dear Terry...
fortunately satan wasn't as clever as you.
james 1:22-24
love michelle
myelaine
JoinedPosts by myelaine
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9
IS THIS A STUPID QUESTION?
by Terry inthe divine plan of the ages and the sacred secret of christ depends on the shedding of jesus' blood for mankind.. here is a question of logic which baffles me.. what if everybody who heard jesus preach thought it was nice?
what if they hadn't been threatened and merely shrugged and walked away or joined his merry band of disciples?.
he'd not have made religious enemies with the jews.
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myelaine
((hugs))
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Jesus: DEMI-GOD? In a pagan Roman Empire, it was only natural!
by Terry inwhen you and i were born we started absorbing the beliefs and culture surrounding us.
(the word for this is: ethos.).
as we grew older we absorbed the beliefs and cultures we experienced among our friends.
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myelaine
dear designs...
I've been on this forum long enough to see that you are not real zealous for God and you are not real zealous for people to repent and turn to Him. I'm not surprized that you can't find any common ground with paul...or john the baptist or any of the OT prophets that called for repentance...or God Himself for that matter.
if king david was jewish then a large part of actually understanding judaism was understanding that God wanted people to turn to Him in everything...
psalm 40:1-8
love michelle
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Jesus: DEMI-GOD? In a pagan Roman Empire, it was only natural!
by Terry inwhen you and i were born we started absorbing the beliefs and culture surrounding us.
(the word for this is: ethos.).
as we grew older we absorbed the beliefs and cultures we experienced among our friends.
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myelaine
There really is only one Jesus. The fact that people have formed conclusions based on incomplete information doesn't mean there are actually many Jesus'.
To use the illustration of the blind men and the elephant (and take it further) if you weren't blind you could see that there was only that one elephant. (matt. 20:29-34)
"It solved a mystery. A great peace came over me." ~ Terry ...if you find "relief" in blindness...
The NT writers did describe the real Jesus in different ways ie: the Lamb, the Babe in a manger, the King, the Saviour, the Bread from heaven, the Truth, and the Son of God; making it easier (I think) to relate to Him from wherever you are...so to speak.
But there is only one complete Jesus. The Lord who Paul met on the road to damascus.
Paul was zealous for judaisim and persecuted the early church (gal. 1:13-14). He went so far as to stand back and allow people to stone stephan. This action (or non-action) made him responsible for his murder under judaisim's law. Under the law (which he WAS zealous for) he would have to forfeit his own life to be "right" before HIS God. (gal. 2:19) The ONLY one who could forgive THIS jewish man was God Himself. (dan. 9:9-10; mark 2:7; ex. 23:13; joel 2:32)
After meeting the real Jesus on the road to damascus he received (gal 1:12) the forgiveness of HIS God (gal. 2:20).
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the book of galatians tells us that part of the gospel paul preached WAS the judaic law. Specifically he taught HOW Jesus personally fulfilled the Holy Festivals on the jewish calendar. I say this because the jewish christians who came after paul and preached to the gentile christians were able to turn them to following some of the requirements of the law (gal. 4:9-11). Like paul said, these judaizers weren't preaching a different gospel, (gal. 1:6-7) they were distorting what he had already taught by introducting works/requirements of the law instead of grace in Christ. (from freedom to bondage...james 2:10)
What paul taught was that Jesus already fulfilled the first jewish Holy Festivals. This was the Christ foundation he built on (gal 2:18)...this is how/why he lived by faith!
paul saw how Jesus fulfilled the ONLY faith he was personally zealous for. He preached this same (fundimentalist) gospel in every gentile church he planted. we also know this because he warned his congregation that regardless of WHO came around preaching, if they preached another gospel...they were wrong and their message was accursed. (gal. 1:8-9)...clarity requires that every church had the same foundational message so that travellers from one church to another would receive the same teaching.
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"the annual festival or feast in hebrew is a "set time" or 'appointed time" (heb. #2287/2283,2328)
a "holy convocation" or "sacred assembly" carries the meaning of rehearsal or recital (heb. #4744/7121,7122)
a feast appointed by God as rehearsals are for the purpose of revealing the Messiah (col. 2:16-17) and completeing God's overall plan."
* festivals Jesus already personally fulfilled (ex. 23:14; luke 22:19-20; 1 cor. 11:23-25)
- passover/unleavened bread
- first fruits
- pentecost
* festivals Jesus will fulfill when the jews are gathered into the presence of the Lord God.
- trumpets
- day of atonement
- tabernacles
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love michelle
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10
Jesus: DEMI-GOD? In a pagan Roman Empire, it was only natural!
by Terry inwhen you and i were born we started absorbing the beliefs and culture surrounding us.
(the word for this is: ethos.).
as we grew older we absorbed the beliefs and cultures we experienced among our friends.
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myelaine
Yes! It IS cool the way God waited until man was able to begin to understand, through philosophical means, roles He was meant to fulfill. With the Holy Spirit's illumination of the (fundamentalist) mind "stayed" on God...perfect.
