) His shed blood covered over all sins that were committed against man and God. (without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin hebrews 9:22)

whether jew or gentile, sins are not forgiven until they are covered over. that is why in the jewish system you brought a sacrifice to God for forgiveness. psalm 32:1-2

Jesus, by forgiving the sins of both the jews and the gentiles who believed in Him fulfilled God's side of the law(without doing away with one jot or tittle of the jewish law). That is why I quoted mark 2:6-7 "only God can forgive sins"...that is how Jesus fulfilled or put into action the law. In a court of law it is one against another but the law isn't fulfilled or enacted until the judge judges and calls down the sentence.

love michelle

229

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP in

theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).. now since xians always says jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.. there are 613 laws in the torah, jewish rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot.

im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ?

then again there were many messiahs, every king and priest of israel and judea was a messiah.

myelaine

dear mP...

you are right, the law of moses does not name Jesus Christ. But Jesus did fulfil the law. you will have to understand the law to see this however.

jews are judged by their law (the law of moses) and that is WHY that law will stand until all things are accomplished...at the final judgement jews will be judged by their law. (romans 2:12)

gentiles that do by nature what is contained in the law aare said to be a law unto themselves. Now not having the law they would even know about all 613 jewish laws but they would, by nature, understand what being just is and what mercy is and what being moral etc (this scripture doesn't speak about every gentile, only the ones who do do by nature...) (romans 2:14-16)

regardless of the law of moses on the part of the jews or any instinctive or internal natural law keeping on the part of the gentiles...paul goes on to say that both jews and gentiles have been confined under sin. (romans 3:9-18)

when a person sins those sins are held against you - stacked up. it is my understanding that if you are a jew then you are judged according to the law of moses there is provision that those sins against another are brought out into the open and the jew makes atonement to the individual(s) that were sinnned against...but... those sins are still stacked up and they still have to be covered over and forgiven by God and a sacrifice presented to Him.

gentiles without the law have no such provision - those sins remain stacked against them. there is nothing that will get rid of them or cover over them or remove them...regardless of how regularily you make atonement and ask forgiveness of the individual(s) you have sinned against.

the gentile will be judged by God according to all those sins that have not been covered over or removed...that means every single sin you ever committed! throughout the years that stack can get awfully big. (romans 2:12)

however the Good News is - God the Father sent His Son, Jesus, to pay the penalty for those sins for ANYONE who would accept that free gift...the blood sacrifice that would cover over all those sins so that those sins would be forgiven by God in a similar manner as that in the jewish sacrifice that covers over their sins.

Remember the priests who caught a woman in adultery? they had a stack of sins that hadn't been covered over and forgiven by God yet (john 8:1-9)

***Jesus said unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins (naham 1:6)and Jesus said you must repent and believe to be saved...saved from what? God's wrath against sin in the judgement (romans 2:5)***

How did Jesus fulfill the law? mark 2:6-7

love michelle

229

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP in

theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).. now since xians always says jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.. there are 613 laws in the torah, jewish rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot.

im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ?

then again there were many messiahs, every king and priest of israel and judea was a messiah.

myelaine

dear mP...

it doesn't matter what book you want to read the entire story is never revealed in a synopsis on the dust jacket. The entire history of God's dealings with man and the outworking of HIS plan are not contained in a single scripture.

well...if you surrender this one does...john14:6

love michelle

229

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP in

theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).. now since xians always says jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.. there are 613 laws in the torah, jewish rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot.

im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ?

then again there were many messiahs, every king and priest of israel and judea was a messiah.

myelaine

dear mP...

the law and the prophets ANTICIPATED...1 peter 1:11...the prophets of GOD spoke but didn't know exactly how everything was to "unfold" yet you require a single scripture

at the risk of being a bore...mark 1:11

love michelle

229

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP in

theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).. now since xians always says jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.. there are 613 laws in the torah, jewish rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot.

im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ?

then again there were many messiahs, every king and priest of israel and judea was a messiah.

myelaine

dear mP...

the entire law code is man's interpretation of what was to be "done" in order to stand before a holy God. Jesus came and fulfilled God's interpretation of what is to be "done" in order to stand before a holy God. Thus fulfilling God's law. Jesus came to do the will of His Father in heaven NOT the will of the priests who interpreted the law. He took the strict observance of the ceramonial "law" requirements for personal sin (ie. the passover lamb) and tempered it with the mercy that ought to be shown towards those who don't observe the strict "moral" code envisioned in the law of moses. matthew 23:23

love michelle

229

How exactly did Jesus fulfill the law NOT the prophecies.