Galatians 4:4
:)
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I'm not trying to brag, but being an EXJW is awesome!!! Status Update-
by Coffee House Girl inhello jwn!
i don't get to check in here or comment as often as i would like because i have been working so hard at school...but i just have to share my news in hopes that newbees can see that taking the leap to enroll in higher education is worth it-.
i am graduating this spring with a bachelor degree in art history, minor anthropology...many people (including nonjw's have given me flack for choosing a "dead end" career path) but since leaving the watchtower organization's group-think mentality and "leaning on my own understanding" instead... i decided to say fuck everyone else's opinion...i am going to pursue my passion to work in a museum as a curator or archivist-.
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myelaine
Congratulations on your scholarship and job offer when you complete your studies!!
Good for you :)
xo
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41
Hell or no hell
by never a jw inabout a year ago i had an exchange of emails with an elder of a congregation where all my jw relatives attend.
i asked him all kinds of questions regarding blood, 607, shunning, evolution, higher education.
as anticipated, he either had no answer or provided an evasive one.
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myelaine
when you state: " But Babylon is not a person or a group of persons that individually or collectively experience personal pain and anguish. Rather Babylon represents a vast social, economic and religious system." ....certainly we can draw striking similarities can't we?
really...I've compared apples to apples...point being, where and how do you draw the line between actual and symbolic when confronted with these two "apples"?
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41
Hell or no hell
by never a jw inabout a year ago i had an exchange of emails with an elder of a congregation where all my jw relatives attend.
i asked him all kinds of questions regarding blood, 607, shunning, evolution, higher education.
as anticipated, he either had no answer or provided an evasive one.
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myelaine
dear Vanderhoven...
you said: "But Babylon is not a person or a group of persons that individually or collectively experience personal pain and anguish. Rather Babylon represents a vast social, economic and religious system."...
the WTBTS is a global social, religious system. Are you saying that none of the people exposed to "her" individually or collectively experience personal pain and anguish? That's the thing...when people HAVE emotional ties they get hurt and sometimes that hurt manifests as a physical reality. And (if you would) consider in the case of babylon that there are two beings behind the whole thing according to the workings of satan...then doesn't it stand to reason that when God passes judgement on them then that "torment" would manifest as a physical reality?
love michelle
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41
Hell or no hell
by never a jw inabout a year ago i had an exchange of emails with an elder of a congregation where all my jw relatives attend.
i asked him all kinds of questions regarding blood, 607, shunning, evolution, higher education.
as anticipated, he either had no answer or provided an evasive one.
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myelaine
dear Vanderhoven...
Based on your response I suspected you hadn't really thought about it too hard. I guess I had hoped if it IS something you truly believe, given the opportunity to defend your presupposition, you'd at least try... I noticed that in the peek at your book that you've given us you site the JW's as being erroneous in their method of coming to a biblical interpretation and then quickly move on as if somehow their error brings validity to your own interpretation. I may be wrong in my perception of your writing but, that's how I see it. You might notice that with the JW method and your method of interpreting hell you both have the error of dismissing certain scriptural passages that don't jive with your presupposition AND reference your own feelings on the subject ie: "the idea of a loving God isn't consistant with torturing individuals forever". That is indeed true and in fact scripture doesn't say God is going to torture people forever. God isn't going to be in hell to torture anyone. IN CONTEXT, the everlasting fire of hell is meant for everlasting spirits -satan and his angels- that there are humans consigned there as well isn't because of God who wants to torture them...it is because, given the opportunity, they didn't choose the means of escape fully and completely broadcast by Jesus Christ. You, yourself came to "extra-biblical" (as you call it) interpretation by the same means...by not examining ALL revealed scripture to reach your conclusion. For instance, how many times did you have to ignore specific statements by Jesus as to the duration and veracity of the actual place called hell? Isn't what He says about it worth more of your consideration? Furthermore, what method do you use when confronted with certain scriptures contrasting everlasting life with everlasting damnation? how do you conclude that one everlasting is actual and one isn't? I'm thinking that not only are you deceiving yourself with your excursion into biblical interpretation, but you're intentions are to publish a book...if you'd like to be of benefit to those who are misled...exactly how "helpful" do you think you'll be by presenting slipshod interpretation?(I'm kinda sorry if you're offended by what I've said but, frankly, my concern is more for the people who may be inclined to choose your opinion over dealing with what Jesus has to say...the implication being: NOT fully believing Him) love michelle
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41
Hell or no hell
by never a jw inabout a year ago i had an exchange of emails with an elder of a congregation where all my jw relatives attend.
i asked him all kinds of questions regarding blood, 607, shunning, evolution, higher education.
as anticipated, he either had no answer or provided an evasive one.
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myelaine
dear Vanderhoven...
do you have any comments that might shed some light on the actual questions I've raised?
love michelle