by mP in

theres a clear difference between prophecies (predictions of future events) and laws(stuff you should and shouldnt do).. now since xians always says jesus fullfilled the law, how does one fullfill a bunch of requirements like dont murder, dont worship idols, shave your beard like this etc.. there are 613 laws in the torah, jewish rabbis have done all the hard work and we have a nice list on wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot.

im confused which of those some how select a unique individual to be the unique messiah ?

then again there were many messiahs, every king and priest of israel and judea was a messiah.

myelaine

dear Phizzy...

you said: "Interesting, and revealing, that Paul had no moral compass without rules and regulations spelling out to him what is right and wrong."...

I wonder why you think this. It is argued that most people Do have a moral compass, isn't it? Yes, it is. The fact is that accepting Jesus as your personal saviour isn't about suddenly aquiring a moral compass. It isn't this way for me or you or anyone. It isn't about OUR morals. It is about perfect holiness...Jesus magnified the law...He was perfectly HOLY before God the Father.

God is completely holy and it is written that people need to be holy in order to enter in before Him or into His presense in heaven. In the garden A&E were able to walk with God because until they actually DID sin by being disobedient they walked in holiness...all God ever desired of His human creation. After the fall from holiness before God, there was the expulsion from His direct presense for all the offspring. None walked in perfect holiness.

Jesus fulfilled the law in that He alone, unlike the first Adam, was able to and did walk in perfect holiness before God. The law was man's way of interpreting from God to man WHAT perfect holiness is. Even though it is flawed in that it does prescribe what outward holiness was to "look" like it may not reflect what the inward moral compass actually did. Remember that unless someone actually disclosed that their child was not obeying the law there was no consequence to dis-obeying it. Sure we can look back now and say this was the law...how barberac...and we can site the pharisees as an example that the law was followed (they wanted to stone the adultress)...but the pharisees were an extreme example of obeying the law without mercy. Jesus even said that they would obey the law to the letter but they would forget mercy...He said this to the law keepers, not to everyone congregated.

We are seperated from God because of our personal sin and because of His wrath against sin...God is opposed to sin and we are sinners. The gospel states that while we were still sinners the Father sent His Son to pay the penalty for those sins...not counting those sins against us but against His Son in our stead. Jesus "owned" the required perfection in order to "stand" before Him...only Jesus can stand before Him in righteousness. Anyone who doesn't count this as a gift of love from a God who wants to redeem is said to be without God and without hope in the world and death and the wrath of God against sin is still held against them. 2 corinthians 5:11-12

Jesus was the perfect man who walked in holiness before God without blemish inside AND out. That is how He fulfilled God's law and man's interpretation of HOW God wanted His creation to walk before Him. No one can stand before the holy God without the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ...(even if they treat His brothers well Tammy because that makes it about YOUR OWN righteousness)...God does not change.

love michelle

21

Apocripha -What is it good for?

by EdenOne in

jw
friends

besides the usual suspects that appear on some bibles (1 and 2 maccabeans, wisdom, judith) what are some other apocripha books that exist out there?

i mean besides the so called gnostic gospels.

why have they been ruled out from the cannon?

myelaine

dear Terry...

you said: "It was begun by the apostate MARCION who tossed out the Old Testament Jehovah and substituted the Pauline concept of merciful Jesus."...

indeed...God said: "but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments." exodus 20:6

AND THEN He sent His beloved Son and showed His mercy to all mankind who WOULD love Him and keep His commands. john 3:16-18

of course one must turn to the Light while it shines..."Then Jesus said to them, “A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.

But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:

“Lord, who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the L ord been revealed?” john 12:35-38

or you can not believe..."Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:

“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.” john 12:39-40

there was a time that one was at the mercy of the "gods/judges" of this system...if no one saw the offense?...now however...Jesus magnifies the law to everyone who God has shown mercy to...ie: everyone who has heard the gospel of salvation. He who reads hearts and minds judges..."For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries...Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The L ord will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." hebrews 26-31 <cf. paul<

love michelle

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